Top Engines Unfashionable Openings

[Graham Banks]

It seems that these are not the only book moves
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3

I download the game and I see many book moves after 3.c3 and black got a winning position out of book after 21.Kh1

Not sure how you got that. Here is the official PGN of that game.

[Event "Top Engines Unfashionable Op"] [Site "ChessGUI9"] [Date "2024.05.04"] [Round "62.2"] [White "RubiChess 20240112 64-bit"] [Black "PlentyChess 1.0.0 64-bit"] [Result "0-1"] [Time "7:15:58 am"] [ECO "C44"] [Opening "Steinitz Variation, Ponziani"] [TimeControl "720+8"] [PlyCount "81"] [Number "246"] [Termination "GUI adjudication"] [WhiteType "program"] [BlackType "program"] [Variant "normal"] { AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3.40 GHz } 1.e4 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} e5 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} 2.Nf3 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} Nc6 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} 3.c3 {[%eval 0,1] [%emt 00:00:00]} d5 {[%eval 19,29] [%emt 00:00:39]} 4.Qa4 {(Qa4) [%eval -11,25] [%emt 00:00:15]} f6 {(f6) [%eval 20,30] [%emt 00:00:33]} 5.d3 {(d3) [%eval -9,26] [%emt 00:00:12]} Be6 {(Be6) [%eval 11,30] [%emt 00:01:28]} 6.Nbd2 {(Nbd2) [%eval -11,28] [%emt 00:00:46]} Qd7 {(Qd7) [%eval 9,31] [%emt 00:00:48]} 7.Be2 {(Be2) [%eval -3,31] [%emt 00:00:42]} Nge7 {(Nge7) [%eval -1,30] [%emt 00:00:19]} 8.O-O {(O-O) [%eval 0,31] [%emt 00:00:20]} g5 {(d4) [%eval 4,32] [%emt 00:00:59]} 9.Nb3 {(Nb3) [%eval 8,25] [%emt 00:00:13]} Ng6 {(Nb8) [%eval 6,29] [%emt 00:00:21]} 10.Rd1 {(exd5) [%eval 0,31] [%emt 00:01:05]} a6 {(Nb8) [%eval 53,30] [%emt 00:00:27]} 11.exd5 {(d4) [%eval -12,30] [%emt 00:00:49]} Bxd5 {(Qxd5) [%eval 149,29] [%emt 00:00:16]} 12.d4 {(Ne1) [%eval 0,28] [%emt 00:00:08]} b5 {(b5) [%eval 220,28] [%emt 00:00:15]} 13.Bxb5 {(Bxb5) [%eval 0,29] [%emt 00:00:19]} Bxf3 {(Bxf3) [%eval 241,26] [%emt 00:00:15]} 14.gxf3 {(gxf3) [%eval 0,29] [%emt 00:00:11]} axb5 {(axb5) [%eval 249,28] [%emt 00:00:13]} 15.Qxa8 {(Qxa8) [%eval 0,31] [%emt 00:00:14]} Kf7 {(Kf7) [%eval 283,28] [%emt 00:00:15]} 16.d5 {(Kf1) [%eval 0,33] [%emt 00:00:40]} Qh3 {(Nce7) [%eval 328,31] [%emt 