Rebel 14

[Jouni]

Don't forget Young's test: "A 24 hours test showed only a +33 Elo gain in self play going from 1 to 16 CPU cores at 1m + 1s time controls."

[Modern Times]

Don't forget Young's test: "A 24 hours test showed only a +33 Elo gain in self play going from 1 to 16 CPU cores at 1m + 1s time controls."

Ah well, one could create a totally artificial environment with very unbalanced openings or the like, and maybe manufacture a different result.

[connor_mcmonigle]

Don't forget Young's test: "A 24 hours test showed only a +33 Elo gain in self play going from 1 to 16 CPU cores at 1m + 1s time controls."

That's irrelevant as that test was done with Stockfish. Stockfish is massively stronger than Rebel 14.1 and consequently experiences extreme Elo compression. Weaker engines in Rebel 14.1's strength range can expect to gain upwards of 100 Elo in self play with 4 threads using vanilla LazySMP.

Rebel 14.1 appears to be similar in strength to Seer 2.1.0 which relies on a pretty vanilla Lazy SMP scheme for parallelism. In CCRL's testing Seer 2.1.0 on 8 threads is >150 Elo stronger than 2.1.0 on 1 thread.

http://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/404/cgi/c ... +opponents

[Vernon Crawford]

About the choice for the name REBEL.
I can understand the criticism. At development time the internal name "Fruity" was used, the compiler still produces "fruitig.exe" (dutch for fruity).

Fruitig? Who cares? What kind of explanation is that?

When I retired in 2002/3 I was using an up to date compiler (Digital Mars, formally Symantec) of that time but with my retirement the compiler guys retired also. No more updates. No 64 bit support, no SSE support, and also Rebel / ProDeo and Benjamin are all 32 bit assembler code. Moving to NNUE requires a modern compiler and C or C++ is a must. And I have one, Gideon 1992/93 is entirely in C and it compiles nicely with VS-2019. But to go back 30 years in time and redo all the changes... I checked --> mission (almost) impossible.

I don't believe that nonsense -> a smokescreen, a technical charade...
You're either unwilling to/ or unable to bring Rebel codebase up to date because your sole experience is with a 30 year old compiler...
most likely because it's too much work, or beyond you.
Therefore it's "mission (almost) impossible" (yes, it's much easier to simply clone Fruit/Toga).
Pretty lazy approach...and appears to be gross misrepresentation.

If I'm wrong, why don't you simply publish old Rebel / ProDeo / Benjamin, etc. etc. 32 bit assembler code as open-source to github?
To prove your point...
I suspect that can't be done, as its all or mostly all already in C.

[dkappe]

About the choice for the name REBEL.
I can understand the criticism. At development time the internal name "Fruity" was used, the compiler still produces "fruitig.exe" (dutch for fruity).

Fruitig? Who cares? What kind of explanation is that?

When I retired in 2002/3 I was using an up to date compiler (Digital Mars, formally Symantec) of that time but with my retirement the compiler guys retired also. No more updates. No 64 bit support, no SSE support, and also Rebel / ProDeo and Benjamin are all 32 bit assembler code. Moving to NNUE requires a modern compiler and C or C++ is a must. And I have one, Gideon 1992/93 is entirely in C and it compiles nicely with VS-2019. But to go back 30 years in time and redo all the changes... I checked --> mission (almost) impossible.

I don't believe that nonsense -> a smokescreen, a technical charade...
You're either unwilling to/ or unable to bring Rebel codebase up to date because your sole experience is with a 30 year old compiler...
most likely because it's too much work, or beyond you.
Therefore it's "mission (almost) impossible" (yes, it's much easier to simply clone Fruit/Toga).
Pretty lazy approach...and appears to be gross misrepresentation.

If I'm wrong, why don't you simply publish old Rebel / ProDeo / Benjamin, etc. etc. 32 bit assembler code as open-source to github?
To prove your point...
I suspect that can't be done, as its all or mostly all already in C.

Hush. Your poisonous posts aren’t welcome.

[Vernon Crawford]

About the choice for the name REBEL.
I can understand the criticism. At development time the internal name "Fruity" was used, the compiler still produces "fruitig.exe" (dutch for fruity).

