Note that a drawn match in this case does not imply six draws. Knight odds is not all that drawish, most typically either White stays a piece down and loses, or else wins it back (or the equivalent) somehow and goes on to win. Of course there will be perpetual checks and drawn endgames too. If the match is indeed drawn, I think the most likely scenario is two wins each plus two draws.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:25 amI was fooling around, but since GM Perelshteyn is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 the best that Komodo Dragon xxx.x can do is to get a Draw. But even if Tinsley was allowed to practice against Chinook, a checkers-playing program programmed by Jonathan Schaeffer, he was NOT going to beat Chinnook, the best that he could have done was draw several gamesChessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:12 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 at 15'+10" , there is a way to get a least a draw, a day before the match offer him to play at 10'+10" insteadlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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Note: I do NOT believe that Chinook won the match since Chinook became the first computer program in history to win a human world championship by drawing 6 games, but only because his stomach hurt. The pain was keeping him up all night. After six games—all draws—he needed to see a doctor But Schaeffer was crushed. He’d devoted years of his life to creating a program that could beat the best checkers player ever, and just as he was about to realize this dream, Tinsley quit. Seven months later, Tinsley died, never having truly lost a match to Chinook.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... rs/534111/
Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Moderator: Ras
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- Posts: 6231
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Komodo rules!
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Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
[fen]bbqrknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQk - 0 1 [/fen]
FEN: bbqrknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQk - 0 1
Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2:
1 00:00 2 2k -0.56 Ng1-f3
2 00:00 34 34k -0.48 Ng1-f3 c7-c5
3 00:00 111 111k -0.80 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 e2-e3
4 00:00 250 250k -0.79 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 c7-c5
5- 00:00 302 302k -0.94 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6
5 00:00 525 525k -1.02 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4
6 00:00 785 785k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 b7-b6
7 00:00 1k 980k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 b7-b6 b2-b3
8 00:00 2k 1,125k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5
9 00:00 3k 1,184k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3
10 00:00 4k 1,273k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3
11 00:00 5k 1,317k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5-c6 O-O
12 00:00 8k 1,341k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 d2-d4 c5xd4
13 00:00 13k 1,260k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 b5-b6 a7xb6 a5xb6 Ba8-c6 Nc3-a4 d5-d4 Na4xc5
14 00:00 18k 1,302k -1.06 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 b5-b6 a7xb6 a5xb6
15- 00:00 38k 1,233k -1.13 Ng1-f3 c7-c5
15 00:00 88k 1,150k -1.09 d2-d4 d7-d5 Bc1-f4 Nf8-g6 Bf4-g3 h7-h5 h2-h3 c7-c5 Bg3xb8 Qc8xb8 e2-e3 c5xd4 Qd1xd4 e7-e5 Qd4-a4+ Ke8-f8 Ng1-f3 Ng8-f6 Qa4-a3+ Kf8-g8
16- 00:00 134k 1,025k -1.16 d2-d4 d7-d5
16 00:00 164k 970k -1.14 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 d2-d3 d5-d4 Nc3-a4 e7-e5 e2-e4 d4xe3/ep Bc1xe3
16 00:00 203k 999k -1.11 b2-b4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 c7-c6 e2-e3 d7-d5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 h2-h4 Nd5xe3 f2xe3 e5-e4 Nb1-c3 e4xf3
17- 00:00 230k 984k -1.18 b2-b4 e7-e5
17 00:00 309k 1,004k -1.14 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Ba8xd5 Bf1-g2 Nf8-g6 O-O h7-h5 h2-h4 O-O d2-d3 Ng6-e5
