ACCA stance on Ippo, Robbo and such

[hgm]

Publishing source code under the GPL is in fact giving away all rights on it, except the right of enforcing the GPL. As long as the people using your code do their part of the deal, which is publishing the source of the modifications under the GPL, you can put no restrictions or limitations on what they do with it whatsoever.

If you want to reserve some rights, you should simply not publish under the GPL. E.g. the Crafty license explicitly states that you cannot enter tournaments using Crafty code.

[Rolf]

just wondrin,

is the ACCA tournament that impt.

I don't think the Toga vs. Fruit issue is any different from the Stockfish vs. Glaurung issue. You cannot have both, so you should allow the strongest to participate.

Participating in tournaments is an important marketing activity for commercial engines.

Luckily we don't have this burden nor we want to damage other people's business.

I disagree, in certain cases silence is worse than speaking out loud. Couldnt you make a comment on the ropilito affair with the displaying of stolen Rybka code? You or any other in the team?

???

You are quoting a post of mine where in _no_ place is mentioned the Robbo name..and you say you disagree

But you disagree in what ?

Please don't feel obliged to answer. You can entirely skip this if you feel your answer is not pertinent. Thanks.

You say that you are happy not depending on commercial problems and that you didnt want to harm other peopl's business. Well, I am sure you heard from the ilito case. In case of an already commited damage why not comment if it's true that you at least allegedly dont want to cause damage. - Nobody is forced to answer if someone quotes a word or thought here on CCC. We exchange written text bits. If you take one from me that doesnt mean that you then are forcedly my political ally.

And yes, I'm not a friend of Stockfish (!) who made a big jump after the published R code. So far what damages are concerned. Or do you think that Vasik, the author of R wanted you and the World to know his code? So far about damages...

[Sven]

Publishing source code under the GPL is in fact giving away all rights on it, except the right of enforcing the GPL. As long as the people using your code do their part of the deal, which is publishing the source of the modifications under the GPL, you can put no restrictions or limitations on what they do with it whatsoever.

Agreed, but the critical part is the "as long as ...". People doing modifications must keep the statement about original authorship intact. The original author therefore *forever* remains the original author of that software (assuming GPL-compliant use), and nobody can take away this right from him.

Sven

[Rolf]

Yes thanks. My question was alone concerned about cases where someone did NOT care in the expected manner but more supported his stuff to survive under whatever different legal definition. Who then is responsible, the original author or the tolerated and expected emissary?

[Harvey Williamson]

So if I who knows almost nothing about programming take the GPL code of the latest, strongest, Toga make 1 change that makes it the strongest Toga I will have my own 3000+ elo program that I can enter in an event possibly win a prize and claim I am one of the best Chess Engine authors. I will be back later today with my 3000+ engine This must make genuine authors like you, Harm, feel your efforts in producing a nice engine like joker are less rewarding?

[michiguel]

Publishing source code under the GPL is in fact giving away all rights on it, except the right of enforcing the GPL. As long as the people using your code do their part of the deal, which is publishing the source of the modifications under the GPL, you can put no restrictions or limitations on what they do with it whatsoever.

Agreed, but the critical part is the "as long as ...". People doing modifications must keep the statement about original authorship intact. The original author therefore *forever* remains the original author of that software (assuming GPL-compliant use), and nobody can take away this right from him.

Sven

Besides, Chess organizations are not bound to the GPL and they can established whatever rules they want. For instance, if an author cannot be part of more than one team, that immediately blocks the chance for different versions of GPL programs. Only one can participate. Which one? that is a different story, but if a simple rule is applied in which every author should give consent to participate in a tournament, the original author can just deny the consent of the derivatives. This has nothing to do with GPL because the tournaments are a competition between authors, not between engines in a vacuum.

If that rule is not set, then I guess it should be first come first serve.

Miguel

[swami]

So if I who knows almost nothing about programming take the GPL code of the latest, strongest, Toga make 1 change that makes it the strongest Toga I will have my own 3000+ elo program that I can enter in an event possibly win a prize and claim I am one of the best Chess Engine authors. I will be back later today with my 3000+ engine

You can't enter the derivative engine on your own.

You need approval from Fabien, if you have a derivative that's based on Fruit.

[Harvey Williamson]

So if I who knows almost nothing about programming take the GPL code of the latest, strongest, Toga make 1 change that makes it the strongest Toga I will have my own 3000+ elo program that I can enter in an event possibly win a prize and claim I am one of the best Chess Engine authors. I will be back later today with my 3000+ engine

You can't enter the engine on your own. You need approval from Fabien, if you have a derivative that's based on Fruit.

That is not what Harm is suggesting which is why I make this point - you should read what I was replying to.

[hgm]

So if I who knows almost nothing about programming take the GPL code of the latest, strongest, Toga make 1 change that makes it the strongest Toga I will have my own 3000+ elo program that I can enter in an event possibly win a prize and claim I am one of the best Chess Engine authors. I will be back later today with my 3000+ engine

No, you can not. You can only claim to be co-author. But that should not stop you from entering the program in a tournament on behalf of you and the original author, with who you now teamed up.

Team efforts are always a bit fuzzy. What would you do if two authors who had until now cooperated on an engine start to disagree about the direction the development should take, and each start their own fork? Would you accept both of them in a tourney? One of them? Or neither one, unless the other co-signs the registration?

[hgm]

You can't enter the derivative engine on your own.

You need approval from Fabien, if you have a derivative that's based on Fruit.

This is not true. Fabien already gave that permission. By releasing under GPL. And he cannot revoke it. So it is a bit pointless asking him.