Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

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Steve Maughan
Posts: 1328
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Florida, USA

Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by Steve Maughan »

This position came up in the CCRL Division match between Juggernaut and Eggnog:

[d]8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - -

Juggernaut played hxg5 and went on to lose :oops: . It turns out g4! wins for white. Stockfish finds this instantly with a score of +6. It's an interesting test position as many strong engines seem to struggle (Shredder and HIARCS). My question is: is this solved by search or evaluation? Of course, it's a combination of the two, but this seems extremely deep to solve on search alone, so I assume Stockfish's neural evaluation is doing some heavy lifting.

— Steve
http://www.chessprogramming.net - Juggernaut & Maverick Chess Engine
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Bart Weststrate
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:34 pm

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by Bart Weststrate »

I think it's NNUE eval.
StrongMalt NNUE:

Code: Select all

1 [+0.92]  1.hxg5 Nxg5  (0.01)
 5 [+0.90]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Bd2  (0.01)
 6 [+0.93]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Bd2 Ke6  (0.01)
 7 [+0.55]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Bd2 Ke6 3.Be1  (0.01)
 8 [+0.31]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Bd2 Nf7 3.Kf3 Ke6  (0.01)
 9 [+0.00]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Bd2 Nf7 3.Bc3  (0.01)
10 [+0.10]  1.hxg5  (0.02)
10 [+0.02]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Nf7 3.Kd3 Kd7 4.Ke3 Nd6 5.Kd3 Kc8  (0.02)
11 [+0.00]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Nf7 3.Ba5 Kc7 4.Bd2 Kd6  (0.02)
17 [+0.10]  1.g4  (0.04)
17 [+1.31]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Ba5 Kc7 7.Be1 Kd6 8.Kh1  (0.10)
18 [+1.41]  1.g4 hxg4  (0.10)
18 [+1.51]  1.g4  (0.12)
18 [+2.30]  1.g4 hxg4 2.h5 Nh6 3.Kf2 Ng8 4.Kg3 Nf6 5.h6 Nxe4+ 6.Kxg4 Ke6 7.Bb2 Nd6 8.Kxg5 Nf7+ 9.Kg6 Nxh6 10.Kxh6  (0.27)
19 [+2.40]  1.g4 Ke6  (0.28)
19 [+2.50]  1.g4  (0.30)
19 [+2.21]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Ba5 Kc7 7.Bd2 Kd7 8.Be3 e4 9.Kh2 Ke7 10.Bg5 Kf7 11.Kxh3 Kg6  (0.38)
20 [+2.31]  1.g4 Nh8  (0.41)
20 [+2.41]  1.g4  (0.42)
20 [+3.32]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Ng5 6.Ba5 Kc7 7.Bd2 Nf7 8.h7 Kd6 9.Kh2 Kd7 10.Bh6 Ke6 11.Bg7 Kf5 12.Kxh3  (0.66)
21 [+3.42]  1.g4 hxg4  (0.76)
21 [+3.52]  1.g4  (0.85)
21 [+3.33]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 Nh7 7.Kh2 e4 8.Kxh3 e3 9.Kg4 Ke6 10.Kf3 Nf6 11.Be1 Kf5 12.Bg3 Kg6 13.Bb8  (1.11)
22 [+3.43]  1.g4  (1.19)
22 [+4.49]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 Nh7 7.Kh2 Ng5 8.Ba5 Kc7 9.Bd2 Nf7 10.h7 Kd6 11.Kxh3 Ke7 12.Kg4 Kf8 13.Kf5 Kg7 14.Ke6 Nh8 15.Kxe5 Kxh7 16.Kd5  (1.92)
23 [+4.01]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd6 9.Kxh2 Ng4+ 10.Kh3 Nxh6 11.Bxh6 Kc7 12.Bg5 Kb8 13.Kg4 Ka8  (1.97)
24 [+4.11]  1.g4 Nh8  (2.09)
24 [+4.21]  1.g4  (2.20)
24 [+4.53]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 Nh7 7.Kh2 e4 8.Kxh3 e3 9.Kg4 Ke6 10.Kf3 Nf6 11.Be1 Kf5 12.Bg3 Kg6 13.Bb8 Nd7 14.Bf4 Nf8 15.Kxe3 Ne6 16.Bb8 Kxh6 17.Bxa7  (2.64)
25 [+4.53]  1.g4 hxg4  (3.04)
25 [+4.85]  1.g4  (3.64)
25 [+4.54]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Ng5 6.Ba5 Kc7 7.Bd2 Nf7 8.h7 Kd6 9.Kh2 e4 10.Bf4+ Ke6 11.Kxh3 e3 12.Bxe3 Ke5 13.Kg4 Kf6 14.Bxc5 Kg7 15.Bb4 Ne5+ 16.Kf5 Nxc4  (4.59)
26 [+4.64]  1.g4  (4.87)
26 [+5.09]  1.g4 Ke7 2.gxh5 Kf6 3.Kf2 Nd6 4.hxg5+ Kxg5 5.Bxe5 Nc8 6.Ke3 Kxh5 7.Kf4 Kg6 8.Bb8 Kf6 9.Kg4 Ke6 10.Kg5 Kd7 11.Kf5 Ne7+ 12.Kf6 Nc8 13.e5 Ke8 14.e6  (6.48)
27 [+5.19]  1.g4 Ke6  (6.68)
27 [+5.29]  1.g4  (6.90)
27 [+6.19]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 Nh7 7.Kh2 e4 8.Kxh3 e3 9.Kg4 Nf8 10.Kf3 Ke6 11.Kxe3 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Bd2 Ne6 14.Kd5 Nd4 15.Bf4 Kh7 16.Bb8 Kxh6 17.Bxa7  (9.77)
28 [+6.29]  1.g4 hxg4  (10.17)
28 [+6.40]  1.g4  (10.66)
28 [+6.43]  1.g4 Ke6  (14.01)
28 [+5.88]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 Nh7 7.Kh2 e4 8.Kxh3 e3 9.Kg4 Kd7 10.Kf4 e2 11.Kf3 e1=Q 12.Bxe1 Ke7 13.Bg3 Ng5+ 14.Kg4  (14.81)
29 [+5.98]  1.g4  (15.10)
29 [+6.55]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd7 9.Kxh2 Ke6 10.Ba5 bxa5 11.b6 axb6 12.a7 Ng4+ 13.Kg2 Nxh6 14.a8=Q Nf5 15.Qc8+ Kf6 16.Qd8+ Kg6 17.Qxb6+ Kg7 18.Qxc5 Ne3+ 19.Qxe3  (17.43)
30 [+6.65]  1.g4 hxg4  (17.70)
30 [+6.76]  1.g4  (18.18)
30 [+6.98]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 Ke6 7.Ba5 e4 8.Bxb6 axb6 9.h7 Nxh7 10.a7 e3 11.a8=Q Ke5 12.Qd5+ Kf4 13.Qf7+ Kg3 14.Qc7+ Kf3 15.Qxb6 e2 16.Qc6+ Ke3 17.Qxc5+ Kd3 18.Qd5+ Ke3 19.Qe5+ Kd3 20.b6 Ng5 21.Qd5+ Kc2 22.Qf5+ Kc1 23.Qxg5+ Kd1 24.Qd5+ Kc2  (22.50)
31 [+7.08]  1.g4 hxg4  (25.31)
31 [+7.18]  1.g4  (28.37)
31 [+6.90]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd7 9.Kxh2 Ke6 10.Ba5 bxa5 11.b6 axb6 12.Kg2 Kf7 13.a7 Kg6 14.a8=Q Kxh6 15.Qb7 Kg5 16.Qxb6 Ne4 17.Qd8+ Kf4 18.Qd3 Nf6 19.Qf3+ Kg5 20.Qc6 Kg6 21.Qxc5  (32.99)
32 [+7.00]  1.g4 hxg4  (33.60)
32 [+7.10]  1.g4  (34.38)
32 [+7.66]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd7 9.Kxh2 Ke6 10.Ba5 bxa5 11.b6 axb6 12.Kg2 Kf7 13.a7 Kg6 14.a8=Q Kxh6 15.Qb7 Kg5 16.Qxb6 Ne4 17.Kf3 Nd2+ 18.Ke2 Nxc4 19.Qd8+ Kh6 20.Qh8+ Kg6 21.Qg8+ Kh6 22.Qxc4 Kh7 23.Ke3 e4  (48.13)
33 [+7.76]  1.g4 hxg4  (56.06)
33 [+7.68]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd7 9.Kxh2 Ke6 10.Ba5 bxa5 11.b6 axb6 12.Kg2 Kf7 13.a7 Kg6 14.a8=Q Kxh6 15.Qb7 Kg6 16.Qxb6 Kf7 17.Qxc5 Nd7 18.Qxa5 Ke6 19.c5  (56.71)
34 [+7.27]  1.g4 Nh6  (58.35)
34 [+7.78]  1.g4  (69.13)
34 [+7.66]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd7 9.Kxh2 Ke6 10.Ba5 bxa5 11.b6 axb6 12.Kg2 Kf7 13.a7 Kg6 14.a8=Q Kxh6 15.Qb7 Kg6 16.Qxb6 Kf7 17.Qxc5 Nd7 18.Qxa5 Ke7 19.Qd5 Ke8 20.Kf3 Ke7 21.Qb5 Ke8 22.c5  (69.41)
35 [+7.76]  1.g4 hxg4  (72.51)
35 [+7.87]  1.g4  (88.00)
35 [+7.88]  1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Ng5 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg1 Nf6 6.Kh1 h2 7.Ba5 Kc7 8.Bd2 Kd7 9.Kxh2 Ke6 10.Ba5 bxa5 11.b6 axb6 12.Kg2 Kf7 13.a7 Kg6 14.a8=Q Kxh6 15.Qb7 Kg6 16.Qxb6 Kf7 17.Qxc5 Nd7 18.Qxa5 Ke7 19.Qd5 Ke8 20.Kf3 Ke7 21.c5 e4+ 22.Qxe4+ Kd8 23.Qd5 Kc8 24.Qc6+ Kd8 25.Qd6 Kc8 26.c6 Nb8 27.Qf8+ Kc7  (100.90)
Pesto engine (pst only):