18- 00:00 468k 961k -1.21 Ng1-f3 c7-c5
18+ 00:00 570k 943k -1.07 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2
18+ 00:00 622k 942k -0.98 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2
18 00:00 717k 937k -0.99 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 e2-e3 e7-e5 d2-d3 O-O Bf1-e2 Rf8-e8 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 O-O
19- 00:00 750k 934k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
19- 00:00 830k 935k -1.15 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
19 00:00 850k 940k -1.14 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Bf1-g2 Nf8-g6 O-O Nd5-b4 d2-d3 O-O a2-a3 Nb4-c6 Bc1-e3 e7-e5 Be3-g5 f7-f6 Bg5-d2
20+ 00:00 904k 942k -1.07 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3
20- 00:00 927k 948k -1.14 c2-c4 Ng8-f6
20+ 00:01 1,047k 950k -1.11 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3
20 00:01 1,057k 955k -1.13 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Ba8xd5 Bf1-g2 h7-h5 b2-b4 c5xb4 Bc1-b2 Nf8-e6 Qd1-a4+ Qc8-d7
21 00:01 1,159k 958k -1.09 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Ba8xd5 Bf1-g2 Nf8-g6 O-O h7-h5 d2-d4 Bd5xf3 e2xf3 Rd8xd4 Qd1-e2 h5-h4 Bc1-e3 h4xg3 h2xg3
21+ 00:01 1,527k 921k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
21+ 00:01 1,629k 925k -0.97 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
21 00:01 1,681k 921k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 e2-e3 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 Nb1-c3 e7-e6 Bf1-e2 f6-f5 Ra1-b1 Kg8-h8 Qd1-c2 Ng6-e5 Nc3-b5 f7-f6 Nf3xe5 f6xe5
22+ 00:04 3,501k 857k -0.93 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
22- 00:04 3,881k 852k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
22+ 00:04 4,144k 848k -0.97 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
22- 00:05 4,330k 849k -1.04 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
22+ 00:05 4,468k 845k -0.99 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
22 00:05 4,600k 844k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c4 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5-b7 g2-g3 Nf8-e6 Bf1-g2 Ne6-d4 O-O h7-h5 e2-e4 Nd4xf3+ Bg2xf3 c7-c5 b4xc5 Qc8xc5 Bc1-b2 Qc5-b4 Qd1-b3 Qb4xb3 a2xb3 Rd8xd2
23+ 00:07 6,028k 830k -0.96 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
23- 00:07 6,404k 829k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
23+ 00:08 6,821k 826k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
23- 00:08 7,070k 827k -1.07 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
23 00:08 7,387k 829k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 e2-e3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Qd1-a4+ c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bd5-e6 Ra1-c1 Qc8-d7 Ng1-f3 O-O d2-d4 Be6-f5 b4-b5 c6-c5 Bf1-e2 c5xd4 Nf3xd4 Rf8-e8
24+ 00:10 8,446k 828k -0.99 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
24 00:10 8,812k 829k -0.98 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 e2-e3 Qc8-c6 Nb1-c3 O-O Qd1-c2 e7-e6 Nf3-g5 d7-d5 Bf1-e2 a7-a6 f2-f4 d5-d4 Be2-f3
25+ 00:13 11,124k 827k -0.91 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
25- 00:14 11,765k 825k -0.98 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
25+ 00:14 12,369k 825k -0.95 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
25- 00:15 12,731k 824k -1.02 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
25+ 00:17 14,491k 818k -0.97 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
25- 00:18 15,135k 818k -1.10 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
25+ 00:20 16,705k 817k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
25 00:20 17,026k 820k -0.96 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 g2-g3 Bb8-e5 Ra1-c1 Be5xc3 Rc1xc3 Ba8xf3 e2xf3 d7-d5 Bf1-e2 d5xc4 O-O Rd8-d4 f3-f4 Rf8-d8 Be2xc4 Rd4xd2
26- 00:24 19,926k 817k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
26+ 00:28 23,263k 814k -1.01 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
26- 00:29 23,747k 816k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
26+ 00:29 24,343k 817k -1.02 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
