Modern or bad Philidor

[Henk]

Again played terrible game. Did not remember what to play in f4 variation of modern. So I played Nd7 ? and e5?? [Maybe better play 2. c6 after 1.g6 next time to make it more idiot proof for black. Or perhaps 2. Nc6 and after d5 Nb8]

[d] r1bqk1nr/pppn1pbp/3p2p1/4p3/3PPP2/2N2N2/PPP3PP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq e6 0 6

But it went even worse.


[d] r1bqk1nr/pppn2bp/5pp1/4p3/3PP2B/2N2N2/PPP3PP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 1 8

In this position I played g5 ?? But position was already very bad. I did not resign immediately but lost in 23 moves for opponent did not play perfect though he found Ng5, Qh5, Bc4, 0-0 etc.

[BeyondCritics]

I assume you are using stockfish or komodo to analyze and learn from your losses? I think this is your assignment.
Judging without an engine, on general grounds, i would say that e5 in principal does not deserve two exclamation marks. It is completely natural to fight for a foothold in the centre. The real sympton is f6. Why did you played the ugly move f6 and not simply Ne7?
After f6 you have lasting weaknesses, till the end of the game (not to speak of g5??), you don't do such a move lightly.

[Henk]

After Ne7 perhaps Nd5. Maybe even 1. .. e5 is a dangerous move for why would they have invented 1. c6 or 1.e6. Perhaps only good pawn in center is d4 for white or d5 for black. Unless formation is closed by d5 from white after e5.

[whereagles]

Without engines and looking just a few secs I don't like black much before e5. And e5 seems to have made matters worse.. probably around +0.80 by an engine.

Might try e6 instead, but I'd have to check. Plan is Ne7 and follow up with c5 later. Would like Nf6 but I think that runs into e5 by white.

As to f6 and g5.. well, the Nxg5 sac is pretty obvious. I did a similar move in an LTC game sometime ago.

[yurikvelo]

1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. f4 Nd7 5. Nf3

Code: Select all

Move - Games - Last - White win % - Draw %
5... c5     144   2014  51.4%   22.2%
5... e6     69    2013  46.4 %  24.6%
5... c6     57    2013  45.6 %  22.8%
5... a6     39    2015  59 %        28.2%
5... e5     29    2011  75.9%
5... b6     13    2007  76.9%     15.4 %   
5... Ngf6   6     2007  100%
5... Nh6    5     2005    20%    20%
5... Nb6    3     1999    33.3%  66.7%

e5 is very bold mistake, rarely played and 76% lost for black (out of 29 legal moves 21st according to Komodo)

Most people play c5, but Komodo give it very low eval compare to e6, c6, a6

e6, c6 played by humans have best chances for black and preferred by Komodo

D=24, 2 431 MN, Komodo 9.3
+0,46 5. ... c6 6.a4 a5 7.Be2 Nh6 8.h3 d5
+0,49 5. ... a6 6.a4 e6 7.a5 Ne7 8.Be2 0-0
+0,50 5. ... e6 6.Bd3 Ne7 7.0-0 0-0 8.a4 c5
+0,59 5. ... Nh6 6.h3 e6 7.Be3 Ng8 8.Bf2 Ne7
+0,63 5. ... h6 6.Be3 e6 7.Bd3 Ne7 8.Qd2 0-0
+0,63 5. ... Rb8 6.a4 e6 7.Bd3 Ne7 8.0-0 0-0
+0,66 5. ... h5 6.a4 Nh6 7.Bd3 a5 8.0-0 c6
+0,66 5. ... Nb8 6.Bd3 e6 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Nge7
+0,68 5. ... Nb6 6.Bd3 c6 7.f5 Nf6 8.a4 a5
+0,68 5. ... a5 6.Bd3 e6 7.0-0 Ne7 8.Qe2 0-0
+0,80 5. ... b6 6.Bc4 Nh6 7.0-0 0-0 8.h3 c6
+0,82 5. ... Ngf6 6.e5 Ng8 7.Bd3 Nb6 8.h3 dxe5
+0,82 5. ... Ndf6 6.Bd3 e6 7.Bd2 Ne7 8.Qe2 0-0
+0,88 5. ... Nf8 6.Bd3 c6 7.0-0 Ne6 8.Be3 Nf6
+0,91 5. ... c5 6.Be3 Qb6 7.Qd2 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qd8
+0,92 5. ... Bf6 6.Bd3 c5 7.d5 Nh6 8.0-0 Bg7
+0,95 5. ... Bh6 6.Bd3 Bg7 7.0-0 a6 8.Be3 Ngf6
+0,95 5. ... Bf8 6.Bd3 Bg7 7.0-0 a6 8.Be3 Ngf6
+0,98 5. ... Kf8 6.Be3 Nb6 7.a4 a5 8.Bd3 Nh6
+1,09 5. ... f6 6.f5 c6 7.Bd3 Nh6 8.a4 a5
+1,13 5. ... e5 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.fxe5 c6 8.Bf4 Qb6 <-------- +1.22 @ D=40
+1,39 5. ... f5 6.exf5 gxf5 7.Ng5 Ndf6 8.Bc4 Nh6
+1,45 5. ... d5 6.Nxd5 e6 7.Ne3 Ne7 8.Be2 0-0
+1,47 5. ... b5 6.Bxb5 Bb7 7.0-0 a6 8.Bc4 Nh6

