Test position: Nice Kasparov move

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metax
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:56 pm
Location: Germany

Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by metax »

[d]r2qk2r/1b3ppp/p2p1b2/2nNp3/1R2P3/2P5/1PN2PPP/3QKB1R w Kkq -

Kasparov - Shirov, 1994


Kasparov played 1.Rxb7! and won. Does your engine see the move?
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michiguel
Posts: 6401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by michiguel »

metax wrote:[d]r2qk2r/1b3ppp/p2p1b2/2nNp3/1R2P3/2P5/1PN2PPP/3QKB1R w Kkq -

Kasparov - Shirov, 1994


Kasparov played 1.Rxb7! and won. Does your engine see the move?
Gaviota likes it as sticks to it after 12.2 seconds.
AMD 2X 2.4 Ghz
(Version v0.74.63.L23.N02)

Miguel

Code: Select all

       354   1:      0.0    +0.47  1.Nce3
      1223   2:      0.0    +0.05  1.Nce3 Bc6
      5483   3:      0.0    +0.61  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4
      6129   4       0.0      :-(  1.Rxb7
     13100   4       0.0    +0.22  1.Nce3 Bxd5 2.Nxd5 O-O
     17953   4:      0.1    +0.22  1.Nce3 Bxd5 2.Nxd5 O-O
     39524   5       0.1    +0.50  1.Nce3 Bg5 2.Bd3 Bxe3 3.Nxe3
     43313   5:      0.1    +0.50  1.Nce3 Bg5 2.Bd3 Bxe3 3.Nxe3
     76977   6       0.3    +0.25  1.Nce3 O-O 2.Bc4 Bg5 3.Rxb7 Nxb7
    101164   6:      0.3    +0.25  1.Nce3 O-O 2.Bc4 Bg5 3.Rxb7 Nxb7
    166571   7       0.5    +0.31  1.Nce3 O-O 2.Bc4 Bc6 3.Rb6 Bxd5 4.Nxd5
                                   Nxe4 5.Bxa6
    211375   7       0.6    +0.60  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Qg4 a5 4.Bb5
                                   axb4 5.cxb4
    237563   7:      0.6    +0.60  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Qg4 a5 4.Bb5
                                   axb4 5.cxb4
    278085   8       0.7    +0.22  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Qg4 Kh8 4.Qf3
                                   Bh4
   1136606   8       2.3    +0.33  1.Bc4 Bc6 2.O-O O-O 3.Qf3 a5 4.Rb5 Bxb5
                                   5.Bxb5
   1222435   8:      2.5    +0.33  1.Bc4 Bc6 2.O-O O-O 3.Qf3 a5 4.Rb5 Bxb5
                                   5.Bxb5
   3710369   9       7.0    +0.45  1.Bc4 a5 2.Rxb7 Nxb7 3.Qf3 Nc5 4.O-O
                                   O-O 5.Nce3
   3956575   9:      7.5    +0.45  1.Bc4 a5 2.Rxb7 Nxb7 3.Qf3 Nc5 4.O-O
                                   O-O 5.Nce3
   5806595  10      10.8    +0.37  1.Bc4 a5 2.Rxb7 Nxb7 3.Qf3 Nc5 4.Bb5+
                                   Kf8 5.O-O Rb8 6.c4
   6626452  10      12.3    +0.41  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Bc4 Qd7 4.Nxf6+
                                   gxf6 5.Ne3 Qc6 6.Qg4+ Kh8 7.O-O Rg8
   7190888  10:     13.3    +0.41  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Bc4 Qd7 4.Nxf6+
                                   gxf6 5.Ne3 Qc6 6.Qg4+ Kh8 7.O-O Rg8
   7845329  11      14.6    +0.23  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Bc4 a5 4.Qg4
                                   axb4 5.cxb4 Kh8 6.O-O Qc8
  22199012  11:     41.4    +0.23  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Bc4 a5 4.Qg4
                                   axb4 5.cxb4 Kh8 6.O-O Qc8
  24612345  12      45.5    +0.33  1.Rxb7 Nxb7 2.b4 O-O 3.Bc4 a5 4.O-O
                                   axb4 5.cxb4 Qd7 6.Nxf6+ gxf6 7.Ne3 Rfc8
                                   8.Qh5
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by zullil »

metax wrote:[d]r2qk2r/1b3ppp/p2p1b2/2nNp3/1R2P3/2P5/1PN2PPP/3QKB1R w Kkq -

Kasparov - Shirov, 1994


Kasparov played 1.Rxb7! and won. Does your engine see the move?
Stockfish-1.6.2 (8 threads) prefers Nce3, or so it seems:

