Hi there,
ETOC-G
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
Before I start ETOC-G (around January 15th, 2026) a "Preparation-Tourney" is necessary.
A tourney among the 26 Standard-Engines started December 21st, 2025 (12:19):
16.250 games to play, everyone against everyone 50 games = 1.250 games per Standard-Engine!
LIVE-LINKS
shredder *.sto file (tournament configuration, game plan)
https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_tourney-1.sto
shredder *.html file (current results)
https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc ... ney-1.html
shredder *.pgn file (the games)
https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_tourney-1.pgn
Updates each 6 minutes with FTP-Software Fling Plus 5.04.
Best
Frank
ETOC-G
Moderator: Ras
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
Hi there,
the prepartion tourney is over since January 15th, 2026.
For Elo freaks:
Realistic for me is Nemorino 6.11 JA ... = 3200 Elo.
But what is realistic?
I'll enjoy it without such things, like Elo.
The draw rate is low. Many short games with a completely normal equal opening book. A good mix among the “standard engines,” so that ‘weaker’ and “stronger” engines can be tested well... always against the same 26 "Standard-Engines". For example, Uralochka 3.42a has the rank of a brigadier general, Wasp 7.00 has the rank of a captain. Later on, it will be possible to make good comparisons or easily see progress in engine development, all without the “terrible” Elo rating.
If I repeatedly test a new engine against the same group of 26 standard engines, there will be no Elo inflation. This bothers me greatly about the many rating lists. The Elo ratings of the current top engines seem far too high to me in the well-known rating lists. I think that Elo is too vague and is no longer suitable for today's playing strengths of computer chess programs.
A club player wants to know, for example, how strong Stockfish is. He finds ratings from 3600 to over 4000 Elo and thinks to himself that the computer community must be crazy!!?
The correct answer would be...
Stockfish is really exceptionally strong. A general. That says more than 4000 Elo or 3000 Elo and all that calculation nonsense. It's frightening, it took me about 50 years to understand that chasing an Elo is like chasing a yeti. Or a 50-centimeter spider, a 10-meter anaconda. Again, different opponents will give us different results. High draw rates are horror, more horror than the 50-centimeter spider.
Other conditions (group of opponents is realy not to underestimate) in tourneys will give us other results, not important how many games. Have a look in the different between Stockfish HCE from 2020 to the current Uralochka NN (my preparation tourney). Neural Network is clearly overestimated! A blind person can recognize that in the blink of an eye, or so.
Ultimately, it's no longer that important whether it's 2800 Elo or 3600 Elo, at least if someone decides to play against an engine themselves.
ETOC-G is starting with a delay.
The first engine test is expected to start on February 10, 2026.
For more information you can visit the ETOC-G site (under development):
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
Best
Frank
the prepartion tourney is over since January 15th, 2026.
For Elo freaks:
Realistic for me is Nemorino 6.11 JA ... = 3200 Elo.
But what is realistic?
Code: Select all
Program Elo + - Games Score Av.Op. Draws
1 Uralochka 3.42a JA : 3427.20 15.77 15.77 1250 79.4 % 3124 40.2 %
2 CSTal 2.0 : 3384.00 14.67 14.67 1250 75.6 % 3126 44.6 %
3 Velvet 8.1.1 : 3377.56 14.77 14.77 1250 75.0 % 3126 46.7 %
4 Revenge 4.0 : 3372.04 14.73 14.73 1250 74.4 % 3126 47.8 %
5 Igel 3.6.0 JA : 3358.66 14.57 14.57 1250 73.2 % 3127 50.3 %
6 Stockfish 200731 HCE dev : 3336.69 13.94 13.94 1250 71.0 % 3128 48.9 %
7 SlowChess Blitz 2.9 : 3322.41 13.35 13.35 1250 69.6 % 3128 49.5 %
8 Texel 1.12 : 3303.75 13.48 13.48 1250 67.6 % 3129 50.3 %
9 Tucano 12.00 : 3264.13 13.22 13.22 1250 63.4 % 3131 50.2 %
10 Patricia 5 JA : 3264.13 13.63 13.63 1250 63.4 % 3131 47.8 %
11 Wasp 7.00 : 3262.28 13.11 13.11 1250 63.2 % 3131 45.5 %
12 Nemorino 6.11 JA : 3200.00 12.89 12.89 1250 56.4 % 3133 47.4 %
13 Tcheran 9.0 : 3167.69 12.88 12.88 1250 52.8 % 3135 49.0 %
14 Leorik 3.1.3 JA : 3166.62 12.91 12.91 1250 52.7 % 3135 50.0 %
15 Booot 6.5 HCE : 3106.45 13.02 13.02 1250 46.0 % 3137 42.4 %
16 Xiphos 0.6.1 HCE JA : 3103.17 13.51 13.51 1250 45.6 % 3137 44.7 %
17 Laser 1.7 HCE JA : 3072.34 13.86 13.86 1250 42.3 % 3138 39.6 %
18 DanaSah 9.1 JA : 3038.98 13.56 13.56 1250 38.7 % 3140 40.6 %
19 Petrel 3.1 JA : 3020.98 14.15 14.15 1250 36.8 % 3140 40.6 %
20 Fizbo 2.0 JA : 2929.79 14.53 14.53 1250 27.9 % 3144 32.2 %