Code: Select all

10 [+0.86]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3  (0.01)
11 [+0.84]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Kd6 6.Bd2  (0.01)
12 [+0.86]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4  (0.01)
13 [+0.86]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Kd2  (0.01)
14 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Kd2 Nf3+  (0.01)
15 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Kd2 Nf3+ 8.Kd3  (0.01)
16 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Kd2 Nf3+ 8.Kd3 Nd4  (0.01)
17 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Kd2 Nf3+ 8.Kd3 Kd6 9.Bd2  (0.03)
18 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Kd2 Kd6 8.Kd3  (0.03)
19 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3  (0.07)
20 [+0.79]  1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Ba1 Ne6 3.Kd3 Nd4 4.Bb2 Ke6 5.Bc3 Nf3 6.Ke3 Nd4 7.Bd2 Kf6 8.Kd3  (0.07)
22 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6  (0.38)
24 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6 4.Ba5 Kc7 5.Be1 Kd6 6.Bc3 Nd8 7.Ke3 Ne6 8.Ke2 Nd4+ 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Be1 Kd6 11.Bd2 Ke6 12.Bg5 Kd6  (0.54)
25 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6 4.Ba5 Kc7 5.Be1 Kd6 6.Bc3 Nd8 7.Ke3 Ne6 8.Ke2 Nd4+ 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Be1 Kd6 11.Bd2 Ke6 12.Bg5 Kd6 13.Ke3  (0.56)
26 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6  (0.64)
28 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6 4.Ba5 Kc7 5.Be1 Kd6 6.Bc3 Nd8 7.Ke3 Ne6 8.Ke2 Nd4+ 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Be1 Kd6 11.Bd2 Ke6 12.Bg5 Kd6 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Bf6 Kd6  (0.83)
29 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6  (1.02)
30 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6 4.Ba5 Kc7 5.Be1 Kd6 6.Bc3 Nd8 7.Ke3 Ne6 8.Ke2 Nd4+ 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Be1 Kd6 11.Bd2 Ke6 12.Bg5 Kd6 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Bf6 Kd6 15.Kd3 Ne6  (1.31)
31 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6 4.Ba5 Kc7 5.Be1 Kd6 6.Bc3 Nd8 7.Ke3 Ne6 8.Ke2 Nd4+ 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Be1 Kd6 11.Bd2 Ke6 12.Bg5 Kd6 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Bf6 Kd6 15.Kd3 Ne6 16.Kd2  (23.51)
32 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6  (23.61)
36 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6 4.Ba5 Kc7 5.Be1 Kd6 6.Bc3 Nd8 7.Ke3 Ne6 8.Ke2 Nd4+ 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Be1 Kd6 11.Bd2 Ke6 12.Bg5 Kd6 13.Ke3 Kc7 14.Bf6 Kd6 15.Kd3 Ne6 16.Kc3 Nd4 17.Kd2  (26.41)
37 [+0.64]  1.Ba1 g4 2.Kd3 Ke6 3.Bc3 Kd6  (28.71)
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peter
Posts: 3591
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by peter »

SlowChess is on 1.g4 with winning eval at once too, here with 30 threads of 16x4.3GHz CPU after some Forward- Backward. Because it became a little too hardware- time consuming for me, to keep all about as good answers of Black's in hash (32G), so I just copied three of them separately, first after 1...gxh4:

[d]8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p2p/2P1P1Pp/2B1K3/8/8 w - -

Engine: SlowChess2.9 (32768 MB)
von Jonathan Kreuzer

54/81 1:04 +M33 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Sg5 4.h6 Sxe4+ 5.Kg1 Sf6
6.La5 Kc7 7.Ld2 Kd6 8.Kh2 e4 9.Lf4+ Ke6
10.Kxh3 e3 11.Kg2 Kf7 12.Lb8 Se4
13.Kf3 Sd2+ 14.Ke2 Sxc4 15.Lxa7 (2.222.265.793) 34336
TB:52.217.738

, then aftert 1...hxg4:

[d]8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1p1/2P1P1pP/2B1K3/8/8 w - -

44/63 0:35 +M28 2.h5 Ke6 3.Kf2 Sd6 4.h6 Sxe4+ 5.Kg2 Sf6
6.La5 bxa5 7.b6 axb6 8.a7 e4 9.a8D e3
10.h7 Sxh7 11.De4+ Kf6 12.Dxh7 Ke5
13.Dg6 Kd4 14.Dxg5 Kxc4 15.Dxg4+ (1.430.050.796) 40649
TB:27.148.378

and after 1...Ke6:

[d]8/p4n2/Pp2k3/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P1PP/2B1K3/8/8 w - -

46/73 0:13 +M30 2.gxh5 Kf6 3.hxg5+ Sxg5 4.Kd3 Se6
5.h6 Sg5 6.h7 Sxh7 7.La5 bxa5 8.b6 axb6
9.a7 Sf8 10.a8D Se6 11.Ke3 Ke7
12.Db7+ Kf6 13.Dxb6 a4 14.Da6 Ke7
15.Dxa4 (497.408.987) 36872
TB:15.302.948