00:00:13]} 17.Qxc6 {(Qxc6) [%eval -316,28] [%emt 00:00:31]} Bd6 {(Bd6) [%eval 345,34] [%emt 00:00:20]} 18.Nc5 {(Nc5) [%eval -322,30] [%emt 00:00:28]} Rd8 {(Rd8) [%eval 366,33] [%emt 00:00:22]} 19.Bxg5 {(Bxg5) [%eval -328,30] [%emt 00:00:39]} e4 {(e4) [%eval 375,32] [%emt 00:00:13]} 20.Nxe4 {(Nxe4) [%eval -328,28] [%emt 00:00:31]} Bxh2 {(Bxh2) [%eval 389,31] [%emt 00:00:14]} 21.Kh1 {(Kh1) [%eval -328,5] [%emt 00:00:00]} Bd6 {(Bf4) [%eval 366,33] [%emt 00:00:20]} 22.Kg1 {(Kg1) [%eval -328,5] [%emt 00:00:00]} Ne5 {(Nh4) [%eval 397,32] [%emt 00:00:12]} 23.Nxd6 {(Nxd6) [%eval -337,26] [%emt 00:00:23]} cxd6 {(cxd6) [%eval 395,32] [%emt 00:00:23]} 24.Qb7 {(Qc7) [%eval -334,30] [%emt 00:00:25]} Rd7 {(Kg6) [%eval 421,33] [%emt 00:00:30]} 25.Qxd7 {(Qxd7) [%eval -287,24] [%emt 00:00:20]} Qxd7 {(Qxd7) [%eval 430,32] [%emt 00:00:15]} 26.Bf4 {(Bf4) [%eval -307,27] [%emt 00:00:16]} Nxf3 {(Nxf3) [%eval 408,32] [%emt 00:00:14]} 27.Kf1 {(Kf1) [%eval -313,27] [%emt 00:00:08]} Qh3 {(Qh3) [%eval 431,30] [%emt 00:00:15]} 28.Ke2 {(Ke2) [%eval -313,23] [%emt 00:00:00]} Qg4 {[%eval 435,29] [%emt 00:00:14]} 29.Ke3 {(Bxd6) [%eval -331,30] [%emt 00:01:34]} Kg6 {(Nh4) [%eval 470,29] [%emt 00:00:19]} 30.Bxd6 {(Bxd6) [%eval -377,25] [%emt 00:00:16]} Kf5 {(Kf5) [%eval 521,26] [%emt 00:00:07]} 31.Ke2 {(Ke2) [%eval -391,27] [%emt 00:00:25]} h5 {(h5) [%eval 491,28] [%emt 00:00:12]} 32.b3 {(b3) [%eval -408,27] [%emt 00:01:03]} Qe4 {(Nd4) [%eval 546,28] [%emt 00:00:13]} 33.Kf1 {(Kf1) [%eval -408,5] [%emt 00:00:00]} h4 {(Ng5) [%eval 565,26] [%emt 00:00:08]} 34.Rac1 {(Rab1) [%eval -431,27] [%emt 00:00:42]} Ng5 {(Ng5) [%eval 591,26] [%emt 00:00:10]} 35.c4 {(c4) [%eval -467,27] [%emt 00:01:33]} Qf3 {(Qf3) [%eval 588,28] [%emt 00:00:14]} 36.Ke1 {(Rd4) [%eval -480,25] [%emt 00:00:17]} Ne4 {(Ne4) [%eval 902,27] [%emt 00:00:14]} 37.Rc2 {(Rc2) [%eval -495,26] [%emt 00:00:14]} Nxd6 {(Nxd6) [%eval 942,27] [%emt 00:00:14]} 38.Re2 {(Kd2) [%eval -541,22] [%emt 00:00:15]} h3 {(bxc4) [%eval 987,24] [%emt 00:00:12]} 39.Re3 {(Re3) [%eval -527,20] [%emt 00:00:08]} Qg2 {(Qg4) [%eval 1044,24] [%emt 00:00:13]} 40.cxb5 {(Ke2) [%eval -580,22] [%emt 00:00:28]} h2 {(h2) [%eval 1292,25] [%emt 00:00:13]} 41.Kd2 {(Kd2) [%eval -597,21] [%emt 00:00:08]} 0-1