26 00:29 24,464k 817k -1.05 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 e7xf6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 c7-c5 O-O d7-d5 c2-c3 h7-h5 d2-d4 h5-h4 Nb1-d2 h4-h3 Bg2-h1 Bb8-d6 a2-a3 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 c5-c4 a3-a4
27- 00:35 28,754k 816k -1.12 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
27+ 00:46 37,513k 811k -1.10 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
27 00:46 37,612k 811k -1.10 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 e7xf6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 O-O d7-d5 d2-d4 h7-h5 h2-h4 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 Ng6-e7 d4xc5 Bb8xg3 f2xg3 Ne7-f5 Nf3-d4 Nf5xe3 Qd1-d2 Ne3xf1
28+ 00:49 39,937k 810k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
28 00:50 40,724k 810k -1.05 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 e7xf6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 O-O d7-d5 d2-d4 h7-h5 h2-h4 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 Ng6-e7 d4xc5 Bb8xg3 f2xg3 Ne7-f5 Nf3-d4 Nf5xe3 Qd1-d2 Ne3xf1 Kg1xf1 Qc8xc5 Nb1-c3 g7-g6 Ra1-b1
Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2:
NNUE evaluation using nn-3475407dc199.nnue enabled
1/1 00:00 20 20k -0.77 d2-d4
2/2 00:00 45 45k -0.99 d2-d4 c7-c6
3/3 00:00 95 95k -0.72 d2-d4 c7-c6 e2-e3
4/4 00:00 647 324k -1.45 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 c7-c6
5/5 00:00 1k 500k -1.43 b2-b3 e7-e5 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
6/6 00:00 1k 528k -1.27 b2-b3 e7-e5 Bc1-b2 c7-c5 e2-e3
7/7 00:00 2k 790k -1.25 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 d7-d6 Bb2xf6 g7xf6 e2-e3
8/10 00:00 6k 921k -1.35 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 e2-e3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 Ng1-f3
9/13 00:00 10k 1,002k -1.27 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 Bf1-d3 c5xd4
10/12 00:00 30k 1,058k -1.37 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2 c7-c6 d2-d4 e5-e4 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4
11/15 00:00 59k 1,075k -1.42 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 e2-e3 c5xb4 a2-a3 b4xa3 Bb2xf6 g7xf6
12/16 00:00 86k 1,077k -1.43 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 e2-e3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 c5xb4 Bb2xf6 e7xf6 d2-d4 O-O
13/19 00:00 142k 959k -1.50 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 e2-e3 e7-e5 a2-a3 Nf8-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5
14/18 00:00 174k 971k -1.31 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 c2-c4 e7-e5 Nb1-c3 O-O
15/20 00:00 282k 1,006k -1.37 b2-b4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 Nf8-g6 b4xc5 b6xc5 h2-h4 h7-h5 c2-c4 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 Nb1-c3 Kg8-g7
16/22 00:00 333k 1,029k -1.29 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Nf8-g6 e2-e3 O-O h2-h4 h7-h5 c2-c4 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3
17/22 00:00 475k 1,014k -1.33 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 e2-e3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 c2-c4 e7-e6 Nf3-g5 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 Qd1xh5 f6xg5 h4xg5
18/22 00:00 729k 1,036k -1.36 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 e2-e3 d7-d5 g2-g3 Qc8-e6 Bf1-h3 Qe6-e7 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 d4xe5 Ng6xe5 Nb1-d2
19/25 00:01 1,786k 1,041k -0.94 d2-d4 d7-d5 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 O-O Bc1-b2 Nf6-e4 e2-e3 e7-e5 Nf3xe5 Ng6xe5 d4xe5 c7-c5
20/26 00:02 2,545k 1,034k -1.02 d2-d4 d7-d5 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 O-O e2-e3 Rf8-e8 Nb1-d2 b7-b6 b4-b5 c7-c5 b5xc6/ep Ba8xc6 Bc1-b2 e7-e5 d4xe5
21/26+ 00:03 3,567k 1,034k -0.94 d2-d4
21/26 00:04 4,161k 1,031k -0.99 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b5 c4xb5 c7-c5 d4xc5 Qc8xc5 e2-e3 Nf8-g6 Nb1-d2 O-O a2-a4 d7-d5 b2-b4 Qc5xb4 Bc1-a3 Qb4-a5 Ra1-c1
22/25- 00:04 4,353k 1,032k -1.07 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
22/25- 00:04 4,730k 1,028k -1.15 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