Code: Select all

Searching: r2qk2r/1b3ppp/p2p1b2/2nNp3/1R2P3/2P5/1PN2PPP/3QKB1R w Kkq -
infinite: 1 ponder: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0
 2     -1.13   00:00      467 Qh5 O-O 
 2     -0.53   00:00      674 Rb6 O-O Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 
 3     -0.53   00:00     1243 Rb6 O-O Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 
 3     -0.24   00:00     2269 Bd3 Bxd5 exd5 
 3     +0.24   00:00     2800 Bc4 O-O O-O 
 4     +0.00   00:00     3414 Bc4 O-O O-O a5 
 5     +0.24   00:00     5568 Bc4 O-O O-O a5 Rb6 
 6     +0.08   00:00    10484 Bc4 O-O O-O a5 Rb5 a4 
 7  <  -0.48   00:00    30699 Bc4 O-O O-O a5 Rb5 Bc6 
 8     -0.57   00:00    57679 Bc4 O-O O-O a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxb7 Nxb7 Ne3 Rfb8 Nd5 
                              Qg5 
 9     -0.97   00:00   276519 Bc4 O-O O-O a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rb6 Bxe4 f3 Bxc2 Qxc2 
                              Rfb8 Rxb8+ Rxb8 Rd1 
 9     -0.57   00:00   745554 Be2 Bg5 O-O O-O Rc4 a5 b4 axb4 cxb4 Bxd5 Qxd5 
10     -0.93   00:00   982615 Be2 O-O Nce3 Bg5 h4 Bxh4 Nf5 Bxd5 exd5 Bg5 
10     -0.40   00:00    1133k Rb6 O-O Nce3 Bxd5 Nxd5 Nxe4 Bd3 Nc5 O-O Rb8 Rxb8 
                              Qxb8 Nxf6+ gxf6 
11  <  -0.73   00:01    1956k Rb6 Bxd5 Qxd5 Qxb6 Qxa8+ Bd8 b4 O-O Ne3 Bh4 
11  >  -0.08   00:01    2317k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bxd5 Nxd5 Nxe4 Bd3 Nc5 Nxf6+ gxf6 
                              Rxd6 Qxd6 Bxh7+ 
12     -0.08   00:01    2878k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bxd5 Nxd5 Nxe4 Bd3 Nc5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 
                              Rxd6 Nxd3+ Qxd3 Rfd8 Rxf6 Rxd3 Rb6 Rad8 Ke2 Rd2+ 
                              Ke3 
13     -0.36   00:01    4266k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bxd5 Nxd5 Nxe4 Bd3 Nc5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 
                              Rxd6 Nxd3+ Qxd3 Rfd8 Rxf6 Rxd3 Rb6 Rad8 Ke2 Rd2+ 
                              Kf3 f5 Re1 R8d3+ Re3 e4+ Kg3 
14     -0.16   00:02    7947k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bg5 Nc4 Bxd5 Qxd5 Nxe4 h4 Bd2+ Nxd2 
                              Qxb6 Nxe4 Qxb2 Nxd6 Qxc3+ Qd2 Qa1+ Qd1 Qa5+ Qd2 
15     +0.00   00:03   18090k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bg5 Nc4 Bxd5 exd5 Be7 Be2 Nd7 Rc6 
                              Nb8 Rb6 Nd7 
16     +0.08   00:04   26058k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bg5 Nc4 Bxd5 exd5 Be7 Be2 Nd7 Rb3 a5 
                              O-O Qc7 Ra3 Nc5 Re1 Rfb8 Bg4 a4 
17     +0.04   00:08   51720k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bg5 Nc4 Bxd5 exd5 Be7 Be2 Nd7 Rb3 a5 
                              O-O Qc7 Ra3 Nc5 Re1 Rfb8 Bg4 a4 Qd2 Bh4 g3 
18     +0.00   00:11   74567k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bxd5 Nxd5 a5 Qc2 a4 Bc4 a3 bxa3 Ra4 
                              Rb4 Rxa3 Nxf6+ Qxf6 O-O Qd8 Rd1 Qd7 f3 
19     +0.08   00:21  149554k Nce3 O-O Rb6 Bxd5 Nxd5 a5 Qc2 a4 Bc4 a3 bxa3 Ra4 
                              Rb4 Rxa3 O-O Bh4 Rfb1 Bg5 Rb6 Qd7 f3 
20     +0.12   00:40  297932k Nce3 O-O Rb6 a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 Qe7 Bc4 Rab8 O-O 
                              Bxe4 f3 Bg6 Rf2 Qg5 Nd5 Rfc8 Nb6 Rd8 Rxd8+ Qxd8 
                              Qxd8+ Rxd8 Re2 
21  >  +0.32   01:15  549924k Nce3 Bg5 Nf5 Bxd5 Qxd5 O-O Nxd6 Qa5 Ke2 Rfd8 Qxe5 
22     +0.20   05:16    2347M Nce3 O-O Rb6 a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 Qe7 Bc4 Bxe4 O-O 
                              Rfd8 Rxd8+ Rxd8 Qg4 g6 b4 h5 Qg3 axb4 cxb4 Na4 b5 
                              Rd2 f3 Bd3 Bxd3 Rxd3 Ra1 h4 
23     +0.28   09:03    4019M Nce3 O-O Rb6 a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 Qe7 Bc4 Bxe4 O-O 
                              Rfd8 Rxd8+ Rxd8 Qg4 a4 Rd1 Rxd1+ Qxd1 Bc6 Qe2 Bd7 
                              Qh5 Ne4 Bd5 Nf6 Qd1 Qc5 
24     +0.20   17:14    7652M Nce3 O-O Rb6 a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 Qe7 Bc4 Bxe4 O-O 
                              Rfd8 Rxd8+ Rxd8 Qg4 a4 Rd1 Rb8 Rd2 Bg6 Nf5 Bxf5 
                              Qxf5 g6 Qg4 Kg7 Qe2 f6 Qe3 h6 
25     +0.12   31:47   14133M Nce3 O-O Rb6 a5 Nxf6+ Qxf6 Rxd6 Qh4 g3 Qe7 Bc4 
                              Bxe4 O-O Rab8 Rd2 a4 Qe2 Rfe8 Ra1 Bg6 Rdd1 Qb7 
                              Nd5 Ne4 f3 Nc5 Nb4 Bf5 Bd5 
Nodes: 15958727800
Nodes/second: 7425174
Best move: Nce3
Ponder move: O-O
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by zullil »