Edit: should have waited only some longer after stepping back the last two plies more, here after 1.g4:

[d]8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P1PP/2B1K3/8/8 b - -

42/78 3:20 +M33 1...gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Sg5 4.h6 Sxe4+
5.Kg1 Sg5 6.La5 Kc7 7.Ld2 Sf7 8.Kh2 Kd6
9.Kxh3 Ke6 10.h7 Kf5 11.La5 bxa5
12.b6 axb6 13.Kh4 Kg6 14.a7 Kxh7 (8.229.515.812) 40965
TB:182.047.590

and at original starting position:

8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - -

54/84 0:47 +M34 1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Sg5 4.h6 Sxe4+
5.Kg1 Sf6 6.La5 Kc7 7.Ld2 Kd7 8.Kh2 e4
9.Lf4 Ke6 10.Kxh3 Kf7 11.Lb8 e3
12.Kg3 Se4+ 13.Kf3 Sd2+ 14.Kxe3 (1.709.782.130) 35912
TB:47.659.510
Last edited by peter on Sun May 17, 2026 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
Peter.
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Harvey Williamson
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Whitchurch. Shropshire, UK.
Full name: Harvey Williamson

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by Harvey Williamson »

0:39/32-71, 1/15: 1.g4, 878.2M nodes (22.4M nps), 5.5M tbhits, 32GB hash, 32 threads
0:00: 0.00/28 1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Ne6 3.Bd2 Nd4 4.Kd3 Ne6 5.Ke2 Nd4+ 6.Kf2 Nb3 7.Bc3 Nd4 8.Bd2
0:00: 0.00/28 1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Ne6 3.Bd2 Nd4 4.Kd3 Ne6 5.Ke2 Nd4+ 6.Kf2 Nb3 7.Bc3 Nd4 8.Bd2
0:01: 0.00/29 1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Ne6 3.Bd2 Nd4 4.Kd3 Ne6 5.Ke2 Nd4+ 6.Kf2 Nb3 7.Bc3 Nd4 8.Bd2
0:02: 0.00/30 1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Ne6 3.Bd2 Nd4 4.Kd3 Ne6 5.Bc1 Ke7 6.Bd2 Kf6 7.Be3 Nd4 8.Bc1 Kg6 9.Be3 Kf6
0:02: 0.00/31 1.hxg5 Nxg5 2.Be1 Ne6 3.Bd2 Nd4 4.Kd3 Ne6 5.Bc1 Ke7 6.Bd2 Kd6
0:36: +5.56/31 1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 Ke6 3.Kf2 Nd6 4.h6 Nxe4+ 5.Kg2 Ng5 6.Bd2 Nf7 7.Ba5 bxa5 8.b6 axb6 9.h7 Kf6 10.a7 Kg7 11.a8=Q Kxh7 12.Kh3 Kg7 13.Kxh4 e4 14.Kg3 e3 15.Kf3 Ne5+ 16.Ke2 Kf6 17.Kxe3 Nxc4+ 18.Ke4 b5 19.Qf8+ Kg6 20.Qxc5 Nd2+ 21.Kd5

Hiarcs doesn't see it straight away but gets it fairly quickly.
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peter
Posts: 3591
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by peter »

peter wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2026 9:36 am Engine: SlowChess2.9 (32768 MB)
von Jonathan Kreuzer
...
8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - -

54/84 0:47 +M34 1.g4 gxh4 2.gxh5 h3 3.Kf2 Sg5 4.h6 Sxe4+
5.Kg1 Sf6 6.La5 Kc7 7.Ld2 Kd7 8.Kh2 e4
9.Lf4 Ke6 10.Kxh3 Kf7 11.Lb8 e3
12.Kg3 Se4+ 13.Kf3 Sd2+ 14.Kxe3 (1.709.782.130) 35912
TB:47.659.510
Edit- time over.
Having about as best lines already to backward with Huntsman, DTM- output with this one engine is to be kept in hash some more quickly of course too but starting de novo all over again. And also of course with MateSearch true, so without NNUE, just to mention as for the question of search or eval).

To spare some hardware- time again, one more output only at position after 1...hxg4:

8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1p1/2P1P1pP/2B1K3/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by The Huntsman 1:

2.h5 g3 3.Kf3 g2 4.Kxg2 Kc7 5.Kf3 Kd8 6.Kg4 Kd7 7.Ld2 Sd6 8.h6 Sxe4 9.Lxg5 Sd6 10.h7 Sf7 11.Lf6 e4 12.Kf4 e3 13.Kxe3 Ke6 14.h8D Sxh8 15.Lxh8 Kf5 16.Lc3 Ke6 17.La5 bxa5 18.b6 axb6 19.a7 a4 20.a8D a3 21.Dxa3 Kf5 22.Da8 b5 23.Dd5+ Kg6 24.Kf4 bxc4 25.De6+ Kh7 26.Kf5 Kg7 27.Dg6+ Kh8 28.Kf6 c3 29.Dg7#
Tiefe: 63/56 00:00:35 3399MN
+- (#28)

Yet some fewer moves than SlowChess gave in output, and as far as I saw with quick Backward of the alternative lines, 1...gxh4 seems to be just the same as for DTM, regards
Peter.
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User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4720
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   Eelco de Groot

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by Eelco de Groot »

In the pgn from Bluefish, a 2019 program, I thought Crystal maybe would be a bit faster here but that was not the case. I do think after 9...Ke7 it must be Mate, Bluefish did not play 9...Ke7 but I donlt think it miraculously saves anything, I will try Bluefish again later.

[pgn][Site "?"]
[Date "2026.05.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - -"]

1. g4 hxg4 (1... gxh4 2. gxh5 h3 3. Kf2 Ng5 4. h6 Nxe4+
5. Kg1 Nf6 6. Ba5 Kc7 7. Bd2 e4 8. Kh2 Kd6 9. Kxh3 Ke6
(9... Ke7 {see Diagram below}) 10. Ba5 e3 11. Kg2 (11. Kg2 {+M25/65 1:57m} bxa5
12. b6 axb6 13. a7 e2 14. Kf2 Kf7 15. a8=Q Kg6 16. Qf8 Ng4+
17. Kxe2 Nxh6 18. Qd6+ Kg5 19. Qxb6 a4 20. Qxc5+ Nf5
21. Kd3 Kf4 22. Qa5 a3 23. Qxa3 Ke5 24. Qa5+) 11... bxa5
12. b6 axb6 13. a7 e2 14. Kf2) 2. h5 *[/pgn]

Crystal 9, single thread, no tablebases, after a possible 9... Ke7:

[d]8/p3k3/Pp3n1P/1Pp5/2P1p3/7K/3B4/8 w - -

Code: Select all

Engine: Crystal 9 (1024 MB)
gemaakt door the Stockfish developers (see AUTHORS f

15/46  0:02   +7.85    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Pd7 
                       16.h7 Pe5+ 17.Ke4 Pf7 18.Lf4 Kf6 
                       19.Kd5 Kg6 20.Lb8 Kg7 21.h8D+ Kxh8 
                       22.Kc6 Pd8+ 23.Kc7 (3.109.859) 1477 

16/36  0:03   +7.90    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Kf7 14.Kf5 Pe8 15.Kxe4 Pf6+ 
                       16.Kf5 Ph5 17.Kg5 Pf6 18.Lf4 Ke6 
                       19.Lb8 Pe4+ 20.Kg6 Pd2 21.h7 Pf3 
                       22.Kg7 (4.708.138) 1463 