22/31+ 00:05 5,409k 1,021k -1.07 d2-d4
22/31- 00:05 5,644k 1,023k -1.27 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
22/31+ 00:05 5,772k 1,023k -1.08 d2-d4
22/31 00:06 6,168k 1,023k -1.01 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 d4-d5 b7-b5 Nb1-c3 b5-b4 Nc3-a4 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 O-O a2-a3 Rf8-e8 Bc1-g5 Nf6-e4 a3xb4 c5xb4 Ra1-c1 Kg8-h8 Bg5-e3 e7-e6 g2-g3
23/32+ 00:07 7,463k 1,014k -0.93 d2-d4
23/32- 00:07 8,012k 1,015k -1.09 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
23/32+ 00:08 8,175k 1,013k -0.97 d2-d4
23/32 00:08 8,468k 1,013k -1.06 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5-b7 Bc1-g5 c7-c5 Bg5xf6 g7xf6 d4-d5 Nf8-g6 Qd1-c2 Ke8-f8 e2-e3 Bb7xd5 Nc3xd5 Rd8xd5 Qc2-e4 Rd5-d8 Bf1-c4
24/35- 00:10 10,182k 1,014k -1.14 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
24/35+ 00:11 11,241k 1,010k -1.06 d2-d4
24/35+ 00:11 11,717k 1,012k -0.94 d2-d4
24/35 00:11 11,814k 1,012k -0.96 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5xf3 e2xf3 Nf8-e6 Bc1-e3 c7-c6 Bf1-c4 O-O Bc4xe6 Qc8xe6 Qd1-a4 Nf6-d5 Nc3xd5 Rd8xd5 Ra1-c1 Rd5-a5 Qa4xc6 Qe6xc6 Rc1xc6
25/31- 00:14 15,001k 1,007k -1.04 d2-d4 c7-c5
25/31+ 00:15 15,923k 1,002k -0.96 d2-d4
25/31 00:16 16,952k 1,002k -0.94 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5xf3 e2xf3 Nf8-e6 Bc1-e3 O-O Qd1-a4 c7-c5 d4xc5 Ne6xc5 Qa4-c2 Bb8-e5 Bf1-c4 Be5xc3+ Qc2xc3 Nc5-d3+ Bc4xd3 Qc8xc3+ b2xc3 Rd8xd3 Be3-d4
26/33- 00:19 19,726k 995k -1.02 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/33- 00:21 21,099k 995k -1.11 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/37- 00:33 33,029k 991k -1.23 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/42+ 00:35 35,608k 991k -1.12 d2-d4
26/42+ 00:38 37,838k 991k -0.88 d2-d4
26/42 00:38 38,515k 991k -1.04 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 d4-d5 b7-b5 c2-c4 e7-e6 Bc1-g5 b5xc4 Bg5xf6 g7xf6 Nb1-c3 Qc8-b7 e2-e4
FEN: bbqrknnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQk - 0 1
Dragon-2.5-64bit-avx2:
1 00:00 2 2k -0.56 Ng1-f3
2 00:00 34 34k -0.48 Ng1-f3 c7-c5
3 00:00 111 111k -0.80 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 e2-e3
4 00:00 250 250k -0.79 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 c7-c5
5- 00:00 302 302k -0.94 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6
5 00:00 525 525k -1.02 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4
6 00:00 785 785k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 b7-b6
7 00:00 1k 980k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 b7-b6 b2-b3
8 00:00 2k 1,125k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5
9 00:00 3k 1,184k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3
10 00:00 4k 1,273k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3
11 00:00 5k 1,317k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5-c6 O-O
12 00:00 8k 1,341k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 d2-d4 c5xd4
13 00:00 13k 1,260k -1.05 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 b5-b6 a7xb6 a5xb6 Ba8-c6 Nc3-a4 d5-d4 Na4xc5
14 00:00 18k 1,302k -1.06 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 b5-b6 a7xb6 a5xb6
15- 00:00 38k 1,233k -1.13 Ng1-f3 c7-c5
15 00:00 88k 1,150k -1.09 d2-d4 d7-d5 Bc1-f4 Nf8-g6 Bf4-g3 h7-h5 h2-h3 c7-c5 Bg3xb8 Qc8xb8 e2-e3 c5xd4 Qd1xd4 e7-e5 Qd4-a4+ Ke8-f8 Ng1-f3 Ng8-f6 Qa4-a3+ Kf8-g8
16- 00:00 134k 1,025k -1.16 d2-d4 d7-d5
16 00:00 164k 970k -1.14 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 a4-a5 b6-b5 c4xb5 d7-d5 d2-d3 d5-d4 Nc3-a4 e7-e5 e2-e4 d4xe3/ep Bc1xe3
16 00:00 203k 999k -1.11 b2-b4 e7-e5 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 c7-c6 e2-e3 d7-d5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 h2-h4 Nd5xe3 f2xe3 e5-e4 Nb1-c3 e4xf3
17- 00:00 230k 984k -1.18 b2-b4 e7-e5
17 00:00 309k 1,004k -1.14 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Ba8xd5 Bf1-g2 Nf8-g6 O-O h7-h5 h2-h4 O-O d2-d3 Ng6-e5
18- 00:00 468k 961k -1.21 Ng1-f3 c7-c5
18+ 00:00 570k 943k -1.07 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2
18+ 00:00 622k 942k -0.98 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2