metax wrote:[d]r2qk2r/1b3ppp/p2p1b2/2nNp3/1R2P3/2P5/1PN2PPP/3QKB1R w Kkq -

Kasparov - Shirov, 1994


Kasparov played 1.Rxb7! and won. Does your engine see the move?
Crafty agrees with Stockfish:

Code: Select all

Crafty v23.1 (8 cpus)

White(1): book off
book file disabled.
White(1): setboard r2qk2r/1b3ppp/p2p1b2/2nNp3/1R2P3/2P5/1PN2PPP/3QKB1R w Kkq -
White(1): st 600
search time set to 600.00.
White(1): display stats
display statistics at end of each search.
White(1): go
              time limit 10:00 (+0.00) (10:00)
              depth   time  score   variation (1)
starting thread 1
starting thread 2
starting thread 3
starting thread 4
starting thread 5
starting thread 6
starting thread 7
                7->   0.04   0.05   1. Bc4 O-O 2. O-O Bh4 3. Qh5 Qg5 4.
                                    Be2 Qxh5 5. Bxh5 (s=3)
                8     0.05   0.05   1. Bc4 O-O 2. O-O Bh4 3. Qf3 Qg5 4.
                                    Kh1 Kh8 (s=2)
                8->   0.06   0.05   1. Bc4 O-O 2. O-O Bh4 3. Qf3 Qg5 4.
                                    Kh1 Kh8
                9     0.07     -1   1. Bc4?                          
                9     0.09  -0.43   1. Bc4 O-O 2. Qf3 Bxd5 3. Bxd5 a5 4.
                                    Rb5 Qd7 5. Rb6
                9     0.11  -0.30   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Bb5+ Rxb5 6. Qc6+ Ke7
                                    7. Qxb5 Nxe4
                9->   0.14  -0.30   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Bb5+ Rxb5 6. Qc6+ Ke7
                                    7. Qxb5 Nxe4 (s=3)
               10     0.16  -0.19   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 (s=2)
               10->   0.19  -0.19   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 (s=3)
               11     0.30  -0.33   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. f3 O-O 3. Rb6 Bxe4
                                    4. fxe4 Qh4+ 5. Ke2 Nxe4 6. Qe1 Qg4+
                                    7. Kd3 Nc5+ 8. Kd2 (s=2)
               11->   0.38  -0.33   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. f3 O-O 3. Rb6 Bxe4
                                    4. fxe4 Qh4+ 5. Ke2 Nxe4 6. Qe1 Qg4+
                                    7. Kd3 Nc5+ 8. Kd2
               12     0.52  -0.41   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Nb4 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. Nxa6 Nxa6
                                    7. Bxa6 Ke7
               12     0.89  -0.15   1. Rb6 O-O 2. Nxf6+ Qxf6 3. f3 Bxe4
                                    4. fxe4 Qh4+ 5. Ke2 Nxe4 6. Qe1 Qg4+
                                    7. Kd3 Nc5+ 8. Kd2 Qf4+ 9. Kd1 <HT>
               12->   0.96  -0.15   1. Rb6 O-O 2. Nxf6+ Qxf6 3. f3 Bxe4
                                    4. fxe4 Qh4+ 5. Ke2 Nxe4 6. Qe1 Qg4+
                                    7. Kd3 Nc5+ 8. Kd2 Qf4+ 9. Kd1 <HT>
                                    (s=3)
               13     1.33  -0.40   1. Rb6 Bxd5 2. Qxd5 Qxb6 3. Qxa8+ Bd8
                                    4. b4 O-O 5. Bc4 Bg5 6. Qd5 Na4 7.
                                    Qd3 Nb2 (s=2)
               13     2.04  -0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Rc8 3. Nxf6+ Qxf6
                                    4. Rxd6 Qg5 5. h4 Qf4 6. Qf3 Qxe4 7.
                                    Qxe4 Nxe4 <HT>
               13->   2.04  -0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Rc8 3. Nxf6+ Qxf6
                                    4. Rxd6 Qg5 5. h4 Qf4 6. Qf3 Qxe4 7.
                                    Qxe4 Nxe4 <HT> (s=2)
               14     2.38  -0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bxd5 3. Nxd5 Nxe4
                                    4. Qg4 Nc5 5. b4 Ne6 6. Rxa6 Bg5 7.
                                    Bb5 Rxa6 8. Bxa6
               14->   3.12  -0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bxd5 3. Nxd5 Nxe4
                                    4. Qg4 Nc5 5. b4 Ne6 6. Rxa6 Bg5 7.
