lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:52 pmI can not wait to see if Komodo Dragon xxx.x will be able to get at least a drawn match with Knight odds in 2 days. I suppose that if a GM like GM Eugene Perelshteyn play 100 games at Knight Odds vs Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 he will benefit more than if Gaviota-win32-0.84 play 1000 games against Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 at Knight Odds which clearly tell me that human GMs benefit or learn more than similar enginesChessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:44 pmWe just gave him Dragon 2.5.1, which he could buy anyway. We do have a better version, but not much better. With normal settings, in standard mode, Dragon won't do any better with big tablebases or more cores or more time. With MCTS mode, it does better with more time or more threads, but I'm not sure whether the time limit we are giving ourselves for this match is long enough for MCTS to do better than standard mode. However, I'm still trying to find ways to utilize the full power of the machine for this match, and I'm reasonably hopeful that I'll find a better solution than just letting it run in normal mode with 16 threads.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:41 pmWhy did you decided to let him use the latest release of Komodo Dragon, unless you have a much better version that plays better against human with Knight Odds ? I still do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon does not play better with more than 16 threads with Knight Odds, Is there also a limit as far as performing better with more than 7 pieces endgame for future Knight Odds matcheslkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 pmYou mean a drawn match, not a draw. Of course I hope to win the match, just as I hoped to win the World Senior Championship in 2008, but didn't expect to win it. But I did win it, and it's possible we might win this match; it just wouldn't be a good bet in my opinion.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:07 pmSo in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:57 pmYes, but if we could update dragon each day based on what we learned dragon would also get better at giving knight odds, so we don’t know which side would do better after 50 games.lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:52 pmI can not wait to see if Komodo Dragon xxx.x will be able to get at least a drawn match with Knight odds in 2 days. I suppose that if a GM like GM Eugene Perelshteyn play 100 games at Knight Odds vs Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 he will benefit more than if Gaviota-win32-0.84 play 1000 games against Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 at Knight Odds which clearly tell me that human GMs benefit or learn more than similar enginesChessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:44 pmWe just gave him Dragon 2.5.1, which he could buy anyway. We do have a better version, but not much better. With normal settings, in standard mode, Dragon won't do any better with big tablebases or more cores or more time. With MCTS mode, it does better with more time or more threads, but I'm not sure whether the time limit we are giving ourselves for this match is long enough for MCTS to do better than standard mode. However, I'm still trying to find ways to utilize the full power of the machine for this match, and I'm reasonably hopeful that I'll find a better solution than just letting it run in normal mode with 16 threads.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:41 pmWhy did you decided to let him use the latest release of Komodo Dragon, unless you have a much better version that plays better against human with Knight Odds ? I still do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon does not play better with more than 16 threads with Knight Odds, Is there also a limit as far as performing better with more than 7 pieces endgame for future Knight Odds matcheslkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 pmYou mean a drawn match, not a draw. Of course I hope to win the match, just as I hoped to win the World Senior Championship in 2008, but didn't expect to win it. But I did win it, and it's possible we might win this match; it just wouldn't be a good bet in my opinion.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:07 pmSo in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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Komodo rules!
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
I just set a reminder for tomorrows game.lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:49 am Our next human opponent for a handicap match with Komodo Dragon will be GM Eugene Perelshteyn, born 1980, current FIDE 2494, peak FIDE 2555 in 2008. He is a chess pro, developing a course for chess.com and coaching. The handicap will be full knight odds (alternating b1/g1), standard scoring. Time control as usual Rapid 15' + 10"; however in a new twist Dragon will be set to play as if it were blitz (3' + 2"), so five to one time odds on top of the knight odds (clocks won't show it, but it will be obvious that Dragon is playing blitz)! Games to be played on chess.com on Nov. 6 starting 11 a.m. Eastern Time. Six game match, total playing time shouldn't exceed 3 hours, total match time probably not more than four hours with time for brief comments after each game. Perelshteyn streaming, but due to the time odds he'll be on move most of the time so may not comment much during actual play.

