Re: On-line engine blitz tournament September

Modern Times · Post by **Modern Times** » Wed Oct 14, 2026 9:42 am

I just struck a problem, using Winboard as usual which is reliable. I was playing vs atom goldbar, and it was goldbar's turn to move. It never moved and its clock went negative by over 30 seconds. I continued to ponder, but then the game was terminated saying that I had forfeited on time. (PlentyChess).

White to move, but black lost on time

[Event "ICS rated blitz match"]
[Site "nightmare-chess.nl"]
[Date "2026.10.14"]
[Round "-"]
[White "atomGoldbar"]
[Black "PlentyChessRB"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2593"]
[BlackElo "2886"]
[TimeControl "180+1"]
[Annotator "13... +0.00"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8.
f3 h5 9. Nd5 Bxd5 10. exd5 g6 11. Qd2 Nbd7 12. Na5 Qc7 13. Be2 e4
{+0.00/39 24} 14. f4 Bg7 {+0.16/32 5} 15. O-O Ng4 {+0.16/36} 16. Bxg4 hxg4
{+0.08/33} 17. Qb4 f5 {+0.25/32} 18. Qxb7 Qxb7 {+0.12/33} 19. Nxb7 Rb8
{+0.20/35} 20. Nxd6+ Ke7 {+0.18/34} 21. Nc4 Rhc8 {+0.16/37} 22. Na5 Rxb2
{+0.08/31} 23. c4 Re2 {+0.01/35 6} 24. Nc6+ Kd6 {+0.01/34} 25. Rae1 Rxa2
{+0.01/37} 26. Rb1 Ra3 {+0.12/29 7} 27. Rfe1 Rxc6 {+0.01/38 15} 28. dxc6
Kxc6 {+0.01/38} 29. Kf2 Bc3 {+0.01/45 28} 30. Red1 a5 {+0.01/41} 31. h3 Bb4
{+0.01/43} 32. hxg4 Nf6 {+0.01/50} 33. Bd4 Nxg4+ {+0.01/50} 34. Ke2 Ra2+
{+0.00/48} 35. Rb2 Ra3 {+0.01/52} 36. Rc1 Rg3 {+0.01/43 19} 37. Rg1 Bc3
{+0.01/42} 38. Bxc3 Rxc3 {+0.01/42} 39. Ra2 a4 {+0.01/34 5} 40. Rga1 Kc5
{+0.01/38 4} 41. Rxa4 Rc2+ {+0.01/41} 42. Ke1 Rxg2 {+0.00/41} 43. Ra8 Nf6
{+0.01/43 13} 44. Rd1 Nh5 {+0.01/37 6} 45. Rc8+ Kb4 {+0.01/43 3} 46. Kf1
Rc2 {+0.01/40} 47. c5 Ng3+ {+0.01/43} 48. Kg1 Ne2+ {+0.01/43} 49. Kf1 Nxf4
{+0.01/44} 50. Rb8+ Kc3 {+0.00/47 4} 51. c6 e3 {+0.00/47} 52. Re1 e2+
{+0.00/53} 53. Rxe2 Nxe2 {+0.00/61} 54. c7 Kd3 {+0.00/65} 55. c8=Q Ng3+
{+0.00/67} 56. Kg1 Ne2+ {+0.00/74} 57. Kg2 Rxc8 {+0.00/79} 58. Rxc8 Nf4+
{+0.00/84} 59. Kf3 Ne2 {+0.00/87} 60. Kf2 Nf4 {+0.00/92 4} 61. Re8 Nh5
{+0.00/71 3} 62. Kf3 g5 {+0.00/74 3} 63. Rd8+ Kc4 {+0.00/74} 64. Rf8 g4+
{+0.00/89 5} 65. Kg2 f4 {+0.00/75 5} 66. Rf5 Ng7 {+0.00/107 3} 67. Rxf4+
Kb5 {+0.00/115} 68. Rxg4 Ne6 {+0.00/59} 69. Rg8 Kc4 {+0.00/79 3} 70. Kf2
Kd5 {+0.00/95 3}
{PlentyChessRB forfeits on time} 1-0

Joost Buijs · Post by **Joost Buijs** » Wed Oct 14, 2026 1:58 pm

I've been playing many games on the new server with Winboard, and saw no such problems yet.
It looks as if you didn't get a move from goldbar while the server thinks it has sent the move.
I will take a look at this game, maybe Winboard didn't recognize the move because it's not encoded properly.

Joost Buijs · Post by **Joost Buijs** » Wed Oct 14, 2026 2:41 pm

The only thing I see is that there was a Windows update around that time which restarted the server, maybe this caused the problem.
Windows is so stupid that it restarts a computer for an update, even when there are jobs running. Microsoft totally lost it's way.
Can you mail me the winboard.debug file, or at least the last part of it in the region where the error occurred?

Modern Times · Post by **Modern Times** » Wed Oct 14, 2026 5:02 pm

I think The Windows update will have been before that. I got disconnected when it was sitting idle, and I reconnected and started a new game.

I've never had issues playing goldbar before, it is 100% reliable, and so is Winboard. I'll look for a debug file.

Modern Times · Post by **Modern Times** » Thu Oct 15, 2026 10:25 am

I just emailed you. It has just happened again - this time vs Selate. I fear there is a problem somewhere with the new software.