17/41  0:05   +8.00    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ke7 14.Kf5 Pe8 15.Kxe4 Pd6+ 
                       16.Kd5 Pf7 17.h7 Kd8 18.Ke6 Ke8 
                       19.Lf4 Ph8 20.Lb8 Kd8 (7.484.677) 1391 

18/40  0:07   +7.95    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Kf6 12.Lf4 Ke6 
                       13.Lb8 Pf6+ 14.Kf4 e3 15.Kf3 Kd7 
                       16.Lf4 Kc8 17.Lxe3 Kb8 18.Kf4 Ka8 
                       19.Kf5 Ph7 20.Kg6 (10.451.051) 1343 

19/34  0:08   +8.05    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Kf6 12.Lf4 Ke6 
                       13.Lb8 Pf6+ 14.Kf4 e3 15.Kf3 Kd7 
                       16.Lf4 Kc8 17.Lxe3 Kb8 18.Kf4 Ka8 
                       19.Ld2 Ph7 20.Kf5 Kb8 21.Lf4+ Ka8 (11.826.311) 1352 

20/79  0:11   +8.50    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Kf6 12.Lf4 Ke6 
                       13.Lb8 Pf6+ 14.Kf4 e3 15.Kf3 Kd7 
                       16.Le5 Ke7 17.Lf4 Kf8 18.Kxe3 Pd7 
                       19.Ke4 Kg8 (14.869.190) 1348 

21/54  0:20   +8.50    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ke7 14.Kf5 Kf7 15.Lf4 Ph5 
                       16.h7 Kg7 17.Le5+ Kxh7 18.Kxe4 Kg6 
                       19.Kd5 Pf6+ 20.Kc6 Ph7 (26.933.434) 1320 

22/57  0:30   +9.25    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Kf7 15.Kd5 Pg3 
                       16.Lf4 Ph5 17.Lb8 Pf6+ 18.Kc6 Pg4 
                       19.h7 Kg7 20.h8D+ Kxh8 21.Kb7 Pe3 
                       22.Kxa7 Kh7 (38.785.211) 1283 

23/54  0:52   +9.50    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Kf7 15.Lf4 Kg6 
                       16.Lb8 Pf6+ 17.Ke3 Pd7 18.Lxa7 Pe5 
                       19.Lb8 Pxc4+ 20.Kf3 Kxh6 21.a7 Pb2 
                       22.Ke4 Kh5 23.Lh2 (59.914.317) 1137 

24/52  1:08   +9.55    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Ke7 17.Lb8 Pg5+ 18.Kf4 Pe6+ 
                       19.Kg4 Pf8 20.Kf5 Kd7 21.Lxa7 Pe6 
                       22.Kf6 Pf8 (82.505.586) 1212 

25/44  1:09   +9.55    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke3 Kg6 18.Ke4 Pf6+ 
                       19.Kf3 Ph7 20.Lb8 Pg5+ 21.Ke3 Pf7 
                       22.Lxa7 Kxh6 23.Lxb6 (85.843.392) 1227 

26/63  1:39   +9.90    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke3 Kg6 18.Ke4 Pf6+ 
                       19.Kf3 Pd7 20.Ke3 Kf7 21.Ke4 Kf6 
                       22.Kd5 Pf8 23.Lb8 (129.232.779) 1301 

27/63  2:14   +9.95    10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Kf6 17.Lb8 Pg5+ 18.Ke3 Pf7 
                       19.Lxa7 Pxh6 20.Ke4 Ke6 21.Lxb6 Kd6 
                       22.a7 Pg8 (182.312.193) 1351 

28/47  3:17   +10.50   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Kf6 17.Lb8 Pg5+ 18.Ke3 Pf7 
                       19.Lxa7 Pxh6 20.Ke4 Ke6 21.Lxb6 Kd6 
                       22.a7 Pg4 23.La5 (271.562.627) 1372 

29/60  3:25   +10.50   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Kf7 17.Ke4 Kg6 18.Lb8 Pf6+ 
                       19.Kf3 Pe8 20.Kf4 Kxh6 21.Lxa7 Pc7 
                       22.Lb8 Pa8 23.Ke5 (283.317.664) 1381 

30/63  3:32   +10.50   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Kf7 17.Ke4 Kf6 18.Ke3 Pf8 
                       19.Lb8 Ke6 20.Ke4 Ph7 21.Lxa7 Pg5+ 
                       22.Ke3 Kd7 23.Kf4 (296.564.906) 1392 

31/51  3:38   +10.50   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Ke7 17.Lb8 Pg5+ 18.Kf4 Pe6+ 
                       19.Kg4 Pd8 20.Kf5 Pf7 21.h7 Ph6+ 
                       22.Kg5 Pf7+ 23.Kg6 (306.444.694) 1400 

32/62  5:00   +10.75   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Pf8 17.Lb8 Pg6 18.h7 Kf6 
                       19.h8D+ Pxh8 20.Lxa7 Kg7 21.Lxb6 Pf7 
                       22.Ke2 Pg5 23.a7 (429.728.868) 1428 

33/67  6:15   +10.80   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Ph7 
                       16.Lf4 Kf7 17.Lb8 Pg5+ 18.Kf4 Pe6+ 
                       19.Ke3 Kg6 20.h7 Kg7 21.Lxa7 Pc7 
                       22.Lb8 Pa8 23.h8D+ (551.137.716) 1466 

34/71  6:48   +10.80   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke4 Kg8 18.Kf5 Kh7 
                       19.Ke6 Pf8+ 20.Kd5 Kg6 21.Lb8 Kxh6 
                       22.Lxa7 Pg6 23.Ke4 (618.608.746) 1515 

35/68  7:33   +10.80   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke4 Kg8 18.Kf5 Kh7 
                       19.Ke6 Pf8+ 20.Kf6 Kg8 21.Kf5 Kf7 
                       22.Lb8 Pg6 23.Kg5 (710.319.799) 1564 

36/62  9:51   +11.10   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke4 Kg6 18.Kd5 Pf8 
                       19.Kc6 Pe6 20.Kb7 Kh7 21.Kxa7 Pxf4 
                       22.Kb7 Kg6 23.a7 (960.879.818) 1623 

37/84  17:42  +12.10   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke4 Kg8 18.Kf5 Kh7 
                       19.Ke6 Pf8+ 20.Kd5 Pg6 21.Lb8 Kxh6 
                       22.Ke4 Pf8 23.Lxa7 (1.664.378.668) 1566 

38/88  43:47  +13.70   10.Kh4 Ph7 11.Kg4 Ke6 12.Kf4 Pf6 
                       13.Le3 Ph5+ 14.Kxe4 Pf6+ 15.Kf3 Kf7 
                       16.Lf4 Pd7 17.Ke4 Pf8 18.Lb8 Kf6 
                       19.Lxa7 Pe6 20.Lb8 Pg5+ 21.Kd5 Ph7 
                       22.a7 Kf5 23.Ld6 (4.283.366.474) 1630
Crystal 5KWK does see a Mate now but the search was restarted at least three times after half an hour or so... Now Mate in 123++, M123 after one hour, plus several half hour searches gone before this one.

