I toast to LeelaqueenOdds and its creators. I raise my wine glass high and shout: Long live the queen. We have a queen!!

[lkaufman]

LeelaQueenOdds is amazingly strong. I always thought that being a queen ahead would be enough to win against god. But I am 1400 Elo and so far I have lost all my games (playing white at TC 15+3). It is amazing how Leela manages to create and exploit all kinds of vulnerabilities, while at the same time maintaining an impenetrable position herself.

Yes, I also used to think that somewhere around 1400 was enough to win with queen odds against any possible opponent in a serious game. Now it looks like you need to add nearly 1000 to that number, at least for Rapid chess and Lichess ratings. Note that Leela was only trained to play White, so you weren't even playing it at full strength!

I think 2400 is too much.
Orichess88 is a fide master with less than 2400 and he is strong enough to beat Leela Queen Odds at 2+3

His results in march are 22-17 with 2 draws.

Edit:I see you talk about lichess rating and not fide rating but I still think 2+3 is clearly faster than rapid time control and I do not believe his level at 2+3 is equivalent to 2400 at rapid time control in lichess.

2400 Lichess Rapid is about 2200 FIDE. Probably Orichess88 is roughly the same strength at 2+3 as a randomly chosen 2200 FIDE player would be at say 10'+5", plus he has much more experience than most playing the bots and seems to be good at it. I checked the database stats for Rapid games (Leela White) since the Feb 27 update, and for players in the 2400 to 2500 range it is 3 wins for each side, while for players in the 2200-2400 range it is overwhelming, more than a five to one win ratio (excluding draws) for Leela out of 188 games, so it looks to me like the break even rating for Rapid is somewhere in the 2400s. I've noticed that results vs the odds bots tend to correlate better with FIDE ratings than with Lichess ratings, so for example a 2400 Rapid player who is an FM might be a favorite but another 2400 Rapid player who is not even a CM might be an underdog.

[Father]

LeelaQueenOdds is amazingly strong. I always thought that being a queen ahead would be enough to win against god. But I am 1400 Elo and so far I have lost all my games (playing white at TC 15+3). It is amazing how Leela manages to create and exploit all kinds of vulnerabilities, while at the same time maintaining an impenetrable position herself.

Yes, I also used to think that somewhere around 1400 was enough to win with queen odds against any possible opponent in a serious game. Now it looks like you need to add nearly 1000 to that number, at least for Rapid chess and Lichess ratings. Note that Leela was only trained to play White, so you weren't even playing it at full strength!

I think 2400 is too much.
Orichess88 is a fide master with less than 2400 and he is strong enough to beat Leela Queen Odds at 2+3

His results in march are 22-17 with 2 draws.

Edit:I see you talk about lichess rating and not fide rating but I still think 2+3 is clearly faster than rapid time control and I do not believe his level at 2+3 is equivalent to 2400 at rapid time control in lichess.

2400 Lichess Rapid is about 2200 FIDE. Probably Orichess88 is roughly the same strength at 2+3 as a randomly chosen 2200 FIDE player would be at say 10'+5", plus he has much more experience than most playing the bots and seems to be good at it. I checked the database stats for Rapid games (Leela White) since the Feb 27 update, and for players in the 2400 to 2500 range it is 3 wins for each side, while for players in the 2200-2400 range it is overwhelming, more than a five to one win ratio (excluding draws) for Leela out of 188 games, so it looks to me like the break even rating for Rapid is somewhere in the 2400s. I've noticed that results vs the odds bots tend to correlate better with FIDE ratings than with Lichess ratings, so for example a 2400 Rapid player who is an FM might be a favorite but another 2400 Rapid player who is not even a CM might be an underdog.

Good afternoon, Mr. Larry Kafman. I've been studying the ranking table of the top 100 human players we've played against the robot, and I've noticed a trend of increasing Elo ratings in the middle and lower reaches of the table, rapidly moving toward a level no lower than 2000 Elo. So, given my status as a "simple street fighter," I thought about all those who aspire to be on the list but never make it, despite their effort and dedication. And I concluded that, just as with the top-ranked players on the ranking list, the weakest deserve their place, since the "weighted and consolidated score" is intrinsically qualitative in nature, not always objectively quantitative. Chess, like life, involves the protagonist of "history itself." So, I'm sure that increasing the number of players on the board from 100 to 1,000 will make Team Leela, the robot, the chess community, and the budget even bigger. I make this comment with the greatest respect.

