GM Joel Benjamin vs Leela Knight Odds Classical match

[Peter Berger]

These are good ideas, the programmers have similar ideas, they just haven't had time to implement them yet.

I wonder whether you have experimented with fake thinking time at first, which really feels completely trivial to implement.

Uri seems to suggest something similar at times ( and yes, this is a setup that will be most easy to improve on if it works, obviously). Given how strong you are as a human player I feel I don't have to explain how this might even work in Leela's favour. With 30 secs increment you can't apply +real+ pressure on the clock anyway, so this is all about psychology on the human side IMHO.

[lkaufman]

These are good ideas, the programmers have similar ideas, they just haven't had time to implement them yet.

I wonder whether you have experimented with fake thinking time at first, which really feels completely trivial to implement.

Uri seems to suggest something similar at times ( and yes, this is a setup that will be most easy to improve on if it works, obviously). Given how strong you are as a human player I feel I don't have to explain how this might even work in Leela's favour. With 30 secs increment you can't apply +real+ pressure on the clock anyway, so this is all about psychology on the human side IMHO.

I don't believe that adding fake thinking time would improve Leela's chances, and I don't recall Uri ever advocating "fake" thinking time. Most players believe that having the opponent move quickly (playing the same moves) is more disturbing than taking more time to find the same move. Such psychological questions would depend on the individual, but I personally would welcome the opponent (engine or human) taking a few extra seconds to play the same moves. The present method of moving at bullet chess speed seems to be incredibly effective in Rapid games at least. It's probably much less significant at one hour plus 30", but not allowing the opponent to think on Leela's time should favor Leela marginally.

[Uri Blass]

These are good ideas, the programmers have similar ideas, they just haven't had time to implement them yet.

I wonder whether you have experimented with fake thinking time at first, which really feels completely trivial to implement.

Uri seems to suggest something similar at times ( and yes, this is a setup that will be most easy to improve on if it works, obviously). Given how strong you are as a human player I feel I don't have to explain how this might even work in Leela's favour. With 30 secs increment you can't apply +real+ pressure on the clock anyway, so this is all about psychology on the human side IMHO.

i am not sure what you mean with fake thinking time but using more time on the clock when you do nothing at that time does not help and I never suggested it.

Using more time is good only if you can play better moves thanks to having more time and in this case of course I see no reason to define it as fake thinking time.

[lkaufman]

Match in progress. Go to Matthew Sadler's "Silicon Road" YouTube channel to see his stream of the event.

[lkaufman]

Score 2.5 to 0.5 in favor of Joel. Match resumes in ten minutes.

[lkaufman]

Joel leads 4 to 3, final game about to start on Silicon Road Youtube channel

[Father]

Joel leads 4 to 3, final game about to start on Silicon Road Youtube channel

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. Thank you very much for the information. I wonder if it is possible to watch the games in Lichess? I would like to study them with the computer's analysis control.
Personally, I consider every tie a cyber scourge and every victory of the computer against the human with Odds, for me, is something unimaginable until recently. Now if the ribal is a GM human, the problem is much greater. Congratulations to the Leela team. Congratulations to GM Joel, defeating the machine is another epic feat. Battle between giants. Thank you for teaching us how great human thought is, and the creations of machine art and chess.

[lkaufman]

Joel leads 4 to 3, final game about to start on Silicon Road Youtube channel

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. Thank you very much for the information. I wonder if it is possible to watch the games in Lichess? I would like to study them with the computer's analysis control.
Personally, I consider every tie a cyber scourge and every victory of the computer against the human with Odds, for me, is something unimaginable until recently. Now if the ribal is a GM human, the problem is much greater. Congratulations to the Leela team. Congratulations to GM Joel, defeating the machine is another epic feat. Battle between giants. Thank you for teaching us how great human thought is, and the creations of machine art and chess.

Final game was a miracle draw by Leela in a losing endgame, so the score was 2 wins for Joel (the first two games!!), one win for Leela, and five draws. All games can be seen either on Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel or simply by searching for the games of "SuperEasy" vs "LeelaKnightOdds" in the LiChess database (just select "tools" and "advanced search") at Classical time controls. After the first day (3 games), the node limit for Leela was raised from 20000 to 30000 (basically meaning instead of moving in one second it took about 1.5 seconds typically, still in bullet chess range), after which it made a plus score. Could be just a coincidence, hard to say, but since the increase it has played about 500 games without a single loss (excluding a forfeit due to a Windows update causing a reboot), despite playing many games with titled players and other players with ratings in the titled range (186 games vs players over 2600 LiChess plus Joel who doesn't play rated on LiChess plus one unrated who is clearly of IM or GM strength). In general Leela struggled quite a bit at b1 odds but was pretty competitive and made an even score at g1 odds. It seems that 1.e4 works pretty well at g1 odds, not so well at b1 odds. Joel played well and I congratulate him on his victory, but Leela made it close enough to prove that beating GMs in a Classical match at knight odds is a realistic near-term goal.

