Old chess computers nostalgia

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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Rubinus
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Full name: Pavel Háse

Re: Old chess computers nostalgia

Post by Rubinus »

It was probably not a good idea to use DGT Centaur - friendly for testing. It's too friendly. His game could be defined as maintaining an approximate balance with giving chances in a "beat me if you can" way. Instead of the expected fast-paced game, it ended up being an endgame of multicolored shooters - exactly what I hate most about computer games. Despite the three extra pawns for Mephisto to draw, it was enough to hold the position. I was already starting to consider guessing 1/2, but the overly friendly Centaur still finished the job and Mephisto was about to win. The game won't be up until tomorrow, I don't feel like entering it into the computer today, it's over 80 moves. Since I'm going to work the day after tomorrow, the rematch will wait until Friday, if there's anything to play tomorrow, it'll be with a different opponent, Chess Titans from Windows 7, I'd guess it's a level 6. Level 10 is so on par with MMII, in my opinion. On the other hand, for players who want to play, Centaur is a good choice, for a friendly level, if it works the way I'm guessing after today, pretty much anyone can beat it.
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Rubinus
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Re: Old chess computers nostalgia

Post by Rubinus »

[pgn][Event "test"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2024.08.28"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Mephisto MMI, level 6"]
[Black "DGT Centaur, level friendly"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B46"]
[PlyCount "201"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 {last theo} a6 6. Nxc6 dxc6 7.
Qxd8+ Kxd8 8. Bg5+ Ke8 9. Be2 Nf6 10. O-O {1,09} e5 {0,89} 11. Bxf6 gxf6 12. f4
Bc5+ 13. Kh1 h5 14. Rad1 Bg4 15. a4 {0,43} Be3 {0,14} 16. g3 Bh3 17. Rf3 Ba7
18. Rfd3 Ke7 19. f5 Ke8 20. Rd7 {2,18} Rb8 {0,00} 21. Bc4 Bg4 22. Bxf7+ Kf8 23.
R1d3 Rh7 24. Be6 Rg7 25. R7d6 {1,81} Bc5 {1,10} 26. Rd8+ Rxd8 27. Rxd8+ Ke7 28.
Rd7+ Ke8 $1 29. Rd3 Bh3 30. Rd1 {0,93} h4 {0,12} 31. Rd3 Bd4 32. Bc8 Kd8 33.
Be6 b5 34. axb5 Bf1 35. Rf3 {0,77} Bxb5 {0,50} 36. Nxb5 axb5 37. c3 Bb6 38.
Rd3+ Ke8 39. Kg2 Bc5 40. b4 {1,39} Bf8 {1,12} 41. Kf3 Rh7 42. gxh4 Rg7 43. h5
Ra7 44. Kg4 Rb7 45. h4 {1,86} Rh7 {1,65} 46. Kg3 Ra7 47. Kf3 Rb7 48. Bg8 Rg7
49. Bb3 Ra7 50. Kg4 {1,13} Ra3 {1,42} 51. Be6 Ra7 52. Rg3 Rh7 53. Rg2 Rg7+ 54.
Kf3 c5 55. Rxg7 {3,06} Bxg7 {1,38} 56. bxc5 Kd8 57. Ke3 Ke8 58. c6 Bh6+ 59. Kf3
Kd8 60. Bd5 {2,59} Kc8 {1,39} 61. Kf2 Kc7 62. Ke2 Kb6 63. Kf3 Bf8 64. Ke3 Bc5+
65. Kd3 {2,78} Bf8 {1,22} 66. Kd2 Bh6+ 67. Ke2 Kc7 68. Kd3 Bf8 69. Ke3 Bh6+ 70.
Kf2 {2,59} Bf8 {1,22} 71. Kg3 Bh6 72. Kg4 Kb6 73. Kh3 Kc7 74. Kg3 Bg7 75. Kg4 {
2,56} b4 {2,62} 76. cxb4 Kb8 77. b5 Kc7 78. h6 $1 Bxh6 79. Kh5 Bd2 80. Kg6 Be1
81. b6+ Kxb6 82. c7 Kxc7 83. h5 Bd2 84. Kxf6 Be3 85. Kg7 {7,52} Bf4 {11,77} 86.
Bg8 Kd6 87. f6 Kc7 88. f7 Kc6 89. f8=Q Kb7 90. Qc5 Bg5 91. Qb5+ Kc8 92. Be6+
Kc7 93. Qxe5+ Kc6 94. Bd5+ Kb5 95. Qxg5 Kb4 96. h6 Ka3 97. h7 Ka4 98. h8=Q Ka3
99. Qa8+ Kb2 100. Qa2+ Kc3 101. Qgd2# 1-0
[/pgn]
I'm not even in the mood to comment. Mephisto deserved to lose, 35.-hg3, but DGT was just "friendly". The result was an endgame of multicoloured bishops - as I wrote, I don't like to see that between computers. And if you look at the position around move 72, despite the three extra pawns, it's a draw. Black just needs to hold Kc7 and bishop the h6 square - that way White's king doesn't get to Black's pawns and there's nowhere to pass. Then came another very friendly move 75.-b4?? and it was clear. Mephisto even found a winning approach 78.h6 with king penetration to the pawns, but the realisation afterwards annoyed me. And I don't understand the 81.b6 Kxb6 82.c7 Kxc7 part at all. Why does a machine that eats everything, even what it's not allowed to, suddenly give back two pawns? It doesn't have some sort of opponent mocking module in it, and a friendly setup like DGT doesn't either? It doesn't change the result, it was annoying even afterwards when it was so cunning instead of a quick checkmate.
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Rubinus
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Full name: Pavel Háse