18 00:00 717k 937k -0.99 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 e2-e3 e7-e5 d2-d3 O-O Bf1-e2 Rf8-e8 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 O-O
19- 00:00 750k 934k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
19- 00:00 830k 935k -1.15 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
19 00:00 850k 940k -1.14 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Bf1-g2 Nf8-g6 O-O Nd5-b4 d2-d3 O-O a2-a3 Nb4-c6 Bc1-e3 e7-e5 Be3-g5 f7-f6 Bg5-d2
20+ 00:00 904k 942k -1.07 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3
20- 00:00 927k 948k -1.14 c2-c4 Ng8-f6
20+ 00:01 1,047k 950k -1.11 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3
20 00:01 1,057k 955k -1.13 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Ba8xd5 Bf1-g2 h7-h5 b2-b4 c5xb4 Bc1-b2 Nf8-e6 Qd1-a4+ Qc8-d7
21 00:01 1,159k 958k -1.09 c2-c4 Ng8-f6 Nb1-c3 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 g2-g3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nc3xd5 Ba8xd5 Bf1-g2 Nf8-g6 O-O h7-h5 d2-d4 Bd5xf3 e2xf3 Rd8xd4 Qd1-e2 h5-h4 Bc1-e3 h4xg3 h2xg3
21+ 00:01 1,527k 921k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
21+ 00:01 1,629k 925k -0.97 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
21 00:01 1,681k 921k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 e2-e3 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 Nb1-c3 e7-e6 Bf1-e2 f6-f5 Ra1-b1 Kg8-h8 Qd1-c2 Ng6-e5 Nc3-b5 f7-f6 Nf3xe5 f6xe5
22+ 00:04 3,501k 857k -0.93 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
22- 00:04 3,881k 852k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
22+ 00:04 4,144k 848k -0.97 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
22- 00:05 4,330k 849k -1.04 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
22+ 00:05 4,468k 845k -0.99 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
22 00:05 4,600k 844k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 c2-c4 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5-b7 g2-g3 Nf8-e6 Bf1-g2 Ne6-d4 O-O h7-h5 e2-e4 Nd4xf3+ Bg2xf3 c7-c5 b4xc5 Qc8xc5 Bc1-b2 Qc5-b4 Qd1-b3 Qb4xb3 a2xb3 Rd8xd2
23+ 00:07 6,028k 830k -0.96 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
23- 00:07 6,404k 829k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
23+ 00:08 6,821k 826k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
23- 00:08 7,070k 827k -1.07 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
23 00:08 7,387k 829k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 e2-e3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Qd1-a4+ c7-c6 Nb1-c3 Bd5-e6 Ra1-c1 Qc8-d7 Ng1-f3 O-O d2-d4 Be6-f5 b4-b5 c6-c5 Bf1-e2 c5xd4 Nf3xd4 Rf8-e8
24+ 00:10 8,446k 828k -0.99 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
24 00:10 8,812k 829k -0.98 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 c2-c4 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 e2-e3 Qc8-c6 Nb1-c3 O-O Qd1-c2 e7-e6 Nf3-g5 d7-d5 Bf1-e2 a7-a6 f2-f4 d5-d4 Be2-f3
25+ 00:13 11,124k 827k -0.91 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
25- 00:14 11,765k 825k -0.98 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
25+ 00:14 12,369k 825k -0.95 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2
25- 00:15 12,731k 824k -1.02 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
25+ 00:17 14,491k 818k -0.97 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
25- 00:18 15,135k 818k -1.10 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
25+ 00:20 16,705k 817k -1.00 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
25 00:20 17,026k 820k -0.96 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Nb1-c3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 g2-g3 Bb8-e5 Ra1-c1 Be5xc3 Rc1xc3 Ba8xf3 e2xf3 d7-d5 Bf1-e2 d5xc4 O-O Rd8-d4 f3-f4 Rf8-d8 Be2xc4 Rd4xd2
26- 00:24 19,926k 817k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
26+ 00:28 23,263k 814k -1.01 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
26- 00:29 23,747k 816k -1.06 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
26+ 00:29 24,343k 817k -1.02 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