Fruitig? Who cares? What kind of explanation is that?

When I retired in 2002/3 I was using an up to date compiler (Digital Mars, formally Symantec) of that time but with my retirement the compiler guys retired also. No more updates. No 64 bit support, no SSE support, and also Rebel / ProDeo and Benjamin are all 32 bit assembler code. Moving to NNUE requires a modern compiler and C or C++ is a must. And I have one, Gideon 1992/93 is entirely in C and it compiles nicely with VS-2019. But to go back 30 years in time and redo all the changes... I checked --> mission (almost) impossible.

I don't believe that nonsense -> a smokescreen, a technical charade...
You're either unwilling to/ or unable to bring Rebel codebase up to date because your sole experience is with a 30 year old compiler...
most likely because it's too much work, or beyond you.
Therefore it's "mission (almost) impossible" (yes, it's much easier to simply clone Fruit/Toga).
Pretty lazy approach...and appears to be gross misrepresentation.

If I'm wrong, why don't you simply publish old Rebel / ProDeo / Benjamin, etc. etc. 32 bit assembler code as open-source to github?
To prove your point...
I suspect that can't be done, as its all or mostly all already in C.

Hush. Your poisonous posts aren’t welcome.

Sometimes the truth hurts and upsets the 'status quo'...but perhaps it's prudent to hold one's tongue and let Ed respond (if he so chooses)?
Or are you 'acting' pseudo defender/moderator?

[mclane]

Ed experiments with neural nets.
Why should he publish old rebel sources ?!
He has documented how his old engine works.

You only want to troll vernon.

[AlexChess]

About the choice for the name REBEL.
I can understand the criticism. At development time the internal name "Fruity" was used, the compiler still produces "fruitig.exe" (dutch for fruity).

Fruitig? Who cares? What kind of explanation is that?

When I retired in 2002/3 I was using an up to date compiler (Digital Mars, formally Symantec) of that time but with my retirement the compiler guys retired also. No more updates. No 64 bit support, no SSE support, and also Rebel / ProDeo and Benjamin are all 32 bit assembler code. Moving to NNUE requires a modern compiler and C or C++ is a must. And I have one, Gideon 1992/93 is entirely in C and it compiles nicely with VS-2019. But to go back 30 years in time and redo all the changes... I checked --> mission (almost) impossible.

I don't believe that nonsense -> a smokescreen, a technical charade...
You're either unwilling to/ or unable to bring Rebel codebase up to date because your sole experience is with a 30 year old compiler...
most likely because it's too much work, or beyond you.
Therefore it's "mission (almost) impossible" (yes, it's much easier to simply clone Fruit/Toga).
Pretty lazy approach...and appears to be gross misrepresentation.

If I'm wrong, why don't you simply publish old Rebel / ProDeo / Benjamin, etc. etc. 32 bit assembler code as open-source to github?
To prove your point...
I suspect that can't be done, as its all or mostly all already in C.

Hush. Your poisonous posts aren’t welcome.

Sometimes the truth hurts and upsets the 'status quo'...but perhaps it's prudent to hold one's tongue and let Ed respond (if he so chooses)?
Or are you 'acting' pseudo defender/moderator?

About venoms: Since like Ed says that I've a natural skill to annoy authors (but I still love Rebel, and 35 years ago I have bought dozens of Rebel from him) I've just been permanently banned from Outskirsts after someone kindly posted a link of my SF derivative ProteusChessSF (derivative with released source exactly like Rebel 14) and I have asked to SKYNET and Crapcleaner-Guenter to stop offending me.

PS: Vernon I will soon back to your forum to insert my ProteusChessSF page, since you are one of the few gentlemen here (but there are others and I'm talking with them via PM)

[AlexChess]

Ed experiments with neural nets.
Why should he publish old rebel sources ?!
He has documented how his old engine works.

You only want to troll vernon.

Mclane I think it's a reasonable request instead, since Rebel 14 is an open source project. I'd really like to see the original Rebel XP updated with NNUE running on a TOP PC with 36 cores / threads

Best regards, Alex

[AlexChess]

but I still love Rebel, and 35 years ago I have bought dozens of Rebel from him

25 years ago... was 1997