21 Critter 1.6a HCE : 2922.82 14.80 14.80 1250 27.2 % 3144 28.2 %
22 Vajolet2 2.8.0 HCE : 2904.59 15.03 15.03 1250 25.6 % 3145 31.5 %
23 Deep iCE 4.0.853 HCE : 2890.88 15.35 15.35 1250 24.4 % 3146 29.4 %
24 SmarThink 1.98 HCE : 2823.27 16.66 16.66 1250 18.9 % 3148 22.3 %
25 Hakkapeliitta TCEC v2 HCE : 2803.20 17.41 17.41 1250 17.4 % 3149 21.4 %
26 Spark 1.0 HCE : 2707.18 20.22 20.22 1250 11.3 % 3153 16.7 %
The draw rate is low. Many short games with a completely normal equal opening book. A good mix among the “standard engines,” so that ‘weaker’ and “stronger” engines can be tested well... always against the same 26 "Standard-Engines". For example, Uralochka 3.42a has the rank of a brigadier general, Wasp 7.00 has the rank of a captain. Later on, it will be possible to make good comparisons or easily see progress in engine development, all without the “terrible” Elo rating.
If I repeatedly test a new engine against the same group of 26 standard engines, there will be no Elo inflation. This bothers me greatly about the many rating lists. The Elo ratings of the current top engines seem far too high to me in the well-known rating lists. I think that Elo is too vague and is no longer suitable for today's playing strengths of computer chess programs.
A club player wants to know, for example, how strong Stockfish is. He finds ratings from 3600 to over 4000 Elo and thinks to himself that the computer community must be crazy!!?
The correct answer would be...
Stockfish is really exceptionally strong. A general. That says more than 4000 Elo or 3000 Elo and all that calculation nonsense. It's frightening, it took me about 50 years to understand that chasing an Elo is like chasing a yeti. Or a 50-centimeter spider, a 10-meter anaconda. Again, different opponents will give us different results. High draw rates are horror, more horror than the 50-centimeter spider.
Other conditions (group of opponents is realy not to underestimate) in tourneys will give us other results, not important how many games. Have a look in the different between Stockfish HCE from 2020 to the current Uralochka NN (my preparation tourney). Neural Network is clearly overestimated! A blind person can recognize that in the blink of an eye, or so.
Ultimately, it's no longer that important whether it's 2800 Elo or 3600 Elo, at least if someone decides to play against an engine themselves.
ETOC-G is starting with a delay.
The first engine test is expected to start on February 10, 2026.
For more information you can visit the ETOC-G site (under development):
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
Best
Frank
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
BTW:
Most short win's from Patricia with 74 move-average only (without resign mode) ... incredible, can be see on ETOC-G site.
Most short win's from Patricia with 74 move-average only (without resign mode) ... incredible, can be see on ETOC-G site.
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Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
Elo is driving us crazy!
Believe me, I am the best example!
Believe me, I am the best example!
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
Hi there,
I think I am ready with ETOC-G.
In recent weeks, I haven't had time to start my little event.
I also had to reconfigure one of my computers for this purpose, as it had been in hibernation for two years.
On ETOC-G site I added information about processor instruction to the 26 "Standard Engines". I will use the fastest compiles for the selected hardware.
ETOC-G will be start with Stockfish 17.1 JA, after Stockfish 18 JA, I still think it's number one.
For Stockfish 18 the rank: Lieutenant General *** should be possible ... think so!
ETOC-G:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
There is room for improvement. In addition, there are also:
General Field Marshal *****
General of Engines ****
In our spoiled high-tech community, the idea may sound strange, almost a little childish.
But somehow I think that observing the activity will also be quite fun.
Let's start on Tuesday with Stockfish 17.1 JA.
Sure, in LIVE-Mode.
See you!
Best
Frank
I think I am ready with ETOC-G.
In recent weeks, I haven't had time to start my little event.
I also had to reconfigure one of my computers for this purpose, as it had been in hibernation for two years.
On ETOC-G site I added information about processor instruction to the 26 "Standard Engines". I will use the fastest compiles for the selected hardware.
ETOC-G will be start with Stockfish 17.1 JA, after Stockfish 18 JA, I still think it's number one.
For Stockfish 18 the rank: Lieutenant General *** should be possible ... think so!
