KLc wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 3:59 pm
Because the underscore is removed the Elo option is not recognized as such in GUIs like HIARCS Chess Explorer. This is not what I expected.
My guess is that it is because Fritz don't support this. He let you think he support it with starting the engine and even send the UCI_* parameters in rated training games but it will never ask the engine for a move. It don't even use the Frtz 18 engine but rather some internal engine in the GUI. It isn't a bad thing for a normal Fritz user because they have more control of the rating and is probably more accurate than if they let the user use any UCI engine to play rated games.
With not using the standard UCI_* option they fool Fritz to think it is something else and thereby showing this option in the option setting for the user to select rating. This of course ruin the use of Dragon in all GUI that take use of this LimitStrengt setting like Hiarcs, but who cares as long as Fritz users are pleased.
I sometime ago suggested that they use two options in for each choice, e.g. let the UCI_* be as the standard and add a new option for be used in Fritz, but noone was listening. See f.ex. how shashchess are doing it.
Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 4:47 pm
I sometime ago suggested that they use two options in for each choice, e.g. let the UCI_* be as the standard and add a new option for be used in Fritz, but noone was listening. See f.ex. how shashchess are doing it.
Exactly! (I didn't know about the Fritz context that you've mentioned but then why not add both option names?)
lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:49 pm
Elo levels have been much more carefully tuned and tested, especially it has been verified that Elo 2600 is a good match for Grandmaster Alex Lenderman (who had that FIDE rating) in 15' + 10" Rapid games. The play has been made more human-like at these Elo settings; at the higher levels there should now be few really obvious blunders. UCI Elo functioning has been restored to the method used in 2.6 rather than 2.6.1 by removing the underscore from the name, as the underscore caused problems.
I don't understand how the underscore can cause a problem. The correct option names have an underscore, e.g. for Stockfish:
option name UCI_LimitStrength type check default false
option name UCI_Elo type spin default 1350 min 1350 max 2850
Because the underscore is removed the Elo option is not recognized as such in GUIs like HIARCS Chess Explorer. This is not what I expected.
It seems that having the underscore causes problems in more GUIs than removing it does. We got complaints both ways, but more complaints when we put in the underscore. With Fritz GUI it didn't seem to work right even in training mode with the underscore, and wasn't usable at all in the menu.
lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 5:46 pm
It seems that having the underscore causes problems in more GUIs than removing it does. We got complaints both ways, but more complaints when we put in the underscore. With Fritz GUI it didn't seem to work right even in training mode with the underscore, and wasn't usable at all in the menu.
I'm not surprised by Fritz GUI because it's Chessbase and the level of programming there is stuck at where it was in the 1990s. But does Stockfish have the same problem then?? It must!?
Two different binaries (for all the different architectures) seems like an overkill of course. But there must be some solution (a solution other than submitting to Chessbase).
lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 5:46 pm
It seems that having the underscore causes problems in more GUIs than removing it does. We got complaints both ways, but more complaints when we put in the underscore. With Fritz GUI it didn't seem to work right even in training mode with the underscore, and wasn't usable at all in the menu.
I'm not surprised by Fritz GUI because it's Chessbase and the level of programming there is stuck at where it was in the 1990s. But does Stockfish have the same problem then?? It must!?
Two different binaries (for all the different architectures) seems like an overkill of course. But there must be some solution (a solution other than submitting to Chessbase).
ChessBase was not the only GUI with issues when the underscore was added. In theory we could do it both ways, but that would also require doubling up on the LimitStrength option and would be terribly confusing to most users who aren't computer geeks.
KLc wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 7:37 pm
I'm not surprised by Fritz GUI because it's Chessbase and the level of programming there is stuck at where it was in the 1990s. But does Stockfish have the same problem then?? It must!?
I have to disagree, Fritz 18 is the most complete program for a chess player who want to train offline. I think it is only on the concern of getting the rating accurate they have decided to create their own engine where they have full control. The engine isn’t a left-hand work, but well tested to let you find combination etc. adapted to your level. One of the few minuses I think is that it isn’t possible, or at least I haven’t found it, to have several users. E.g., I want to have a blindfold user, and maybe a user for different time control. Now it shows your rating in three categories, blitz, rapid, and slow, with graph to see the development.
In addition to play rated games there are a lot of other features as well for training.
I think the best is to play with Fritz as it is and use other GUI to play other engines. What I use apart from Fritz is Hiarcs, Aquarium, and Shredder, each with different features.
A question for Larry: if I want to play Dragon 3 at 5 minutes + 5 seconds time control and get a 2000 Elo oponent, what Elo should I set? 1800 or maybe 1850?
Fritz 0 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:32 pm
A question for Larry: if I want to play Dragon 3 at 5 minutes + 5 seconds time control and get a 2000 Elo oponent, what Elo should I set? 1800 or maybe 1850?
I have done it this way before, My friend wanted to play versus Komodo Dragon and he is a 2050 FIDEI, so I clicked on Levels and set the Limit playing strength to Elo = 2050 for my friend, in your case set it up to 2000, then you set the time control to play Blitz and set it to 5 Minutes plus 5 seconds Bonus per move, there is no other way around it. You will be playing using the T/C 5/5, but Komodo Dragon will be playing instantly but at the FIDE ELO equivalent to 2000 that you specified.
Fritz 0 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:32 pm
A question for Larry: if I want to play Dragon 3 at 5 minutes + 5 seconds time control and get a 2000 Elo oponent, what Elo should I set? 1800 or maybe 1850?
I have done it this way before, My friend wanted to play versus Komodo Dragon and he is a 2050 FIDEI, so I clicked on Levels and set the Limit playing strength to Elo = 2050 for my friend, in your case set it up to 2000, then you set the time control to play Blitz and set it to 5 Minutes plus 5 seconds Bonus per move, there is no other way around it. You will be playing using the T/C 5/5, but Komodo Dragon will be playing instantly but at the FIDE ELO equivalent to 2000 that you specified.
I guess he referering to what is said earlier that the rating is for 15+10 and you should add 200 for classical and subtract 200 for blitz.
5 +5 (I guess he meant increment and not bonus time) is the slowest where you still can call it blitz (5 min. + 5 sec.*60 = 10 min.). So the question is: the 200 for blitz is it 5+0, 3+2 or something else.
What I do is to just start somewhere and end up where I score about 25%.
Edit: Sometime I should read the readme file, for blitz it is 5+2