[lkaufman]

Good afternoon, Mr. Larry Kafman. I've been studying the ranking table of the top 100 human players we've played against the robot, and I've noticed a trend of increasing Elo ratings in the middle and lower reaches of the table, rapidly moving toward a level no lower than 2000 Elo. So, given my status as a "simple street fighter," I thought about all those who aspire to be on the list but never make it, despite their effort and dedication. And I concluded that, just as with the top-ranked players on the ranking list, the weakest deserve their place, since the "weighted and consolidated score" is intrinsically qualitative in nature, not always objectively quantitative. Chess, like life, involves the protagonist of "history itself." So, I'm sure that increasing the number of players on the board from 100 to 1,000 will make Team Leela, the robot, the chess community, and the budget even bigger. I make this comment with the greatest respect.

There was a bug that was causing some games to be excluded, which has been fixed, all is well now we believe. As for the number of players included, it's not up to me, but I would point out that since some players start at 1800, it would not make sense for the leaderboard to extend down to 1800 or even close to it, so the present top 100 (a common choice for leaderboards), is at least reasonable as it does extend down to within 200 elo of that figure. You have to score a few points at least to get to 2000. It's actually pretty easy to reach 2000 unless you are unable to score more than an occasional draw even at slow Rapid (15'10").

[Father]

Good afternoon, Mr. Larry Kafman. I've been studying the ranking table of the top 100 human players we've played against the robot, and I've noticed a trend of increasing Elo ratings in the middle and lower reaches of the table, rapidly moving toward a level no lower than 2000 Elo. So, given my status as a "simple street fighter," I thought about all those who aspire to be on the list but never make it, despite their effort and dedication. And I concluded that, just as with the top-ranked players on the ranking list, the weakest deserve their place, since the "weighted and consolidated score" is intrinsically qualitative in nature, not always objectively quantitative. Chess, like life, involves the protagonist of "history itself." So, I'm sure that increasing the number of players on the board from 100 to 1,000 will make Team Leela, the robot, the chess community, and the budget even bigger. I make this comment with the greatest respect.

There was a bug that was causing some games to be excluded, which has been fixed, all is well now we believe. As for the number of players included, it's not up to me, but I would point out that since some players start at 1800, it would not make sense for the leaderboard to extend down to 1800 or even close to it, so the present top 100 (a common choice for leaderboards), is at least reasonable as it does extend down to within 200 elo of that figure. You have to score a few points at least to get to 2000. It's actually pretty easy to reach 2000 unless you are unable to score more than an occasional draw even at slow Rapid (15'10").

Good evening, Mr. Larry Kaufman. I was evaluating the synergy and direction that the wonderful LeelaQueenOdds project and Odds in general have been taking. I myself find myself surprised by the focus on "master moves" by "AI bots" and the "leaderboard." The system of updating the board every few minutes has catapulted the process and the enthusiasm of chess players. The world has been changing at a speed greater than that of light, that is, "at the speed of thought." "Science and faith" complement each other; "they are neither mutually exclusive nor opposed." I am a man of faith, and although my faith sometimes fails me, I cling to it in order to fly. I know that the seats at the dinner that has been served for the 20 strongest diners in the world will sooner rather than later be occupied by those 20 comets of light that illuminate our skies. From the "Mozart" of chess to many other flamingos, I hope, I have hope, and I have faith, that soon they will be here playing against LeelaQueenOdds…

[lkaufman]

Good evening, Mr. Larry Kaufman. I was evaluating the synergy and direction that the wonderful LeelaQueenOdds project and Odds in general have been taking. I myself find myself surprised by the focus on "master moves" by "AI bots" and the "leaderboard." The system of updating the board every few minutes has catapulted the process and the enthusiasm of chess players. The world has been changing at a speed greater than that of light, that is, "at the speed of thought." "Science and faith" complement each other; "they are neither mutually exclusive nor opposed." I am a man of faith, and although my faith sometimes fails me, I cling to it in order to fly. I know that the seats at the dinner that has been served for the 20 strongest diners in the world will sooner rather than later be occupied by those 20 comets of light that illuminate our skies. From the "Mozart" of chess to many other flamingos, I hope, I have hope, and I have faith, that soon they will be here playing against LeelaQueenOdds…

Well, a big step in that direction happened today, with a video by IM Levy Rozman, the most popular chess streamer I believe, about the 5 to 0 victory of Leela Queen Odds from the GM in blitz. It resulted in a flood of games, peaking at 36 games at once (the limit for the server now). One new GM ("former_player") has already leaped to third place on the leaderboard in a few hours! It is likely that Levy will play against the bot himself soon, which should generate even more interest. So far, since the Feb. 27 upgrade, the bot has a positive score (93 to 92 plus some draws) at 3'2" against players rated over 2600 Lichess blitz, which is a typical rating for a "par" IM. So I think it is fair to say that it is upper IM level at this time control. Which is really incredible. Plus another upgrade may be coming soon!