[Uri Blass]

I see that the moves are not book moves and not sure what happened.

I did not watch the game in the first moves but only looked at the position in the middle of the game and saw white is losing and tried to see the current game by clicking on pgn and I think it showed me the notation book near the moves.

I say I think because I am not 100% sure that the source of the word book is in the site and maybe some software in my computer changed the pgn and added the word book for some reason.

[petero2]

It seems that these are not the only book moves
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3

I download the game and I see many book moves after 3.c3 and black got a winning position out of book after 21.Kh1

Not sure how you got that.

The incorrect PGN can be downloaded from ccrl.live:

https://ccrl.live/pgns/Top_Engines_Unfa ... .0-dev.pgn

I have only seen the "false" book moves happen when I visit the web page for a tournament and I am the only visitor.

[Graham Banks]

It seems that these are not the only book moves
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3

I download the game and I see many book moves after 3.c3 and black got a winning position out of book after 21.Kh1

Not sure how you got that.

The incorrect PGN can be downloaded from ccrl.live:

https://ccrl.live/pgns/Top_Engines_Unfa ... .0-dev.pgn

I have only seen the "false" book moves happen when I visit the web page for a tournament and I am the only visitor.

That seems quite strange regarding the PGN.
People are best to download them from CCRL public forum.

[jhonnold]

The integration with the backend server is best guess effort. The UI is not told what moves are book, but it tries to infer. It will be wrong a lot.

[Graham Banks]

TOP ENGINES UNFASHIONABLE OPENINGS

AMD Ryzen 5950x
ChessGUI
256mb hash each where possible
6 piece tablebases
Ponder off
UnfashionableLines.cgb book
12 minutes with 8 second increments.
10 cycles 140 rounds
All engines 1CPU (64-bit where available)

Each of the following 10 opening lines will be played in each of the 10 cycles:

1. b4
1. Nc3
1. e4 d5 2. exd5
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3
1. d4 f5
1. f3
1. e4 e5 2. f4
1. e4 Nf6
1. f4 e5 *
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6

Standings after Round 70

42.5 - Stockfish 16.1 64-bit
39.0 - Dragon 3.3 by Komodo 64-bit
38.5 - Torch v2 64-bit
37.0 - Berserk 13 64-bit
33.0 - Obsidian 12.0 64-bit
31.0 - RubiChess 20240112 64-bit
30.0 - PlentyChess 1.0.0 64-bit
29.0 - Caissa 1.18 64-bit

[Graham Banks]

The next cycle will feature 1. f4 e5

[Graham Banks]

TOP ENGINES UNFASHIONABLE OPENINGS

AMD Ryzen 5950x
ChessGUI
256mb hash each where possible
6 piece tablebases
Ponder off
UnfashionableLines.cgb book
12 minutes with 8 second increments.
10 cycles 140 rounds
All engines 1CPU (64-bit where available)

Each of the following 10 opening lines will be played in each of the 10 cycles:

1. b4
1. Nc3
1. e4 d5 2. exd5
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3
1. d4 f5
1. f3
1. e4 e5 2. f4
1. e4 Nf6
1. f4 e5 *
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6

Standings after Round 84

52.0 - Stockfish 16.1 64-bit
46.5 - Dragon 3.3 by Komodo 64-bit
45.5 - Torch v2 64-bit
44.0 - Berserk 13 64-bit
39.5 - Obsidian 12.0 64-bit
38.0 - RubiChess 20240112 64-bit
35.5 - PlentyChess 1.0.0 64-bit
35.0 - Caissa 1.18 64-bit

[Graham Banks]

The next cycle will feature 1. d4 f5

[Graham Banks]

TOP ENGINES UNFASHIONABLE OPENINGS

AMD Ryzen 5950x
ChessGUI
256mb hash each where possible
6 piece tablebases
Ponder off
UnfashionableLines.cgb book
12 minutes with 8 second increments.
10 cycles 140 rounds
All engines 1CPU (64-bit where available)

Each of the following 10 opening lines will be played in each of the 10 cycles:

1. b4
1. Nc3
1. e4 d5 2. exd5
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3
1. d4 f5
1. f3
1. e4 e5 2. f4
1. e4 Nf6
1. f4 e5 *
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6

Standings after Round 98

61.0 - Stockfish 16.1 64-bit
54.5 - Torch v2 64-bit
53.5 - Dragon 3.3 by Komodo 64-bit
51.0 - Berserk 13 64-bit
45.5 - Obsidian 12.0 64-bit
44.0 - RubiChess 20240112 64-bit
41.5 - PlentyChess 1.0.0 64-bit
41.0 - Caissa 1.18 64-bit