My draw with an FM on ICC

[nuff]

I wanted to see whether my skills have been damaged by watching too many engine-vs-engine contests in Arena so I took on an ICC trial. I offered a draw somewhere around move 40 which he declined.

[Event "ICC 15 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2007.04.25"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Vendetta"]
[Black "nuff"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ICCResult "Game drawn by mutual agreement"]
[WhiteElo "2251"]
[BlackElo "2220"]
[Opening "Canard opening"]
[ECO "A45"]
[NIC "QP.07"]
[Time "11:37:03"]
[TimeControl "900+0"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. f4 d5 3. Nf3 e6 4. e3 Be7 5. Bd3 O-O 6. Nbd2 c5 7. c3 b6 8. Qe2
Bb7 9. O-O Nc6 10. Ne5 Qc7 11. Rf3 Nxe5 12. fxe5 Ne4 13. Rh3 g6 14. Qg4 Nxd2
15. Bxd2 Qd7 16. Rf1 f5 17. exf6 Rxf6 18. Rhf3 Raf8 19. a3 Rxf3 20. Rxf3
Rxf3 21. gxf3 Bf8 22. Be1 Qf7 23. Bg3 Bg7 24. Qf4 Qxf4 25. Bxf4 a6 26. Kf2
Kf7 27. a4 c4 28. Bc2 b5 29. axb5 axb5 30. Be5 Bf8 31. Ke2 Bc6 32. Kd2 Be7
33. Bd1 Bg5 34. Be2 Bd7 35. Bf1 Be7 36. Bg2 Bg5 37. Bh3 Bc6 38. Bc7 Ke7 39.
Ba5 Kf7 40. Ke2 Ke7 41. Bb4+ Kf7 42. Bg2 Bh4 43. Bd6 Bg5 44. Bg3 Ke7 45. Be1
Kf7 46. Bd2 Be7 47. e4 Bf6 48. Bf4 Bh4 49. Bg3 Be7 50. e5 b4 51. Kd2 bxc3+
52. bxc3 Ba4 53. f4 Bb3 54. Bf3 Ba4 55. Bf2 {Game drawn by mutual agreement}
1/2-1/2

[Terry McCracken]

I wanted to see whether my skills have been damaged by watching too many engine-vs-engine contests in Arena so I took on an ICC trial. I offered a draw somewhere around move 40 which he declined.

[Event "ICC 15 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2007.04.25"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Vendetta"]
[Black "nuff"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ICCResult "Game drawn by mutual agreement"]
[WhiteElo "2251"]
[BlackElo "2220"]
[Opening "Canard opening"]
[ECO "A45"]
[NIC "QP.07"]
[Time "11:37:03"]
[TimeControl "900+0"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. f4 d5 3. Nf3 e6 4. e3 Be7 5. Bd3 O-O 6. Nbd2 c5 7. c3 b6 8. Qe2
Bb7 9. O-O Nc6 10. Ne5 Qc7 11. Rf3 Nxe5 12. fxe5 Ne4 13. Rh3 g6 14. Qg4 Nxd2
15. Bxd2 Qd7 16. Rf1 f5 17. exf6 Rxf6 18. Rhf3 Raf8 19. a3 Rxf3 20. Rxf3
Rxf3 21. gxf3 Bf8 22. Be1 Qf7 23. Bg3 Bg7 24. Qf4 Qxf4 25. Bxf4 a6 26. Kf2
Kf7 27. a4 c4 28. Bc2 b5 29. axb5 axb5 30. Be5 Bf8 31. Ke2 Bc6 32. Kd2 Be7
33. Bd1 Bg5 34. Be2 Bd7 35. Bf1 Be7 36. Bg2 Bg5 37. Bh3 Bc6 38. Bc7 Ke7 39.
Ba5 Kf7 40. Ke2 Ke7 41. Bb4+ Kf7 42. Bg2 Bh4 43. Bd6 Bg5 44. Bg3 Ke7 45. Be1
Kf7 46. Bd2 Be7 47. e4 Bf6 48. Bf4 Bh4 49. Bg3 Be7 50. e5 b4 51. Kd2 bxc3+
52. bxc3 Ba4 53. f4 Bb3 54. Bf3 Ba4 55. Bf2 {Game drawn by mutual agreement}
1/2-1/2

Your friend missed 18. Rxh7!! winning outright!

[d]r5k1/pb1qb2p/1p2prp1/2pp4/3P2Q1/2PBP2R/PP1B2PP/5RK1 w - - 0 18

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

[Graham Banks]

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

Anybody can suffer "chess blindness", even the very best players.

[Terry McCracken]

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

Anybody can suffer "chess blindness", even the very best players.

Possible, but it would seem dubious, I've seen and played combinations of that complexity often at G/5 and and even G/2!

[nuff]

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

Anybody can suffer "chess blindness", even the very best players.

Possible, but it would seem dubious, I've seen and played combinations of that complexity often at G/5 and and even G/2!