Code: Select all

8/p3k3/Pp3n1P/1Pp5/2P1p3/7K/3B4/8 w - -

Engine: Crystal 5 KWK (1024 MB)
gemaakt door the Stockfish developers (see AUTHORS f

20/45  0:00   +30.07   10.Lf4 Ke6 11.Lb8 Kd7 12.Kg3 e3 
                       13.Kf3 e2 14.Kxe2 Ph7 15.Ke3 Kd8 
                       16.Ke4 Kc8 17.Le5 Kd7 18.Kf5 Ke8 
                       19.Lb8 Kd7 20.Kg6 Pf8+ 21.Kf6 Ph7+ 
                       22.Kf7 Kd8 23.Kg7 (781.137) 1198 

21/53  0:08   +28.20   10.Lf4 Ke6 11.Lb8 e3 12.Kg3 Pe4+ 
                       13.Kf3 Pd2+ 14.Ke2 Kf7 15.Lxa7 Pxc4 
                       16.h7 Pd6 17.h8D Pxb5 18.Lb8 Pd4+ 
                       19.Kxe3 b5 20.Dh7+ Kf6 21.a7 b4 
                       22.a8D c4 23.Kxd4 (9.337.051) 1051 

22/40  0:19   +26.09-- 10.Lf4 Ke6 (21.010.244) 1059 

22/40  0:20   +30.26   10.Lf4 Ke6 11.Lb8 e3 12.Kg3 e2 
                       13.Kf2 e1T 14.Kxe1 Kd7 15.Ke2 Ph7 
                       16.Ke3 Kc8 17.Le5 Kd7 18.Ke4 Kc8 
                       19.Ld6 Kd7 20.Lf4 Pf8 21.Kf5 Kc8 
                       22.Ld6 Ph7 23.Ke6 (21.841.444) 1061 

23/41  0:35   +28.84-- 10.Lf4 Ph7 (36.900.990) 1051 

23/41  0:35   +28.33-- 10.Lf4 Ph7 (36.923.571) 1051 

23/41  0:35   +28.24-- 10.Lf4 Ph7 (36.924.618) 1051 

23/41  0:35   +27.81-- 10.Lf4 Ph7 (37.000.750) 1050 

23/41  0:35   +27.65-- 10.Lf4 Ph7 (37.001.453) 1050 

23/41  0:35   +28.37++ 10.Lf4 (37.107.166) 1051 

23/41  0:35   +28.60++ 10.Lf4 (37.343.669) 1053 

23/41  0:35   +28.89++ 10.Lf4 (37.749.247) 1056 

23/41  0:35   +26.97-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (37.896.290) 1057 

23/43  0:35   +28.37++ 10.Lf4 (38.001.854) 1057 

23/45  0:36   +28.92++ 10.Lf4 (38.317.314) 1059 

23/45  0:36   +29.93++ 10.Lf4 (38.774.370) 1061 

23/45  0:39   +30.37++ 10.Lf4 (42.122.971) 1067 

23/45  0:42   +27.62   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf7 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Pf6+ 17.Kc6 Pg4 18.Kb7 Kf5 
                       19.Kxa7 Ke4 20.Kxb6 Kd3 21.a7 Kxc4 
                       22.a8D Kd3 23.Df3+ (46.129.288) 1078 

24/43  1:00   +32.73   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf7 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Pf6+ 17.Kc6 Pg4 18.Kb7 Kf5 
                       19.Kxa7 Ke4 20.Kxb6 Kd3 21.a7 Kxc4 
                       22.a8D Pf6 23.Kc6 (64.643.468) 1076 

25/40  1:00   +31.18-- 10.Lf4 e3 (64.802.336) 1076 

25/40  1:04   +32.73   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf7 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Pf6+ 17.Kc6 Pg8 18.Kb7 Pe7 
                       19.Kxa7 Kh7 20.Kxb6 Kg6 21.Kxc5 Pc8 
                       22.h7 Kg7 23.h8D+ (69.854.982) 1079 

26/41  1:04   +32.36-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.114.592) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +31.61-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.184.375) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +31.40-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.202.321) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +31.18-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.234.904) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +30.97-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.235.966) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +30.72-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.239.187) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +29.85-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.241.452) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +29.65-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.252.960) 1079 

26/43  1:05   +28.78-- 10.Lf4 e3 (70.268.624) 1079 

26/43  1:07   +29.87++ 10.Lf4 (73.310.107) 1080 

26/43  1:08   +28.78-- 10.Lf4 e3 (73.937.946) 1081 

26/43  1:08   +27.91-- 10.Lf4 e3 (73.943.933) 1081 

26/43  1:08   +26.97-- 10.Lf4 e3 (73.950.325) 1081 

26/43  1:08   +25.08-- 10.Lf4 e3 (73.955.262) 1081 

26/43  1:08   +24.13-- 10.Lf4 e3 (73.958.250) 1081 

26/43  1:14   +25.56++ 10.Lf4 (80.804.337) 1087 

26/43  1:20   +27.72++ 10.Lf4 (87.327.745) 1088 

26/43  1:36   +30.42++ 10.Lf4 (104.837.240) 1091 

26/43  2:02   +30.26   10.Lf4 Kd7 11.Kg3 Ke6 12.Lb8 e3 
                       13.Kf3 Kd7 14.Le5 Ke6 15.Lxf6 Kxf6 
                       16.Kxe3 Kg6 17.Ke4 Kxh6 18.Kd5 Kg6 
                       19.Kc6 Kf5 20.Kb7 Ke4 21.Kxa7 Kd3 
                       22.Kxb6 Kxc4 23.a7 (134.024.458) 1089 

27/47  2:12   +30.05-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.346.782) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +29.97-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.355.766) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +29.93-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.365.446) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +29.85-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.370.994) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +29.14-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.373.710) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +28.97-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.379.125) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +28.67-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.384.293) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +28.39-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.391.110) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +28.00-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.396.497) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +27.53-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.438.327) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +26.98-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.447.326) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +26.17-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.452.546) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +25.29-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.461.722) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +24.09-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.468.303) 1090 

27/47  2:12   +22.69-- 10.Lf4 Kd7 (144.482.341) 1090 

27/47  2:20   +23.93++ 10.Lf4 (153.484.142) 1095 

27/47  2:28   +26.09++ 10.Lf4 (163.005.567) 1097 

27/47  2:33   +24.36   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf6 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Pf6+ 17.Kc6 Pg8 18.Kb7 Pe7 
                       19.Kxa7 Kh7 20.Kxb6 Pc8+ 21.Kc7 Pa7 
                       22.b6 Pc8 23.Kxc8 (168.095.243) 1098 

28/35  2:33   +24.46-- 10.Lf4 e3 (168.102.546) 1098 

28/35  2:33   +24.40-- 10.Lf4 e3 (168.105.394) 1098 

28/35  2:33   +24.36-- 10.Lf4 e3 (168.109.124) 1098 

28/35  2:35   +24.18-- 10.Lf4 Ke6 (170.619.892) 1098 

28/41  2:47   +24.62++ 10.Lf4 (184.347.039) 1101 

28/41  2:56   +24.70++ 10.Lf4 (194.735.504) 1102 

28/43  3:06   +24.80++ 10.Lf4 (205.916.048) 1102 

28/47  3:12   +25.51++ 10.Lf4 (212.708.331) 1104 

28/47  3:22   +25.85++ 10.Lf4 (224.500.034) 1107 

28/47  3:30   +26.28++ 10.Lf4 (233.098.885) 1108 

28/47  3:38   +26.82++ 10.Lf4 (242.610.138) 1109 

28/47  3:46   +27.51++ 10.Lf4 (251.804.169) 1110 

28/47  4:00   +28.37++ 10.Lf4 (267.990.042) 1112 

28/47  4:16   +29.47++ 10.Lf4 (285.750.716) 1116 

28/47  4:49   +30.84++ 10.Lf4 (322.362.419) 1112 

28/47  5:27   +32.56++ 10.Lf4 (363.755.829) 1110 

28/47  5:40   +24.08-- 10.Lf4 Ke6 (378.068.329) 1111 

28/47  5:50   +29.30++ 10.Lf4 (389.849.759) 1113 

28/48  6:11   +27.27   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Ke6 14.Kf3 Kf6 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Pf6+ 17.Kc6 Pg8 18.Kb7 Pe7 
                       19.Kxa7 Kh7 20.Kxb6 Pc8+ 21.Kc7 Pa7 
                       22.b6 Pc8 23.Kxc8 (412.657.836) 1111 