26 00:29 24,464k 817k -1.05 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 e7xf6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 c7-c5 O-O d7-d5 c2-c3 h7-h5 d2-d4 h5-h4 Nb1-d2 h4-h3 Bg2-h1 Bb8-d6 a2-a3 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 c5-c4 a3-a4
27- 00:35 28,754k 816k -1.12 b2-b4 Ng8-f6
27+ 00:46 37,513k 811k -1.10 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
27 00:46 37,612k 811k -1.10 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 e7xf6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 O-O d7-d5 d2-d4 h7-h5 h2-h4 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 Ng6-e7 d4xc5 Bb8xg3 f2xg3 Ne7-f5 Nf3-d4 Nf5xe3 Qd1-d2 Ne3xf1
28+ 00:49 39,937k 810k -1.03 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
28 00:50 40,724k 810k -1.05 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 e7xf6 g2-g3 b7-b6 Bf1-g2 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 O-O d7-d5 d2-d4 h7-h5 h2-h4 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 Ng6-e7 d4xc5 Bb8xg3 f2xg3 Ne7-f5 Nf3-d4 Nf5xe3 Qd1-d2 Ne3xf1 Kg1xf1 Qc8xc5 Nb1-c3 g7-g6 Ra1-b1
Stockfish_14_x64_bmi2:
NNUE evaluation using nn-3475407dc199.nnue enabled
1/1 00:00 20 20k -0.77 d2-d4
2/2 00:00 45 45k -0.99 d2-d4 c7-c6
3/3 00:00 95 95k -0.72 d2-d4 c7-c6 e2-e3
4/4 00:00 647 324k -1.45 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 c7-c6
5/5 00:00 1k 500k -1.43 b2-b3 e7-e5 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3
6/6 00:00 1k 528k -1.27 b2-b3 e7-e5 Bc1-b2 c7-c5 e2-e3
7/7 00:00 2k 790k -1.25 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 d7-d6 Bb2xf6 g7xf6 e2-e3
8/10 00:00 6k 921k -1.35 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 e2-e3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 Ng1-f3
9/13 00:00 10k 1,002k -1.27 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 Bf1-d3 c5xd4
10/12 00:00 30k 1,058k -1.37 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2 c7-c6 d2-d4 e5-e4 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 c2-c4
11/15 00:00 59k 1,075k -1.42 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 e2-e3 c5xb4 a2-a3 b4xa3 Bb2xf6 g7xf6
12/16 00:00 86k 1,077k -1.43 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 e2-e3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 c5xb4 Bb2xf6 e7xf6 d2-d4 O-O
13/19 00:00 142k 959k -1.50 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 e2-e3 e7-e5 a2-a3 Nf8-e6 d2-d3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Nf6xd5
14/18 00:00 174k 971k -1.31 b2-b4 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Ng8-f6 e2-e3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 c2-c4 e7-e5 Nb1-c3 O-O
15/20 00:00 282k 1,006k -1.37 b2-b4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 e2-e3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 Nf8-g6 b4xc5 b6xc5 h2-h4 h7-h5 c2-c4 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 Nb1-c3 Kg8-g7
16/22 00:00 333k 1,029k -1.29 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 b7-b6 Bc1-b2 Nf8-g6 e2-e3 O-O h2-h4 h7-h5 c2-c4 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3
17/22 00:00 475k 1,014k -1.33 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 e2-e3 c7-c5 b4xc5 b6xc5 c2-c4 e7-e6 Nf3-g5 O-O Bb2xf6 g7xf6 Qd1xh5 f6xg5 h4xg5
18/22 00:00 729k 1,036k -1.36 b2-b4 e7-e5 Bc1-b2 Nf8-g6 h2-h4 h7-h5 e2-e3 d7-d5 g2-g3 Qc8-e6 Bf1-h3 Qe6-e7 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 d4xe5 Ng6xe5 Nb1-d2
19/25 00:01 1,786k 1,041k -0.94 d2-d4 d7-d5 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 O-O Bc1-b2 Nf6-e4 e2-e3 e7-e5 Nf3xe5 Ng6xe5 d4xe5 c7-c5
20/26 00:02 2,545k 1,034k -1.02 d2-d4 d7-d5 b2-b4 Ng8-f6 a2-a4 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 O-O e2-e3 Rf8-e8 Nb1-d2 b7-b6 b4-b5 c7-c5 b5xc6/ep Ba8xc6 Bc1-b2 e7-e5 d4xe5
21/26+ 00:03 3,567k 1,034k -0.94 d2-d4
21/26 00:04 4,161k 1,031k -0.99 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b5 c4xb5 c7-c5 d4xc5 Qc8xc5 e2-e3 Nf8-g6 Nb1-d2 O-O a2-a4 d7-d5 b2-b4 Qc5xb4 Bc1-a3 Qb4-a5 Ra1-c1
22/25- 00:04 4,353k 1,032k -1.07 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