ETOC-G:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
There is room for improvement. In addition, there are also:
General Field Marshal *****
General of Engines ****
In our spoiled high-tech community, the idea may sound strange, almost a little childish.
But somehow I think that observing the activity will also be quite fun.
Let's start on Tuesday with Stockfish 17.1 JA.
Sure, in LIVE-Mode.
See you!
Best
Frank
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
One day before the drama begins ...
Here the ETOC-G logfile, available on ETOC-G site:
Here the ETOC-G logfile, available on ETOC-G site:
Code: Select all
logfile. own comments:
WELCOME to ETOC-G!
Engine-Test-Operating-Center-Gutweiler
ETOC-G serves as a pastime and something to watch.
Furthermore, I have own results for my overview of TOP-275 Engines.
---
February 09th, 2026 (01:00):
After spending a whopping nine months getting an overview of the available engines, I now know about 3.5%
of what's going on. That means I can join in the conversation again, even if no one wants to hear me anymore.
It's time to start ETOC-G on Tuesday, February 10th, 2026.
I just have to do some bulk shopping today. I have to think about my physical well-being, after all.
You know, Snickers, Popcorn and so on.
What bothers me about my own configuration is that I had the preparatory tournament run on different hardware.
I will therefore repeat the preparatory tournament among the 26 standard engines in the first half of 2026.
January 27th, 2026 (14:30):
ETOC-G is starting with a delay.
The first engine test is expected to start on February 10, 2026.
December 29th, 2025 (22:00):
I don't think a Monty dev version was a good idea for a “Standard-Engine”. I switched to Tucano 12.00.
I had stability issues with Senpai 3.0.1 HCE JA during the first few games. I needed another engine with
lower playing strength in the “Standard-Engines” test field. I switched to SmarThink 1.98 HCE.
December 25th, 2025 (12:00):
Tourney break December 24th, 2025 - December 29th, 2025
December 21st, 2025 (12:19):
Standard-Engines should also have a rank (rank = Dienstgrad in German language)!
The engine to be tested plays against 26 Standard-Engines, the own parameters??!
Not possible with Standard-Engines or I build 26 pairings like: Uralochka 3.42a vs. Uralochka 3.42a
Solution: Everyone against everyone among the Standard-Engines as a tourney!
After this tourney: Final results +25/50 points for each of the 26 Standard-Engines to determine the rank.
The tourney can be run on my second test PC, Intel® Core™ i9-10900K with 10 cores, overclocked to 4.3Ghz.
I just need to give a slightly higher time control because my AMD system is faster.
Preparation-Tourney started: December 21st, 2025 (12:19), 16.250 games to play!-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
Hm,
I've set myself a challenge.
I automated a lot, but somehow...
Suddenly and unexpectedly, a fairy godmother appeared at my door. Hey, Frank... I can help you with ETOC-G. But knowing myself, I only had eyes for this beautiful lady and forgot about ETOC-G again. It was the same in Leiden when Miss Winboard suddenly appeared (in the year 1998). A pretty student... Roland Pfister had to serve Patzer alone, I was busy elsewhere ... Patzer operator in stress mode. Well, those days are over... I'll definitely have to run ETOC-G all by myself.
No pretty fairy is going to ring my doorbell anyway.
But perhaps ... Miss Neural Network ...
Best
Frank
I've set myself a challenge.
I automated a lot, but somehow...
Suddenly and unexpectedly, a fairy godmother appeared at my door. Hey, Frank... I can help you with ETOC-G. But knowing myself, I only had eyes for this beautiful lady and forgot about ETOC-G again. It was the same in Leiden when Miss Winboard suddenly appeared (in the year 1998). A pretty student... Roland Pfister had to serve Patzer alone, I was busy elsewhere ... Patzer operator in stress mode. Well, those days are over... I'll definitely have to run ETOC-G all by myself.
No pretty fairy is going to ring my doorbell anyway.
But perhaps ... Miss Neural Network ...
Best
Frank
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
Hi there,
ETOC-G started three hours before!
Test-001:
Stockfish 17.1 vs. 26 "Standard Engines"
1.300 games to play.
If everything runs smoothly, a test takes less than a day. I then start the next test each day. Of course, there are days when I don't have time, or even several days in a row. But I estimate that something is running on about 250 days a year. Unless, of course, Miss Neural Network suddenly and unexpectedly shows up at my door ... you know.
After this first test, Stockfish 18 will follow tomorrow. Let's see if there is a noticeable difference in this test system. I'm only 80% convinced of this idea myself.