29/49  6:35   +27.42-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.902.227) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +27.12-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.968.461) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +27.06-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.972.888) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +26.96-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.976.224) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +26.19-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.979.076) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +26.00-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.981.651) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +25.58-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.984.526) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +25.08-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.987.570) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +24.56-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.990.357) 1112 

29/49  6:35   +24.12-- 10.Lf4 e3 (439.993.786) 1112 

29/49  6:36   +23.50-- 10.Lf4 e3 (440.839.003) 1112 

29/49  6:36   +22.79-- 10.Lf4 e3 (440.911.695) 1112 

29/49  6:36   +21.93-- 10.Lf4 e3 (441.158.970) 1112 

29/49  6:36   +20.83-- 10.Lf4 e3 (441.315.160) 1112 

29/49  6:36   +19.45-- 10.Lf4 e3 (441.330.563) 1112 

29/49  6:37   +17.72-- 10.Lf4 e3 (441.736.278) 1112 

29/49  6:48   +19.17++ 10.Lf4 (456.399.860) 1116 

29/49  6:58   +21.88++ 10.Lf4 (468.338.379) 1119 

29/49  7:15   +25.27++ 10.Lf4 (488.487.878) 1121 

29/49  7:48   +29.51++ 10.Lf4 (528.309.398) 1126 

29/49  8:29   +22.39   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf6 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Kf5 17.Lb8 Pxb8 18.h7 Pd7 
                       19.h8D Pf6+ 20.Kc6 Pe4 21.Dh7+ Kf4 
                       22.Dxa7 Pd2 23.Dxb6 (576.897.683) 1133 

30/49  8:56   +24.08-- 10.Lf4 e3 (611.721.508) 1140 

30/49  8:56   +24.00-- 10.Lf4 e3 (611.725.109) 1140 

30/49  8:56   +23.94-- 10.Lf4 e3 (611.732.031) 1140 

30/49  9:13   +24.98++ 10.Lf4 (631.166.148) 1140 

30/49  9:29   +25.10++ 10.Lf4 (650.339.022) 1141 

30/49  9:42   +25.25++ 10.Lf4 (665.795.971) 1142 

30/49  9:58   +25.46++ 10.Lf4 (683.856.934) 1142 

30/51  10:11  +25.73++ 10.Lf4 (699.106.709) 1143 

30/51  10:25  +26.06++ 10.Lf4 (716.033.887) 1144 

30/51  10:44  +26.49++ 10.Lf4 (736.736.139) 1143 

30/51  11:03  +27.03++ 10.Lf4 (759.322.856) 1144 

30/51  11:25  +27.72++ 10.Lf4 (784.190.089) 1144 

30/51  11:51  +28.59++ 10.Lf4 (813.668.781) 1144 

30/51  12:22  +29.68++ 10.Lf4 (849.115.567) 1144 

30/51  12:51  +31.05++ 10.Lf4 (881.333.262) 1142 

30/51  13:23  +23.84-- 10.Lf4 e3 (915.071.573) 1139 

30/51  13:38  +28.31++ 10.Lf4 (932.653.740) 1138 

30/51  13:58  +31.01++ 10.Lf4 (952.791.934) 1136 

30/53  14:23  +22.12   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf6 15.Ke4 Kg6 
                       16.Kd5 Pf6+ 17.Kc6 Pg8 18.Kb7 Pf6 
                       19.Kxa7 Ph5 20.Kxb6 Pxf4 21.a7 Kxh6 
                       22.a8D Kh5 23.Dc6 (981.191.559) 1135 

31/47  15:55  +32.57++ 10.Lf4 (1.081.438.152) 1132 

31/54  16:31  +24.46-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.119.662.827) 1129 

31/54  16:31  +24.37-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.119.674.557) 1129 

31/54  16:31  +24.28-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.119.742.787) 1129 

31/54  16:31  +24.13-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.119.758.326) 1129 

31/54  16:31  +23.95-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.119.767.423) 1129 

31/54  16:32  +23.75-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.120.318.055) 1128 

31/54  16:32  +23.48-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.120.344.639) 1128 

31/54  16:32  +23.14-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.120.855.610) 1128 

31/54  16:33  +22.26-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.120.915.218) 1128 

31/54  16:33  +21.98-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.121.006.339) 1128 

31/54  16:34  +21.63-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.121.835.684) 1128 

31/54  16:45  +21.93++ 10.Lf4 (1.135.008.758) 1129 

31/54  16:57  +23.11++ 10.Lf4 (1.148.265.189) 1128 

31/54  17:08  +24.48++ 10.Lf4 (1.162.189.340) 1129 

31/54  17:20  +26.20++ 10.Lf4 (1.176.134.587) 1130 

31/54  17:35  +28.36++ 10.Lf4 (1.192.332.858) 1129 

31/54  17:54  +31.06++ 10.Lf4 (1.213.315.669) 1129 

31/56  19:38  +20.56-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.326.598.015) 1126 

31/56  19:58  +27.50++ 10.Lf4 (1.350.732.385) 1126 

31/56  20:17  +16.31-- 10.Lf4 Kf8 (1.370.978.003) 1126 

31/77  20:42  +24.56++ 10.Lf4 (1.397.155.549) 1124 

31/77  22:44  +32.73   10.Lf4 e3 11.Lxe3 Kf7 12.Lf4 Pd7 
                       13.Kg4 Kg6 14.Kf3 Kf7 15.Ke4 Kf6 
                       16.h7 Kg7 17.Kf5 Kxh7 18.Ke6 Pf8+ 
                       19.Kf7 Pg6 20.Lb8 Kh6 21.Kf6 Kh5 
                       22.Lxa7 Ph4 23.Lxb6 (1.530.887.552) 1122 

32/53  25:33  +29.22-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.727.468.674) 1126 

32/53  26:20  +32.81   10.Lf4 Kf7 11.Lb8 e3 12.Kg3 Pe4+ 
                       13.Kf3 Pd2+ 14.Ke2 Pxc4 15.Lxa7 Pa3 
                       16.Lxb6 Pxb5 17.Lxc5 Kg6 18.Lxe3 Kh7 
                       19.Kf3 Pc7 20.a7 Kg8 21.Ke4 Kh8 
                       22.Lf4 Pa8 23.Kd5 (1.782.002.973) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +31.41-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.651.691) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +31.13-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.670.341) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +30.88-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.685.852) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +30.72-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.714.931) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +30.56-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.756.115) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +30.30-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.773.064) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +29.89-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.789.772) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +29.60-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.807.685) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +29.05-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.825.699) 1127 

33/49  26:20  +28.83-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.839.730) 1127 

33/49  26:21  +28.11-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.864.734) 1127 

33/49  26:21  +27.25-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.886.659) 1127 

33/49  26:21  +26.28-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.905.450) 1127 

33/49  26:21  +25.09-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.915.395) 1127 