22/25- 00:04 4,730k 1,028k -1.15 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
22/31+ 00:05 5,409k 1,021k -1.07 d2-d4
22/31- 00:05 5,644k 1,023k -1.27 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
22/31+ 00:05 5,772k 1,023k -1.08 d2-d4
22/31 00:06 6,168k 1,023k -1.01 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 c7-c5 d4-d5 b7-b5 Nb1-c3 b5-b4 Nc3-a4 Nf8-g6 Ng1-f3 O-O a2-a3 Rf8-e8 Bc1-g5 Nf6-e4 a3xb4 c5xb4 Ra1-c1 Kg8-h8 Bg5-e3 e7-e6 g2-g3
23/32+ 00:07 7,463k 1,014k -0.93 d2-d4
23/32- 00:07 8,012k 1,015k -1.09 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
23/32+ 00:08 8,175k 1,013k -0.97 d2-d4
23/32 00:08 8,468k 1,013k -1.06 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5-b7 Bc1-g5 c7-c5 Bg5xf6 g7xf6 d4-d5 Nf8-g6 Qd1-c2 Ke8-f8 e2-e3 Bb7xd5 Nc3xd5 Rd8xd5 Qc2-e4 Rd5-d8 Bf1-c4
24/35- 00:10 10,182k 1,014k -1.14 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
24/35+ 00:11 11,241k 1,010k -1.06 d2-d4
24/35+ 00:11 11,717k 1,012k -0.94 d2-d4
24/35 00:11 11,814k 1,012k -0.96 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5xf3 e2xf3 Nf8-e6 Bc1-e3 c7-c6 Bf1-c4 O-O Bc4xe6 Qc8xe6 Qd1-a4 Nf6-d5 Nc3xd5 Rd8xd5 Ra1-c1 Rd5-a5 Qa4xc6 Qe6xc6 Rc1xc6
25/31- 00:14 15,001k 1,007k -1.04 d2-d4 c7-c5
25/31+ 00:15 15,923k 1,002k -0.96 d2-d4
25/31 00:16 16,952k 1,002k -0.94 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 c2-c4 b7-b6 Ng1-f3 d7-d5 c4xd5 Ba8xd5 Nb1-c3 Bd5xf3 e2xf3 Nf8-e6 Bc1-e3 O-O Qd1-a4 c7-c5 d4xc5 Ne6xc5 Qa4-c2 Bb8-e5 Bf1-c4 Be5xc3+ Qc2xc3 Nc5-d3+ Bc4xd3 Qc8xc3+ b2xc3 Rd8xd3 Be3-d4
26/33- 00:19 19,726k 995k -1.02 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/33- 00:21 21,099k 995k -1.11 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/37- 00:33 33,029k 991k -1.23 d2-d4 Ng8-f6
26/42+ 00:35 35,608k 991k -1.12 d2-d4
26/42+ 00:38 37,838k 991k -0.88 d2-d4
26/42 00:38 38,515k 991k -1.04 d2-d4 Ng8-f6 Ng1-f3 c7-c5 d4-d5 b7-b5 c2-c4 e7-e6 Bc1-g5 b5xc4 Bg5xf6 g7xf6 Nb1-c3 Qc8-b7 e2-e4
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- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Here on the previous position I selected a Position for Black Pieces that give Dragon a Chcess960 position with over 1.04 advantage but it does not beat Stockfish 14 using the standard chess position, but when you give the same position to Stockfish 14 with Black Pieces after I tested 10 times Stockfish always beat Dragon 2.5.1. Remember the Black position is selected from Chess960 which give Black pieces an advantage of over 1.04
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- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
After the 11 game or game number #11 Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 got an even position after reaching this position, it is almost unbelievable to human Eyes that White can draw this position

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- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Komodo Dragon had a bad start, but now after 36 games playing with standard position as White and Stockfish with the Black position that you see here now the score is 19 to to 17 in favor of Stockfish 14, now I am starting to see the reason why 1000 games are neededChessqueen wrote: ↑Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:50 pm After the 11 game or game number #11 Komodo Dragon 2.5.1 got an even position after reaching this position, it is almost unbelievable to human Eyes that White can draw this position![]()

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- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
So in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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- Posts: 6231
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
You mean a drawn match, not a draw. Of course I hope to win the match, just as I hoped to win the World Senior Championship in 2008, but didn't expect to win it. But I did win it, and it's possible we might win this match; it just wouldn't be a good bet in my opinion.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:07 pmSo in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
Komodo rules!