Re: Old chess computers nostalgia

Post by Rubinus »

[pgn][Event "test"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2024.08.28"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Chess Titans (by windows 7), level 6"]
[Black "Mephisto MMI, level 6"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D55"]
[PlyCount "102"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 d5 4. Bg5 Be7 5. Nf3 O-O 6. e3 b6 {last theo} 7. Rc1
Ba6 $6 {0,10} 8. b3 $6 (8. Bxf6 Bxf6 9. cxd5 Bxf1 10. Kxf1 exd5 $16) 8... Nc6
$6 (8... Nbd7) 9. Bd3 $6 (9. cxd5) 9... dxc4 10. Bxc4 (10. bxc4) 10... Bxc4 {
-0,09} 11. bxc4 Na5 12. Qd3 c5 13. O-O cxd4 14. exd4 Qd6 $6 (14... Rc8) 15.
Bxf6 Bxf6 {0,02} 16. Ne4 Qe7 $6 (16... Qf4) 17. c5 $6 (17. d5 Nb7 18. d6 Qd8
19. Rfd1 $16) 17... Rac8 18. Qc3 $6 (18. cxb6) 18... Rfd8 19. g4 $6 (19. h3)
19... Nc6 20. Nd6 $2 {The opponents exchanged several inaccuracies, but this
mistake loses the game. A loss of material that White probably didn't count.} (
20. cxb6 $11) 20... Nxd4 $1 {-2,58} 21. Nxc8 Ne2+ 22. Kh1 Rxc8 23. Qb4 Nxc1 24.
Rxc1 bxc5 (24... Rxc5 {Surely it would have been better to replace one more
figure. Moreover, it was with Chess Titans that I noticed that the strength of
his game drops significantly with the disappearance of pieces.}) 25. Qe4 Bh4 $2
{-3,12 For the horizon effect, he overlooks the weak last rank and loses the
c5 pawn} (25... h6) 26. Nxh4 Qxh4 27. Rxc5 Rd8 28. Kg1 $2 {He's giving his
opponent a move.} (28. Kg2) 28... Qf6 29. a4 $2 (29. h3) 29... Rd1+ $2 (29...
g6) 30. Kg2 Qd8 {-1,78} (30... g6) 31. Rh5 $2 {He slipped out of a losing
position the first time, but now it gives him another chance. A childish lunge
gives his opponent the decisive initiative and more material.} g6 32. Re5 Rd4
33. Qc2 Rxg4+ 34. Kf3 Qh4 (34... Rh4) 35. Qc8+ Kg7 {-4,36} 36. Ke2 Rxa4 37. Qc3
Ra2+ 38. Kd3 Qf6 39. h4 Rxf2 40. Qa1 Rf3+ {-6,21} 41. Kd2 Rf1 42. Qc3 Rf2+ 43.
Kd1 a6 (43... Rf3 44. Qd4 Rf5) 44. Re3 Rf1+ 45. Ke2 Rf4 {-4,84} 46. Qa3 $2 {
The position is decided, but I was expecting the tower ending to be a long one,
but now it comes quickly. Initiative in positions with active heavy pieces and
an exposed king is often decisive.} Rxh4 47. Qxa6 $2 {Why didn't he switch the
queens? Valuation, I guess. His queen bonus was higher than his opponent's, so
it didn't seem like a good deal. If there weren't so many fewer pawns and so
many uncovered kings, it would make sense for the game's chances. Of course,
it would soon be over now.} (47. Qc3) 47... Rh2+ 48. Kd1 Qd4+ 49. Ke1 Qxe3+ 50.
Kd1 Qg1+ {OMG} 51. Qf1 Qxf1# 0-1
[/pgn]
I don't know who is the author of Chess Titans, but it's pretty weak even for level 10. I especially noticed that its power decreases a lot as the number of pieces decreases. Maybe the predefined depth of calculation is to blame for this - although level 10 can't mean 10 half-moves, that would give regular club players little chance, whereas I estimate level 10 strength at about 1600-1700, just because of the lousy endgames. I estimated that level 6 could be an equal opponent for MMI, but it would probably take 1-2 to add, this was pretty clear.