[Father]

Joel leads 4 to 3, final game about to start on Silicon Road Youtube channel

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. Thank you very much for the information. I wonder if it is possible to watch the games in Lichess? I would like to study them with the computer's analysis control.
Personally, I consider every tie a cyber scourge and every victory of the computer against the human with Odds, for me, is something unimaginable until recently. Now if the ribal is a GM human, the problem is much greater. Congratulations to the Leela team. Congratulations to GM Joel, defeating the machine is another epic feat. Battle between giants. Thank you for teaching us how great human thought is, and the creations of machine art and chess.

Final game was a miracle draw by Leela in a losing endgame, so the score was 2 wins for Joel (the first two games!!), one win for Leela, and five draws. All games can be seen either on Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel or simply by searching for the games of "SuperEasy" vs "LeelaKnightOdds" in the LiChess database (just select "tools" and "advanced search") at Classical time controls. After the first day (3 games), the node limit for Leela was raised from 20000 to 30000 (basically meaning instead of moving in one second it took about 1.5 seconds typically, still in bullet chess range), after which it made a plus score. Could be just a coincidence, hard to say, but since the increase it has played about 500 games without a single loss (excluding a forfeit due to a Windows update causing a reboot), despite playing many games with titled players and other players with ratings in the titled range (186 games vs players over 2600 LiChess plus Joel who doesn't play rated on LiChess plus one unrated who is clearly of IM or GM strength). In general Leela struggled quite a bit at b1 odds but was pretty competitive and made an even score at g1 odds. It seems that 1.e4 works pretty well at g1 odds, not so well at b1 odds. Joel played well and I congratulate him on his victory, but Leela made it close enough to prove that beating GMs in a Classical match at knight odds is a realistic near-term goal.

Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman. I have been able to find on Lichess the games of GM Joel Benjamin against LeelaKnightOdds. This brings me great joy and happiness. I will study them tonight. I have also noticed that SuperEasy is the leader of the current table of the 100 best humans competing against LeelaQueenOdds, which brings me even greater happiness, seeing that there are GMs and titled players and strong players competing against LeelaQueenOdds. The participation of all of them makes the arena and the battlefield bigger. I feel a bit of shame and regret for having fallen from fourth position to thirteenth. I would like to occupy a better position, and this blow has impelled me to fight even more. I have played more than 400 new games with an average of draws on my part of over 50 games out of every 100 games, which raises my previous percentage. By moving from fourth to thirteenth place I lost approximately 140 elo points. I hope to recover a good number of points and be better positioned, but I have not seen any new elo update reports from LeelaQueenOdds and I do not know the reasons and I did not want to be inconvenient by requesting an elo update. For me, being part of an ecosystem between chess professionals and important strong players makes me very happy and results in an opportunity so far unique in my life. Being part of such an ecosystem for me is more than enough, it is a gift of life. I will try to fight and be fierce, and I will try to be humble and grateful above any other interest in the world of my chess that has finally borne fruit. I have seen again the return of some super humans against LeelaQueenOdds, how great is that.

[Father]

Joel leads 4 to 3, final game about to start on Silicon Road Youtube channel

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. Thank you very much for the information. I wonder if it is possible to watch the games in Lichess? I would like to study them with the computer's analysis control.
Personally, I consider every tie a cyber scourge and every victory of the computer against the human with Odds, for me, is something unimaginable until recently. Now if the ribal is a GM human, the problem is much greater. Congratulations to the Leela team. Congratulations to GM Joel, defeating the machine is another epic feat. Battle between giants. Thank you for teaching us how great human thought is, and the creations of machine art and chess.

Final game was a miracle draw by Leela in a losing endgame, so the score was 2 wins for Joel (the first two games!!), one win for Leela, and five draws. All games can be seen either on Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel or simply by searching for the games of "SuperEasy" vs "LeelaKnightOdds" in the LiChess database (just select "tools" and "advanced search") at Classical time controls. After the first day (3 games), the node limit for Leela was raised from 20000 to 30000 (basically meaning instead of moving in one second it took about 1.5 seconds typically, still in bullet chess range), after which it made a plus score. Could be just a coincidence, hard to say, but since the increase it has played about 500 games without a single loss (excluding a forfeit due to a Windows update causing a reboot), despite playing many games with titled players and other players with ratings in the titled range (186 games vs players over 2600 LiChess plus Joel who doesn't play rated on LiChess plus one unrated who is clearly of IM or GM strength). In general Leela struggled quite a bit at b1 odds but was pretty competitive and made an even score at g1 odds. It seems that 1.e4 works pretty well at g1 odds, not so well at b1 odds. Joel played well and I congratulate him on his victory, but Leela made it close enough to prove that beating GMs in a Classical match at knight odds is a realistic near-term goal.

Thank you, Mr. Larry Kaufman. I have observed the games and I have been struck by:
1. GM Joel Benjamin's patience in implementing long-term maneuvers without collapsing.
2. The planning and implementation of plans aimed at winning by the human.
3. The formulation of complex defenses where the human has not shown any palpable traces of fear.
4. The human's capitalization of advantages of a simple pawn in an endgame line after a long triathlon race.
The use of resources for repeating moves seems to me to be quite clever and valid on the part of the GM. As for the machine, my perception of the Odds is that it is through their power that, figuratively speaking, they show the ability to extract juice from a dried fruit. They seem to me like ants or bees with a stinger, that when you take them in your hand, believing them defeated, they sting you even after their life cycle has ended.