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- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Why did you decided to let him use the latest release of Komodo Dragon, unless you have a much better version that plays better against human with Knight Odds ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 pmYou mean a drawn match, not a draw. Of course I hope to win the match, just as I hoped to win the World Senior Championship in 2008, but didn't expect to win it. But I did win it, and it's possible we might win this match; it just wouldn't be a good bet in my opinion.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:07 pmSo in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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- Posts: 5685
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
- Location: Moving
- Full name: Jorge Picado
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:41 pmWhy did you decided to let him use the latest release of Komodo Dragon, unless you have a much better version that plays better against human with Knight Odds ? I still do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon does not play better with more than 16 threads with Knight Odds, Is there also a limit as far as performing better with more than 7 pieces endgame for future Knight Odds matcheslkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 pmYou mean a drawn match, not a draw. Of course I hope to win the match, just as I hoped to win the World Senior Championship in 2008, but didn't expect to win it. But I did win it, and it's possible we might win this match; it just wouldn't be a good bet in my opinion.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:07 pmSo in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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- Posts: 6231
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Komodo Dragon vs. GM Perelshteyn, knight odds match.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:44 pmWe just gave him Dragon 2.5.1, which he could buy anyway. We do have a better version, but not much better. With normal settings, in standard mode, Dragon won't do any better with big tablebases or more cores or more time. With MCTS mode, it does better with more time or more threads, but I'm not sure whether the time limit we are giving ourselves for this match is long enough for MCTS to do better than standard mode. However, I'm still trying to find ways to utilize the full power of the machine for this match, and I'm reasonably hopeful that I'll find a better solution than just letting it run in normal mode with 16 threads.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:41 pmWhy did you decided to let him use the latest release of Komodo Dragon, unless you have a much better version that plays better against human with Knight Odds ? I still do NOT understand why Komodo Dragon does not play better with more than 16 threads with Knight Odds, Is there also a limit as far as performing better with more than 7 pieces endgame for future Knight Odds matcheslkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:00 pmYou mean a drawn match, not a draw. Of course I hope to win the match, just as I hoped to win the World Senior Championship in 2008, but didn't expect to win it. But I did win it, and it's possible we might win this match; it just wouldn't be a good bet in my opinion.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:07 pmSo in the best case scenario all that you are hoping for is to get a draw with Knight Odds against a 2500+ rated player https://www.chess.com/players/eugene-perelshteynlkaufman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:56 pmSo far it seems 16 threads is best for this, but there are many ways to limit the search, by time, by depth, by Skill level, or by threads. So it's not a simple question, I'm trying to find the best combination. I'm hoping that we can draw the match, but I'm not predicting that.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:41 pmBy now you probably have done several testing with 16 threads and with 24 threads; which seems to be more effective at Knight Odds against an engine of similar strength Gaviota-win32-0.84 = GM Perelshteyn ?lkaufman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:42 pmIf we go with 16 threads then indeed I could use my fast 16 core machine instead. But everything is set up on my threadripper now, so there is no advantage to switching, and I might decide to use maybe 24 threads, depending on testing.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:38 amIf that is the case how come you will use a 32 core Threadripper instead of a 16 threads >lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:45 pmI've run enough simulations to say that using more than 16 threads or more than 3' +2" (with 16 threads) is totally useless for knight odds. Imagine if we had a 32 man tablebase (from a million years in the future!). How would that help us in a knight odds match? Sure, if we got down to less than a pawn deficit in a game it might see a weird draw that normal search can't find, but against a knight-odds human opponent there is no point in assuming that he will play perfectly, it's better not to see every little detail in the far future that he will never even think of. If we get within drawing range we will surely not lose even if we play imperfectly, and if we reach a position where a win is possible we will probably win even if we miss the first win. Knight odds chess requires a different mental model than normal chess. Also, the ChrisW opening book is of no use for a human preparing, it is only for getting variety for computer vs computer matches. The positions (mostly) won't actually occur in real knight odds games.Chessqueen wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:15 pmSince he is practicing with Komodo Dragon 2.5.1, he only need ChrisW opening book and Mr. Kaufman 32 core Threadripper, but I strongly recommend Mr. Kaufman to set his Komodo Dragon xxx.x to play at (5'+2") instead of (3' + 2")AdminX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:59 am Revisiting my thoughts on this match, my opinion has now changed given that the match does not start until Nov 6th and that the GM does have a version of Komodo to practice with, I now think he should have good chances to win the match. I don't believe I gave enough thought to this little detail.![]()
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Komodo rules!