[Henk]

Without engines and looking just a few secs I don't like black much before e5. And e5 seems to have made matters worse.. probably around +0.80 by an engine.

Might try e6 instead, but I'd have to check. Plan is Ne7 and follow up with c5 later. Would like Nf6 but I think that runs into e5 by white.

As to f6 and g5.. well, the Nxg5 sac is pretty obvious. I did a similar move in an LTC game sometime ago.

I did see Nxg5 but I underestimated Bc4. Also did not see that white could castle quickly. Actually I did not like the position at all after f6 Bh4. So I chose g5 to make it more interesting. I expected Qe8 might save the game for black (chasing queen way) and there might also be a chance that my opponent would not dare to sacrifice his knight.

At least I did not want to play ed4:

[Henk]

4 .. Nc6 is probably best followed by moves like Bg4 Bf3: d5 e6 Ne7. Some sort of Nimzo-Indian construction on the king side.

[Henk]

By the way this was the game (paper to winboard). Also my opponent in second half of the game was more busy with drinking beer in the bar than playing chess. So I sometimes had to call him after my move for I wanted to go home early.

[pgn]
[Event "Edited game"]
[Site "HP"]
[Date "2016.03.22"]
[Round "-"]
[White "-"]
[Black "-"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. f4 Nd7 5. Nf3 e5 6. fxe5 dxe5 7. Bg5 f6 8.
Bh4 g5 9. Nxg5 fxg5 10. Qh5+ Kf8 11. Bc4 Qe8 12. O-O+ Ngf6 13. Qxg5 h6 14.
Qg3 c6 15. Bxf6 Bxf6 16. dxe5 Qxe5 17. Rxf6+ Qxf6 18. Rf1 Qxf1+ 19. Kxf1
Ke8 20. e5 Rf8+ 21. Kg1 b5 22. Be2 Ke7 23. Qh4+ Ke6 24. Bg4+ Kxe5 25. Qe7+
Kf4 26. Bh3
*
[/pgn]

[yurikvelo]

D=29, 5 566 MN, Komodo 9.3
+0,39 5. ... a6 6.a4 e6 7.a5 Ne7 8.Be2 0-0 9.0-0 c5
+0,39 5. ... e6 6.h4 Nh6 7.h5 Qe7 8.hxg6 hxg6 9.Qd3 a6
+0,44 5. ... c6 6.Be2 b5 7.0-0 Nh6 8.h3 0-0 9.g4 f5

D=34/51, 10 120 MN, SF-2016.01.16
+0,33 5. ... e6 6.Be3 a6 7.e5 Ne7 8.h4 h5 9.Bd3 Nb6
+0,37 5. ... a6 6.Be3 e6 7.e5 Ne7 8.h4 h5 9.Bd3 Nb6
+0,64 5. ... c6 6.Be2 Ngf6 7.e5 Nd5 8.Nxd5 cxd5 9.0-0 0-0

[Henk]

So 4.Nd7 was not that bad. But I think I try 4.a6 next time.