                                    Bb5 Rxa6 8. Bxa6 (s=2)
               15     3.69  -0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bxd5 3. Nxd5 Nxe4
                                    4. Qg4 Nc5 5. b4 Ne6 6. Rxa6 Bg5 7.
                                    Bb5 Rxa6 8. Bxa6
               15     4.02   0.01   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 Ke7 8. Qa7+ Ke6 9. Qa2+ Ke7
                                    10. Qa7+
               15->   4.32   0.01   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 Ke7 8. Qa7+ Ke6 9. Qa2+ Ke7
                                    10. Qa7+ (s=2)
               16     4.90   0.08   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 g6 8. O-O Kg7 9. Ra1 Ra8
               16->   5.64   0.08   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 g6 8. O-O Kg7 9. Ra1 Ra8 (s=2)
               17     7.28   0.13   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 g6 8. O-O Kg7 9. Rd1 Qf4 10.
                                    Ne3
               17->   8.90   0.13   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Kf8 6. b4 Nxa6
                                    7. Qxa6 g6 8. O-O Kg7 9. Rd1 Qf4 10.
                                    Ne3
               18    13.42  -0.05   1. Nxf6+ Qxf6 2. Rxb7 Nxb7 3. Qd5 Rb8
                                    4. Bxa6 Nc5 5. Qc6+ Nd7 6. Bb5 Qd8
                                    7. O-O Rb6 8. Qc4 O-O 9. Nb4 Nf6 10.
                                    Nd5 Nxd5 11. Qxd5
               18    26.43   0.01   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rc6 Nb8 7.
                                    Rb6 Nd7
               18->  26.43   0.01   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rc6 Nb8 7.
                                    Rb6 Nd7 (s=2)
               19    35.06   0.01   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rc6 Nb8 7.
                                    Rb6 Nd7
               19->  42.93   0.01   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rc6 Nb8 7.
                                    Rb6 Nd7
               20     1:51   0.13   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rb3 Nc5 7.
                                    Ra3 Bg5 8. O-O Bf4 9. g3 Bg5 10. h4
                                    Bf6
               20->   2:05   0.13   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rb3 Nc5 7.
                                    Ra3 Bg5 8. O-O Bf4 9. g3 Bg5 10. h4
                                    Bf6
               21     3:33   0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rb3 Nc5 7.
                                    Ra3 a5 8. O-O a4 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Qf5
                                    Kh8 11. Rd1
               21->   4:14   0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rb3 Nc5 7.
                                    Ra3 a5 8. O-O a4 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Qf5
                                    Kh8 11. Rd1
               22     6:16   0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rb3 Nc5 7.
                                    Ra3 a5 8. O-O a4 9. Bh5 Bh4 10. Qf3
                                    Qc7 11. Qg4 Qe7
               22->   7:22   0.12   1. Nce3 O-O 2. Rb6 Bg5 3. Nc4 Bxd5
                                    4. exd5 Be7 5. Be2 Nd7 6. Rb3 Nc5 7.
                                    Ra3 a5 8. O-O a4 9. Bh5 Bh4 10. Qf3
                                    Qc7 11. Qg4 Qe7
              time=10:00  mat=0  n=12697961552  fh=92%  nps=21.2M     
              extensions=510.2M qchecks=424.7M reduced=1277.7M pruned=895.7M
              predicted=0  evals=1033.5M  50move=0  EGTBprobes=0  hits=0
              SMP->  splits=927351  aborts=123777  data=67/512  elap=10:00
terminating SMP processes.
White(1): Nce3
              time used:  10:00
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rlsuth
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by rlsuth »