The rematch with DGT Centaur will have to wait until I have time to sleep, as that game will probably be very long again.
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Rubinus
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Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Prague
Full name: Pavel Háse

Re: Old chess computers nostalgia

Post by Rubinus »

Warning - really crappy game!
[pgn][Event "test"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2024.08.31"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Mephisto MMI, level 6"]
[Black "Chess Titans (Windows7), level 6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D94"]
[PlyCount "115"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 Bg7 4. Nc3 d5 5. e3 {last theo} Bf5 $2 (5... O-O) 6.
Qb3 {0,97} dxc4 $2 (6... c5) 7. Bxc4 $18 Qc8 $2 (7... e6) 8. Bxf7+ Kf8 9. O-O
$6 {True, he may not be in such a hurry, and if he plugged in the tower...
Would you believe at this point that the game will last 58 moves, and that's
with Black still tied with a perpetual check?} (9. Ng5) 9... Nbd7 10. Ng5 e5 (
10... h6 11. Ne6+ Kxf7 12. Ng5+ Ke8 13. Qf7+ Kd8 14. Qxg7) 11. e4 {2,62 SF 7,65
} exd4 12. exf5 dxc3 {Seeing how poorly White played it then, it would almost
be worth repeating the whole thing, but Black would play Stockfish... Would he
win?} 13. fxg6 (13. Ne6+ Ke7 14. Re1) 13... hxg6 (13... Nc5) 14. Qxc3 (14. Bxg6
Ne5 15. f4) 14... Rh6 (14... Ne4) 15. Qa3+ {3,71} c5 16. Qd3 (16. Bf4) 16...
Qb8 17. f4 {It's lacking drive to the goal. He not only sees his own threat
poorly, but he can't even press the opponent.} (17. Bf4) 17... Bh8 18. Bxg6 b5
19. Qf5 (19. Qb3) 19... b4 20. Nf7 {5,67} (20. Qe6 {#11}) 20... Rh4 21. g3 Rh7
22. Bxh7 Kxf7 23. b3 $2 (23. Bg6+ Kg7 24. Re1) 23... Kf8 $2 (23... Nf8) 24. Rd1
Qb7 25. Be3 {6,30} Rc8 26. Rac1 (26. Re1) 26... Qc6 27. a3 $6 {He just wants
the c5 pawn, no matter what the cost.} (27. Bf2) 27... bxa3 28. b4 Re8 29.
Bxc5+ $2 (29. Rxd7 {and you can't} Qxd7 $2 30. Bxc5+) 29... Nxc5 30. bxc5 $4 (
30. Bg6) 30... a2 $4 {It could've been straight. But Black gave it another
chance.} (30... Re2 $1 31. Qh3 Qf3 $11) 31. Rd6 {7,27} Qc7 32. Rxf6+ Bxf6 33.
Qxf6+ Qf7 34. Qd6+ {Checkmate is unable to find but avoids an exchange of
queens, after which he would easily win.} (34. Qxf7+) 34... Kg7 35. Bd3 {7,25}
Qf6 {He also doesn't understand that he won't have anything to play with after
the trade.} 36. Qd7+ $6 Re7 37. Qg4+ Kf8 38. Qd1 $2 (38. Qf5) 38... Rd7 (38...
Re8) 39. Qa4 $2 (39. c6) 39... Rxd3 40. Qxa2 {4,33} Qe7 41. Qa1 $4 {He
considered Qc4 for quite a while, which he could still lose. Then a correct
Qf2 and suddenly he changed it to a game move... I was going crazy.} (41. Qf2)
41... Qe3+ $11 42. Kh1 Qe4+ 43. Kg1 Kg8 $4 {Those old programs often avoided
draws, I've seen him move out of a critical square in a pawn endgame rather
than repeat moves, but not yet....} 44. Qa2+ Rd5 $4 {Well, he made it even
"better"...} 45. Rd1 Qe3+ 46. Kg2 Qe4+ 47. Kf2 a5 48. Rxd5 Kf8 49. Rd7 Qe8 50.
c6 Qh5 51. Qa3+ Kg8 52. Qb3+ Kf8 53. Qb8+ Qe8 54. Qd6+ Kg8 55. Qd5+ Kf8 56.
Qf5+ Kg8 57. Qh7+ Kf8 58. Qh8# 1-0
[/pgn]
I have a master friend who runs a chess school for children. I once told him at a children's tournament that I admire it when he watches his charges play sometimes very weak games on Saturday, then the next day on Sunday he is able to play a league team competition.
This game was so miserable that I can imagine, if played in a children's tournament, some pretty suffering coaches and some ambitious parents on the verge of insanity....

I drew with him twice 40 years ago by perpetual check after overlooking a loss of quality. But that he could throw away such an advantage as he had in this game, I really wouldn't have thought. However, Chess Titans didn't show much either, totally lost after turn 9... I believe Mephisto will beat even level 7, then we'll see if he can do 8.