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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Based on unofficial test games, I believe that the break-even human FIDE rating for knight odds with dragon in somewhere in the 2400s for Rapid and in the 2600s for normal blitz (like 3' + 2" or so). Since Eugene is at the top of that Rapid range, he is the favorite but hopefully it will be competitive.AdminX wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:22 amI just set a reminder for tomorrows game.lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:49 am Our next human opponent for a handicap match with Komodo Dragon will be GM Eugene Perelshteyn, born 1980, current FIDE 2494, peak FIDE 2555 in 2008. He is a chess pro, developing a course for chess.com and coaching. The handicap will be full knight odds (alternating b1/g1), standard scoring. Time control as usual Rapid 15' + 10"; however in a new twist Dragon will be set to play as if it were blitz (3' + 2"), so five to one time odds on top of the knight odds (clocks won't show it, but it will be obvious that Dragon is playing blitz)! Games to be played on chess.com on Nov. 6 starting 11 a.m. Eastern Time. Six game match, total playing time shouldn't exceed 3 hours, total match time probably not more than four hours with time for brief comments after each game. Perelshteyn streaming, but due to the time odds he'll be on move most of the time so may not comment much during actual play.![]()
Komodo rules!
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
This is if the GM has plenty of practice with the Latest Komodo Dragon xxx.x , but what about at 5'+2" you would say around 2550 ? You can ask him to play three extra games at 5'+2 and see if he agrees?lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:24 pmBased on unofficial test games, I believe that the break-even human FIDE rating for knight odds with dragon in somewhere in the 2400s for Rapid and in the 2600s for normal blitz (like 3' + 2" or so). Since Eugene is at the top of that Rapid range, he is the favorite but hopefully it will be competitive.AdminX wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:22 amI just set a reminder for tomorrows game.lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:49 am Our next human opponent for a handicap match with Komodo Dragon will be GM Eugene Perelshteyn, born 1980, current FIDE 2494, peak FIDE 2555 in 2008. He is a chess pro, developing a course for chess.com and coaching. The handicap will be full knight odds (alternating b1/g1), standard scoring. Time control as usual Rapid 15' + 10"; however in a new twist Dragon will be set to play as if it were blitz (3' + 2"), so five to one time odds on top of the knight odds (clocks won't show it, but it will be obvious that Dragon is playing blitz)! Games to be played on chess.com on Nov. 6 starting 11 a.m. Eastern Time. Six game match, total playing time shouldn't exceed 3 hours, total match time probably not more than four hours with time for brief comments after each game. Perelshteyn streaming, but due to the time odds he'll be on move most of the time so may not comment much during actual play.![]()

Note: This are some of his chess games at chess.com https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteyn
Not too convincing against the English opening ==> https://www.chess.com/games/view/14359009
This is an interesting opening if he prepared some other Openings against Komodo Dragon xxx.x ==>
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
At 5' + 2" I would say FIDE blitz 2600 is needed to break even with Dragon at knight odds, assuming some experience with doing this. I have some confidence in this estimate.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:28 pmThis is if the GM has plenty of practice with the Latest Komodo Dragon xxx.x , but what about at 5'+2" you would say around 2550 ? You can ask him to play three extra games at 5'+2 and see if he agrees?lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:24 pmBased on unofficial test games, I believe that the break-even human FIDE rating for knight odds with dragon in somewhere in the 2400s for Rapid and in the 2600s for normal blitz (like 3' + 2" or so). Since Eugene is at the top of that Rapid range, he is the favorite but hopefully it will be competitive.AdminX wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:22 amI just set a reminder for tomorrows game.lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:49 am Our next human opponent for a handicap match with Komodo Dragon will be GM Eugene Perelshteyn, born 1980, current FIDE 2494, peak FIDE 2555 in 2008. He is a chess pro, developing a course for chess.com and coaching. The handicap will be full knight odds (alternating b1/g1), standard scoring. Time control as usual Rapid 15' + 10"; however in a new twist Dragon will be set to play as if it were blitz (3' + 2"), so five to one time odds on top of the knight odds (clocks won't show it, but it will be obvious that Dragon is playing blitz)! Games to be played on chess.com on Nov. 6 starting 11 a.m. Eastern Time. Six game match, total playing time shouldn't exceed 3 hours, total match time probably not more than four hours with time for brief comments after each game. Perelshteyn streaming, but due to the time odds he'll be on move most of the time so may not comment much during actual play.![]()
He is Not rated at Rapid or Blitz only in standard TC https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2012529
Note: This are some of his chess games at chess.com https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteyn
Not too convincing against the English opening ==> https://www.chess.com/games/view/14359009
This is an interesting opening if he prepared some other Openings against Komodo Dragon xxx.x ==>
Komodo rules!
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
This is an interesting opening if he prepared some other Openings against Komodo Dragon xxx.x [TimeControl "180+2"] ==>
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
This is an interesting opening if he prepared some other Openings against Komodo Dragon xxx.x [TimeControl "180+2"] ==>
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Where can I watch the Match ? Direct Link ?
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