Do you have the game score? I cant, for the life of me, see why this would be a good move.
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User avatar
michiguel
Posts: 6401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by michiguel »

rlsuth wrote:Do you have the game score? I cant, for the life of me, see why this would be a good move.
It is a pure positional sacrifice. After Bb7 is gone, all white squares become dominated by white pieces. In fact, Nd5 turns into a monster Knight.

Miguel
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by zullil »

michiguel wrote:
rlsuth wrote:Do you have the game score? I cant, for the life of me, see why this would be a good move.
It is a pure positional sacrifice. After Bb7 is gone, all white squares become dominated by white pieces. In fact, Nd5 turns into a monster Knight.

Miguel
Yes, I thought the same. But one wonders if the sac is really better than simply reinforcing the knight via Nce3, as suggested by both Crafty and Stockfish. Apparently Kasparov thought so, and his opinion is worth something.
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rlsuth
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by rlsuth »

I found the complete game here: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070699

Very interesting and instructive game.

The comments underneath the game are very interesting too.
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yanquis1972
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by yanquis1972 »

another question to ask, for engines that prefer Nce3, is how they evaluate this position after a good think. this is kasparov's position after NxR b4

ivanhoe is showing near equal but nothing close to an edge for white after a couple minutes, suggesting simply 0-0 -.19.

[d]r2qk2r/1n3ppp/p2p1b2/3Np3/1P2P3/2P5/2N2PPP/3QKB1R b Kkq b3 0 2

imo it is is pretty amazing that gaviota found this move. miguel must've but a lot of positional knowledge in her (?)
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Marc MP

Re: Test position: Nice Kasparov move

Post by Marc MP »

zullil wrote:
michiguel wrote:
rlsuth wrote:Do you have the game score? I cant, for the life of me, see why this would be a good move.
It is a pure positional sacrifice. After Bb7 is gone, all white squares become dominated by white pieces. In fact, Nd5 turns into a monster Knight.

Miguel
Yes, I thought the same. But one wonders if the sac is really better than simply reinforcing the knight via Nce3, as suggested by both Crafty and Stockfish. Apparently Kasparov thought so, and his opinion is worth something.
Other factors to consider are the psychological value of the novelty (its a human game!) and the extend of home preparation. Even if the sacrifice is just as good as the knight move, I'm quite sure Kasparov had previously prepared this at home and was aware of "how to play the position" and probably also gained substantial time on the clock.
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