[Uri Blass]

Good evening, Mr. Larry Kaufman. I was evaluating the synergy and direction that the wonderful LeelaQueenOdds project and Odds in general have been taking. I myself find myself surprised by the focus on "master moves" by "AI bots" and the "leaderboard." The system of updating the board every few minutes has catapulted the process and the enthusiasm of chess players. The world has been changing at a speed greater than that of light, that is, "at the speed of thought." "Science and faith" complement each other; "they are neither mutually exclusive nor opposed." I am a man of faith, and although my faith sometimes fails me, I cling to it in order to fly. I know that the seats at the dinner that has been served for the 20 strongest diners in the world will sooner rather than later be occupied by those 20 comets of light that illuminate our skies. From the "Mozart" of chess to many other flamingos, I hope, I have hope, and I have faith, that soon they will be here playing against LeelaQueenOdds…

Well, a big step in that direction happened today, with a video by IM Levy Rozman, the most popular chess streamer I believe, about the 5 to 0 victory of Leela Queen Odds from the GM in blitz. It resulted in a flood of games, peaking at 36 games at once (the limit for the server now). One new GM ("former_player") has already leaped to third place on the leaderboard in a few hours! It is likely that Levy will play against the bot himself soon, which should generate even more interest. So far, since the Feb. 27 upgrade, the bot has a positive score (93 to 92 plus some draws) at 3'2" against players rated over 2600 Lichess blitz, which is a typical rating for a "par" IM. So I think it is fair to say that it is upper IM level at this time control. Which is really incredible. Plus another upgrade may be coming soon!

I think that a new update can help mainly in games with no increment.

Watching the games of LeelaQueenOdds against the best players at 1+0 I see a lot of blunders of not considering the opponent time.

For example here the bot blundered by allowing a draw by repetition when the oppoent had only 15.2 seconds on the clock.
The correct strategy is not to allow repetition and to push f6 in the last move to avoid the 50 move rule.

If the opponent start premoving then some stupid sacrifice may practically win and I think no human opponent can draw at 1+0.


https://lichess.org/Dw8VcdAH#204

Here the bot blundered by draw by repetition when every different move probably could win on time because the opponent had 0 seconds on the clock in the final position.
https://lichess.org/6RdlThrA#87

[lkaufman]

Now that "Former_Player" has soared to second place on the leaderboard, does anyone know who he is? It says he is a GM who is apparently primarily interested in chess960 now, and quite good at it. He has been a member for 9 years so not a kid. He is scoring a bit under 60% at 3'2" at queen odds (Leela White).

[Father]

Now that "Former_Player" has soared to second place on the leaderboard, does anyone know who he is? It says he is a GM who is apparently primarily interested in chess960 now, and quite good at it. He has been a member for 9 years so not a kid. He is scoring a bit under 60% at 3'2" at queen odds (Leela White).

..I don't know...looking on Google I found this:

Amonato, Farrukh

[lkaufman]

Now that "Former_Player" has soared to second place on the leaderboard, does anyone know who he is? It says he is a GM who is apparently primarily interested in chess960 now, and quite good at it. He has been a member for 9 years so not a kid. He is scoring a bit under 60% at 3'2" at queen odds (Leela White).

..I don't know...looking on Google I found this:

Amonato, Farrukh

Thanks, that sounds plausible, he quit playing FIDE rated games five years ago (when the pandemic hit). He is quite strong, near 2600 FIDE and at 3000 on chess.com blitz. Amazing that LeelaQueenOdds can score about 40% against him at 3'2", if we have the right guy. Does it give any info to support the claim, or did the name just pop up without any other information?

[lkaufman]

Now that "Former_Player" has soared to second place on the leaderboard, does anyone know who he is? It says he is a GM who is apparently primarily interested in chess960 now, and quite good at it. He has been a member for 9 years so not a kid. He is scoring a bit under 60% at 3'2" at queen odds (Leela White).

..I don't know...looking on Google I found this:

Amonato, Farrukh

Now it looks like it is not him, but Andrei Deviatkin of Russia, FIDE 2442. He is a strong chess960 advocate. chess.com blitz 2865, in the GM range.