LINKS:
*.html = https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_t001.html
*.sto = https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_t001.sto
*.pgn = https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_t001.pgn
Updated every 5 minutes with Fling Plus 5.04 (FTP-Software)
Links are added on my engine overview:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_engines.htm (well-assorted by release date of engines)
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_engines-a.htm (well-assorted by alphabetic order of engines)
Links are available also at ETOC-G site (this site is still under development)
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
Again, Elo is boring and not important for ETOC-G!!
Much more important is the following table:
If you are following live, always pay attention to the percentage of points scored, as this will quickly reveal the ranking.
Enough words to ETOC-G ...
Now only the facts matter!
Have fun with my little event.
I want to offer something unique for my engine overview.
Best
Frank
ETOC-G started three hours before!
Test-001:
Stockfish 17.1 vs. 26 "Standard Engines"
1.300 games to play.
If everything runs smoothly, a test takes less than a day. I then start the next test each day. Of course, there are days when I don't have time, or even several days in a row. But I estimate that something is running on about 250 days a year. Unless, of course, Miss Neural Network suddenly and unexpectedly shows up at my door ... you know.
After this first test, Stockfish 18 will follow tomorrow. Let's see if there is a noticeable difference in this test system. I'm only 80% convinced of this idea myself.
LINKS:
*.html = https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_t001.html
*.sto = https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_t001.sto
*.pgn = https://www.amateurschach.de/fling/etoc-g_t001.pgn
Updated every 5 minutes with Fling Plus 5.04 (FTP-Software)
Links are added on my engine overview:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_engines.htm (well-assorted by release date of engines)
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_engines-a.htm (well-assorted by alphabetic order of engines)
Links are available also at ETOC-G site (this site is still under development)
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_etoc-g.htm
Again, Elo is boring and not important for ETOC-G!!
Much more important is the following table:
If you are following live, always pay attention to the percentage of points scored, as this will quickly reveal the ranking.
Code: Select all
Rank points/%
General Field Marshal ***** 1.300,0 (100,00%) - 1.144,0 ( 88,00%)
General of Engines **** 1.143,5 ( 87,97%) - 1.105,0 ( 85,00%)
Lieutenant General *** 1.104,5 ( 84,97%) - 1.066,0 ( 82,00%)
Major General ** 1.065,5 ( 81,97%) - 1.027,0 ( 79,00%)
Brigadier General * 1.026,5 ( 78,97%) - 988,0 ( 76,00%)
Colonel 987,5 ( 75,97%) - 936,0 ( 72,00%)
Lieutenant Colonel 935,5 ( 71,97%) - 884,0 ( 68,00%)
Major 883,5 ( 67,97%) - 832,0 ( 64,00%)
Captain 831,5 ( 63,97%) - 780,0 ( 60,00%)
First Lieutenant 779,5 ( 59,97%) - 728,0 ( 56,00%)
Second Lieutenant 727,5 ( 55,97%) - 676,0 ( 52,00%)
Sergeant Major 675,5 ( 51,97%) - 637,0 ( 49,00%)
Master Sergeant 636,5 ( 48,97%) - 598,0 ( 46,00%)
Sergeant First Class 597,5 ( 45,97%) - 559,0 ( 43,00%)
Staff Sergeant 558,5 ( 42,97%) - 520,0 ( 40,00%)
Sergeant 519,5 ( 39,97%) - 481,0 ( 37,00%)
Corporal 480,5 ( 36,97%) - 442,0 ( 34,00%)
Specialist 441,5 ( 33,97%) - 403,0 ( 31,00%)
Private First Class 402,5 ( 30,97%) - 364,0 ( 28,00%)
Private 363,5 ( 27,97%) - 0,0 ( 0,00%)Now only the facts matter!
Have fun with my little event.
I want to offer something unique for my engine overview.
Best
Frank
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
106 watts of power consumption (16 matches running simultaneously). OK, the system also runs at 4.8 GHz (4.0 GHz is set for ETOC-G) with my water cooling system. But that would be over 160 watts of power consumption. I've optimized the system down to the smallest detail over the last few days. It's like my best days... now things are really taking off.
-
Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 7254
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: ETOC-G
Stockfish 17.1 is a bit boring, because I made a test before on an other test-system.
Rang is clear ...
Major General **, with other words a two stars general.
More interesting is Stockfish 18 tomorrow.
I hope we can see the different or I never post any messages in tournament selection.
Otherwise people will think I'm crazy and I will get the red card from the Stockfish team.
I will not get the red card from the Stockfish team, you know!
Only a bit crazy, I am Computerschächler, not more not less.
Best
Frank
Rang is clear ...
Major General **, with other words a two stars general.
More interesting is Stockfish 18 tomorrow.
I hope we can see the different or I never post any messages in tournament selection.
Otherwise people will think I'm crazy and I will get the red card from the Stockfish team.
I will not get the red card from the Stockfish team, you know!
Only a bit crazy, I am Computerschächler, not more not less.
Best
Frank