33/49  26:21  +23.51-- 10.Lf4 Kf7 (1.782.951.088) 1127 

33/49  27:05  +24.97++ 10.Lf4 (1.833.251.108) 1127 

33/55  27:34  +27.12++ 10.Lf4 (1.867.694.929) 1128 

33/55  28:09  +29.83++ 10.Lf4 (1.908.841.245) 1129 

33/55  29:54  +33.06++ 10.Lf4 (2.025.983.883) 1128 

33/59  34:25  +37.47++ 10.Lf4 (2.325.927.405) 1125 

33/59  37:44  +42.78++ 10.Lf4 (2.539.865.935) 1121 

33/59  38:23  +21.86-- 10.Lf4 e3 (2.582.094.250) 1121 

33/59  39:13  +35.65++ 10.Lf4 (2.639.765.369) 1121 

33/59  40:40  +46.10++ 10.Lf4 (2.736.407.099) 1121 

33/59  41:43  +M123++  10.Lf4 (2.804.131.740) 1120 

33/67  61:53  +M123    10.Lf4 Kf7 11.Lb8 e3 12.Kg3 Pe4+ 
                       13.Kf3 Pd2+ 14.Ke2 Pxc4 15.Lxa7 Pa3 
                       16.Lxb6 Pxb5 17.Lxc5 Kg6 18.Lxe3 Pc3+ 
                       19.Kd3 Pb5 20.Ke4 Pd6+ 21.Kf4 Pe8 
                       22.a7 Pc7 23.Ke5 (4.501.686.935) 1212
With HCE you get at least double speed in nodes per second, compared to (big CSTal or Rebel for instance) NNUE, at least on the old Dell I tried here, depends a bit on processor cache I suppose, and it really is a Mate search if your passed pawn evaluation is good enough to find the first moves. So that is why a HCE program like Bluefish here probably is better than the NNUE from Crystal. Also programs like Rebel EAS and Strong Malt have no problems, at least less, with moves like Ba5 saccing the Bishop to possible bxa5. Bluefish also has lower material values so that works too. Crystal does not seem happy to do that here.

The aggressive style and passed pawn eval from Rebel EAS 3.0, StrongMalt maybe too although that probably is not an EAS version yet?- more than make up for the slower NNUE eval compared to old HCE and they find the first moves fast (less than one second for Rebel EAS 3.0 to find 1. g4)

But the search is also important here especially if you want to find a Mate, even going backwards it is still deep, M in 28 in Peter's search. Lots of singular extensions especially going towards Mate evaluation I suppose.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
Top
peter
Posts: 3591
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by peter »

Could have been wrong about DTM after 1.g4 gxh4 and ...hxg4 yet still, going backward 1...gxh4 some more, I can't get as shorter line to mate but this one:

[pgn][Event "Talkchess"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2026.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Juggernaut"]
[Black "Eggnog"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[BlackFideId "-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[GameId "2310685195837470"]

1. g4 gxh4 2. gxh5 h3 3. Kf2 Ng5 4. h6 Nxe4+ 5. Kg1 Nf6 6. Ba5 Kc7 7. Bd2 Kd7 8. Kh2 e4 9. Kxh3 Ke6 10. Bf4 e3 11. Kg2 Kf7 12. Bb8 Ne4 13. Kf1 Nd2+ 14. Ke2 Nxc4 15. Bxa7 Nd6 16. Bxb6 Nxb5 17. Bxc5 Kg6 18. Bxe3 Kh7 19. Kf3 Kg6 20. Kg4 Kf6 21. a7 Nc7 22. Kh5 Kf7 23. Bd4 Kg8 24. Be5 Na8 25. Kg6 Kf8 26. h7 Ke7 27. h8=Q Ke6 28. Qxa8 Kxe5 29. Qf3 Ke6 30. a8=Q Kd6 31. Qac6+ Ke5 32. Qe3# 1-0
[/pgn]
Tried SlowChess, Huntsman, ShashChess 34.1 (the latest one with HCE and on-off-switchable NNUE) and Vafra 12.9 Cfish, which also offers NNUE parameters of Hybrid, Pure and Classical, latest one meaning pure HCE. Not with any of these I had patience and hardware- time enough to keep full DTM- output in hash backwards to very starting position, not even to the one after 1...gxh4. It seems, there are even more crucial node- positions branching further than after 1...hxg4 yet, regards
Peter.
Top
Uri Blass
Posts: 11209
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by Uri Blass »

Steve Maughan wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2026 5:57 am This position came up in the CCRL Division match between Juggernaut and Eggnog:

[d]8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - -

Juggernaut played hxg5 and went on to lose :oops: . It turns out g4! wins for white. Stockfish finds this instantly with a score of +6. It's an interesting test position as many strong engines seem to struggle (Shredder and HIARCS). My question is: is this solved by search or evaluation? Of course, it's a combination of the two, but this seems extremely deep to solve on search alone, so I assume Stockfish's neural evaluation is doing some heavy lifting.

— Steve
It is solved by search.

Even old stupid yace could find it and 10 seconds was enough for it.
[d]8/p4n2/Pp1k4/1Pp1p1pp/2P1P2P/2B1K1P1/8/8 w - - 0 1