Hi Terry if you have access to ICC run the following command

Code: Select all

finger Vendetta

Information about Vendetta(FM) (Last disconnected Wed Apr 25 2007 12:08):

              rating [need] win  loss  draw total   best
Crazyhouse      1648  [6]     2     2     0     4                      
Bullet          2025       6685  4113   556 11354   2178 (23-Dec-2006) 
Blitz           2370       2495  2340   602  5437   2680 (09-Feb-2007) 
Standard        2251       1388   368   245  2001   2415 (31-Mar-2005) 
5-minute        2071        884   791   260  1935   2210 (04-Dec-2005) 
1-minute        2007  [8]  2275  2131   202  4608   2029 (10-Feb-2006) 
Groups : FMs

As you can see he is an FM on the ICC server. Even GMs miss things in 2 hour games much less 15 or 30 minute rapid games. Run an engine alongside a human GM's games in rapid chess and you will see.

[Terry McCracken]

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

Anybody can suffer "chess blindness", even the very best players.

Possible, but it would seem dubious, I've seen and played combinations of that complexity often at G/5 and and even G/2!

Hi Terry if you have access to ICC run the following command

Code: Select all

finger Vendetta

Information about Vendetta(FM) (Last disconnected Wed Apr 25 2007 12:08):

              rating [need] win  loss  draw total   best
Crazyhouse      1648  [6]     2     2     0     4                      
Bullet          2025       6685  4113   556 11354   2178 (23-Dec-2006) 
Blitz           2370       2495  2340   602  5437   2680 (09-Feb-2007) 
Standard        2251       1388   368   245  2001   2415 (31-Mar-2005) 
5-minute        2071        884   791   260  1935   2210 (04-Dec-2005) 
1-minute        2007  [8]  2275  2131   202  4608   2029 (10-Feb-2006) 
Groups : FMs

As you can see he is an FM on the ICC server. Even GMs miss things in 2 hour games much less 15 or 30 minute rapid games. Run an engine alongside a human GM's games in rapid chess and you will see.

They do but usually not something so simple and not very often.

Most experts/masters and upwards would have considered 18. Rxh7! very quickly, in fact even strong club playes would most likely spot the shot, it's a very common theme.

It seems your friend was having an off day or he/she, was just careless as they underestimated you. Whatever the reason, I'd never have shown this game, when clearly lost on move ..17.

[nuff]

I don't consider the game a masterpiece and I did not run it in an engine. I was actually pleased that contrary to reports, there is little or no cheating on ICC. If you think the FM missing that is a big deal what about Kramnik vs Fritz missing a mate in one? Or Topalov's blunder in the playoff's? Do you have any comments WRT the ending?

[Uri Blass]

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

Anybody can suffer "chess blindness", even the very best players.

Possible, but it would seem dubious, I've seen and played combinations of that complexity often at G/5 and and even G/2!

Hi Terry if you have access to ICC run the following command

Code: Select all

finger Vendetta

Information about Vendetta(FM) (Last disconnected Wed Apr 25 2007 12:08):

              rating [need] win  loss  draw total   best
Crazyhouse      1648  [6]     2     2     0     4                      
Bullet          2025       6685  4113   556 11354   2178 (23-Dec-2006) 
Blitz           2370       2495  2340   602  5437   2680 (09-Feb-2007) 
Standard        2251       1388   368   245  2001   2415 (31-Mar-2005) 
5-minute        2071        884   791   260  1935   2210 (04-Dec-2005) 
1-minute        2007  [8]  2275  2131   202  4608   2029 (10-Feb-2006) 
Groups : FMs

As you can see he is an FM on the ICC server. Even GMs miss things in 2 hour games much less 15 or 30 minute rapid games. Run an engine alongside a human GM's games in rapid chess and you will see.

They do but usually not something so simple and not very often.

Most experts/masters and upwards would have considered 18. Rxh7! very quickly, in fact even strong club playes would most likely spot the shot, it's a very common theme.

It seems your friend was having an off day or he/she, was just careless as they underestimated you. Whatever the reason, I'd never have shown this game, when clearly lost on move ..17.

I do not agree about your opinion that it is something so simple.
Of course if humans know that there is something to find they may find it but in game conditions when humans do not know that there is something to find they can simply not consider some good sacrifice espacially in rapid games(15 minute for all game).

I find the mistakes of kramnik against Fritz clearly worse because Fritz even did not need to sacrifice in order to mate in 1 or win a piece and the mistakes were one ply mistakes.

Uri

[Pradu]

How could an FM miss that in a game 15 I wonder?

Anybody can suffer "chess blindness", even the very best players.

Possible, but it would seem dubious, I've seen and played combinations of that complexity often at G/5 and and even G/2!

You must be very strong to be able to play Rxh7 here in only a few seconds. It took me like 30 seconds or so to show myself that Rxh7 wins espically the Rxf7+ Qxg6 or Qh4 part after RxB or any tactics dealing with Be1. This is atleast a 7-ply tactic ... not so trivial to me at a 2 min game.

[shiv]

Rh7! is actually quite hard to calculate. The main lines could be Kh7 Bg6+! (Rg6 Rf7+ Kh6 Qh3+ Kg5 e4#) Kg8 Be8+ (winning the queen). There are other lines that could distract white (like the immediate Rf1+). It really depends on how much time white had. I imagine that the combination takes a good few minutes to calculate at the very least and can easily elude strong players.

GMs have missed much simpler combinations (I am not including blunders) in longer time controls than G/15.