Yace:
1 00:00 8 129 -2.31 Bc3xe5+ Nf7xe5
1 00:00 12 12k +0.55 h4xg5 Nf7xg5
1 00:00 27 27k +0.61 Ke3-d3
1 00:00 38 38k +0.61 Ke3-d3
2 00:00 54 54k +0.52 Ke3-d3 g5-g4
2+ 00:00 65 65k +0.55 h4xg5 Nf7xg5
2 00:00 169 169k +0.55 h4xg5 Nf7xg5
3 00:00 285 285k +0.54 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3
3 00:00 427 427k +0.54 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3
4 00:00 589 589k +0.54 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Kd3-e3
4 00:00 1k 1,239k +0.54 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Kd3-e3
5 00:00 2k 2,367k +0.40 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Ng5-e6 Ke3-d3 Ne6-d4
5+ 00:00 3k 2,527k +0.46 Ke3-d3 g5-g4
5 00:00 3k 2,777k +0.54 Ke3-d3 g5-g4 Bc3-d2 Kd6-e6 Bd2-e3
5 00:00 4k 1,787k +0.54 Ke3-d3 g5-g4 Bc3-d2 Kd6-e6 Bd2-e3
6/9 00:00 5k 2,319k +0.41 Ke3-d3 g5-g4 Bc3-d2 Kd6-e6 Bd2-e3 Nf7-d6
6/10 00:00 8k 2,698k +0.41 Ke3-d3 g5-g4 Bc3-d2 Kd6-e6 Bd2-e3 Nf7-d6
7/10 00:00 10k 3,189k +0.41 Ke3-d3 g5-g4 Bc3-d2 Kd6-e6 Bd2-c1 Nf7-d6 Bc1-e3
7/10+ 00:00 15k 3,859k +0.42 Bc3-d2 g5-g4 Bd2-a5 Kd6-e6 Ba5xb6 Nf7-g5
7/10 00:00 17k 3,352k +0.49 Bc3-d2 g5-g4 Bd2-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-c3 Kc7-d6 Bc3-b2
7/10+ 00:00 26k 2,926k +0.51 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 Kc7-d6 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Ke3-d3 h5-h4
7/10 00:00 28k 3,112k +0.52 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Nf7-d6 Bd2-e3
7/13 00:00 28k 3,122k +0.52 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Nf7-d6 Bd2-e3
8/13 00:00 42k 3,026k +0.54 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d6 Bd2-e3 Kd6-e6
8/18 00:00 53k 3,092k +0.54 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d6 Bd2-e3 Kd6-e6
9/18 00:00 77k 3,333k +0.46 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Bd2-e3 Nf7-d6 Be3-g5
9/18 00:00 111k 3,255k +0.46 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Bd2-e3 Nf7-d6 Be3-g5
10/18 00:00 186k 3,450k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Kd7-e6 Bd2-c1 Nf7-d6
10/24 00:00 268k 3,481k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Kd7-e6 Bd2-c1 Nf7-d6
11/24 00:00 449k 3,511k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Kd7-e6 Bd2-c1 Nf7-d6 Bc1-e3
11/27 00:00 528k 3,569k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Kd7-e6 Bd2-c1 Nf7-d6 Bc1-e3
12/27 00:00 899k 3,671k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Nf7-d6 Bd2-g5 Nd6-f7 Bg5-f6 Kd7-e6 Kd3-c3
12/29 00:00 1,086k 3,732k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Nf7-d6 Bd2-g5 Nd6-f7 Bg5-f6 Kd7-e6 Kd3-c3
13/29 00:00 1,885k 3,652k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Kd7-d6 Bd2-e3 Kd6-c7 Be3-f2
13/32 00:00 2,314k 3,690k +0.41 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Kc7-d7 Be1-d2 Kd7-d6 Bd2-e3 Kd6-c7 Be3-f2
14/32 00:01 4,009k 3,782k +0.32 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-e1 g5-g4 Ke3-d3 Nf7-d8 Be1-f2 Kc7-d6 Bf2-e3 Nd8-e6 Be3-d2 Ne6-d4 Bd2-g5
14/33+ 00:01 4,403k 3,789k +0.33 h4xg5 Nf7xg5
14/33 00:01 4,988k 3,842k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Ng5-e6 Ke3-d3 Ne6-d4 Bd2-h6 Kd6-e6 Bh6-c1 Ke6-d6 Bc1-d2
14/33 00:01 5,708k 3,841k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Ng5-e6 Ke3-d3 Ne6-d4 Bd2-h6 Kd6-e6 Bh6-c1 Ke6-d6 Bc1-d2
15/33 00:01 6,776k 3,915k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Kd6-c7 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Bd2-h6 Kc7-d7
15/33 00:02 9,692k 3,858k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Kd6-c7 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Bd2-h6 Kc7-d7
16/33 00:02 11,445k 3,907k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Kd6-c7 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Bd2-h6 Kc7-d7 Kd3-e2 Nf3-d4+ Ke2-e3 Nd4-b3 Bh6-g5 Nb3-d4 Ke3-d3 Kd7-d6 Bg5-h6 Kd6-e6 Kd3-e3 Ke6-d6 Ke3-d3 Kd6-e6 Kd3-e3 Ke6-d6 Ke3-d3
16/33 00:06 23,628k 3,797k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Kd6-c7 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Bd2-h6 Kc7-d7 Kd3-e2 Nf3-d4+ Ke2-e3 Nd4-b3 Bh6-g5 Nb3-d4 Ke3-d3 Kd7-d6 Bg5-h6 Kd6-e6 Kd3-e3 Ke6-d6 Ke3-d3 Kd6-e6 Kd3-e3 Ke6-d6 Ke3-d3
17/33 00:07 27,030k 3,807k +0.34 h4xg5 Nf7xg5 Bc3-d2 Kd6-c7 Ke3-d3 Ng5-f3 Bd2-h6 Kc7-d7 Kd3-e2 Nf3-d4+ Ke2-e3 Kd7-d6 Bh6-g5 Nd4-c2+ Ke3-d2
17/33+ 00:10 41,620k 3,811k +0.35 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 Kd6-e6 Ke3-f2 Nf7-d6 h5-h6 Nd6xe4+ Kf2-f1 Ne4-g5 Bc3-a5 e5-e4 h6-h7 Ke6-e7
17/34 00:12 48,401k 3,819k +0.35 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-e2 Ne4xc3+ Ke2-d3 Nc3-d1 h6-h7 h3-h2 h7-h8Q Nd1-f2+ Kd3-e2 h2-h1Q Ke2xf2
17/34 00:13 51,103k 3,830k +0.35 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-e2 Ne4xc3+ Ke2-d3 Nc3-d1 h6-h7 h3-h2 h7-h8Q Nd1-f2+ Kd3-e2 h2-h1Q Ke2xf2
18/35+ 00:18 69,974k 3,822k +0.75 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4xc3 h6-h7 Kd6-e6 h7-h8Q Nc3xb5
18/35 00:23 88,747k 3,831k +0.85 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 e5-e4 Bd2-g5 Nf6-h7 Bg5-f4+ Kc7-d7 Kg1-h2 e4-e3 Bf4xe3
18/38 00:26 102,516k 3,806k +0.85 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 e5-e4 Bd2-g5 Nf6-h7 Bg5-f4+ Kc7-d7 Kg1-h2 e4-e3 Bf4xe3
19/40 00:40 151,664k 3,723k +1.04 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 e5-e4 Kg1-h2 Kc7-d6 Kh2xh3 Kd6-e5 Kh3-g2 Nf6-h7 Bd2-c3+ Ke5-f4
19/40 00:48 178,423k 3,716k +1.04 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 e5-e4 Kg1-h2 Kc7-d6 Kh2xh3 Kd6-e5 Kh3-g2 Nf6-h7 Bd2-c3+ Ke5-f4
20/40 01:18 280,648k 3,568k +1.03 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 Kc7-d6 Kg1-h2 Kd6-e6 Kh2xh3 Ke6-f5 Bd2-e3 Kf5-g6 Be3-f2 Kg6xh6
20/40 01:36 342,406k 3,539k +1.03 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 Kc7-d6 Kg1-h2 Kd6-e6 Kh2xh3 Ke6-f5 Bd2-e3 Kf5-g6 Be3-f2 Kg6xh6
21/41 02:30 522,516k 3,471k +1.03 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 Kc7-d6 Kg1-h2 Kd6-e6 Kh2xh3 Ke6-f5 Bd2-c3 Nf6-e4 Kh3-h4 Ne4-f6 Kh4-g3
21/41 03:02 631,861k 3,468k +1.03 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Bc3-a5 Kd6-c7 Ba5-d2 Kc7-d6 Kg1-h2 Kd6-e6 Kh2xh3 Ke6-f5 Bd2-c3 Nf6-e4 Kh3-h4 Ne4-f6 Kh4-g3
22/42 05:02 1,046,013k 3,455k +1.24 g3-g4 g5xh4 g4xh5 h4-h3 Ke3-f2 Nf7-g5 h5-h6 Ng5xe4+ Kf2-g1 Ne4-f6 Kg1-h1 Nf6-h7 Kh1-h2 e5-e4 Kh2xh3 Kd6-e6 Kh3-g4 Ke6-f7 Kg4-f4 Kf7-g6 Bc3-g7
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towforce
Posts: 13065
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:57 am
Location: Birmingham UK
Full name: Graham Laight

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by towforce »

The ultimate answer: knowledge compacted into the smallest/fastest eval possible. :)
Human chess is partly about tactics and strategy, but mostly about memory
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peter
Posts: 3591
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Interesting Position: Search or Evaluations?

Post by peter »

peter wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2026 2:19 pm Could have been wrong about DTM after 1.g4 gxh4 and ...hxg4 yet still,
And in the .pgn there was a shortcut at move nr. 18... yet still, 18...Kh7 is #14, but 18...Kf7 or ...Kf6 was #15 according to Nalimovs
:)
Peter.
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