White to move, and black is forfeited on time.

[Event "ICS rated blitz match"]
[Site "nightmare-chess.nl"]
[Date "2026.10.15"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Selate"]
[Black "PlentyChessRB"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2817"]
[BlackElo "2877"]
[TimeControl "240+1"]
[Annotator "5... -0.29"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. Nf3 cxd4 5. Qxd4 Nc6 {-0.29/30 9} 6. Qf4 f6
{-0.43/22} 7. Nc3 a6 {-0.50/29 10} 8. Qg3 fxe5 {-0.42/23} 9. Nxe5 Nf6
{-0.41/30} 10. Be2 Bf5 {-0.43/30 8} 11. O-O Nxe5 {-0.21/32 7} 12. Qxe5 e6
{-0.32/31} 13. Bf4 Qd7 {-0.37/35} 14. Bd3 Bxd3 {-0.41/34} 15. cxd3 Bb4
{-0.27/34 30} 16. Rae1 d4 {-0.12/31 8} 17. Qxe6+ Qxe6 {-0.22/33} 18. Rxe6+
Kf7 {-0.01/34 6} 19. Rb6 dxc3 {-0.01/39} 20. Rxb4 b5 {+0.00/42} 21. Be5
cxb2 {-0.06/38 6} 22. Rxb2 Rhd8 {-0.01/36 8} 23. d4 Nd5 {-0.04/39 11} 24.
Rc1 Rac8 {-0.01/42 17} 25. Rbc2 Ne7 {-0.01/41} 26. f4 Rxc2 {-0.01/48} 27.
Rxc2 Rc8 {-0.01/48} 28. Rxc8 Nxc8 {-0.01/50 6} 29. Kf2 Ne7 {+0.00/55} 30.
Kf3 Nd5 {+0.00/55 5} 31. Ke4 Nc3+ {+0.00/59} 32. Kd3 Nxa2 {+0.00/57} 33. d5
g6 {+0.00/61} 34. g4 a5 {+0.00/61} 35. Bd6 b4 {+0.00/62} 36. Be5 a4
{+0.00/55 6} 37. Kc4 a3 {+0.00/54} 38. Kb3 Nc1+ {+0.00/63 6} 39. Kxb4 a2
{+0.00/60} 40. Kc4 Ne2 {+0.00/60} 41. f5 gxf5 {+0.00/66} 42. gxf5 Nf4
{+0.00/68} 43. Bb2 Ke7 {+0.00/76 5} 44. Kd4 Nh3 {+0.00/71 5} 45. Kc5 Kd7
{+0.00/80} 46. f6 Ng5 {+0.00/79} 47. Bd4 Ne4+ {+0.00/75 5} 48. Kc4 Nd6+
{+0.00/71} 49. Kb4 Nf5 {+0.00/79 5} 50. Be5 Nh6 {+0.00/84} 51. Kc5 Nf7
{+0.00/84 5} 52. Bd4 Ng5 {+0.00/81 5} 53. Ba1 Nf7 {+0.00/83} 54. h3 Ng5
{+0.00/78 5} 55. h4 Nf7 {+0.00/80 4} 56. Bd4 Nd8 {+0.00/75 5} 57. Ba1 Nf7
{+0.00/87 4} 58. Kd4 Kd6 {+0.00/83 4} 59. Kc4 Kd7 {+0.00/88 5} 60. Kb3 Kd6
{+0.00/83 3} 61. Kxa2 Kxd5 {+0.00/82} 62. Kb3 Ke6 {+0.00/79} 63. Kc4 Nd8
{+0.00/88 4} 64. Kd3 Kd7 {+0.00/89 4} 65. Ke4 Kd6 {+0.00/95 5} 66. Kf5 Kd7
{+0.00/97 4} 67. Ke5 Nf7+ {+0.00/101 4} 68. Kd5 Nd8 {+0.00/99 4} 69. Be5
Ke8 {+0.00/94 3} 70. Bc7 Nf7 {+0.00/98 2.9} 71. Ke6 Kf8 {+0.00/100 3} 72.
Ba5 Nh8 {+0.00/101 3} 73. Bb4+ Ke8 {+0.00/115} 74. Be1 Nf7 {+0.00/103 3}
75. Ba5 Nh8 {+0.00/104 2.7} 76. Bb4 Nf7 {+0.00/100} 77. Be7 Nh8
{+0.00/110 2.8} 78. Ba3 Nf7 {+0.00/108 2.6}
{PlentyChessRB forfeits on time} 1-0

Bart Weststrate · Post by **Bart Weststrate** » Thu Oct 15, 2026 10:34 am

Ke6-f5 was played last by white (we don't see that in your pgn). My take: something goes to fast after a ponderhit and instant move...
Also look at the order of messages: Selate plays after a ponderhit Ke6-f5 before PlentyChess kibitzes the pondermove Nf7...

@Joost: for the record this was game #4681 on the server.

PlentyChessRB(2877)[8] kibitzes: !!! +0.00/100 (0.46 sec, 3592784 nodes, 7793 knps) PV=Nf7 h5 Nd8+ Kf5 Nc6 f7+ Kxf7 Bc3 Ne7+ Ke4 Ke6 Ba1 Nd5 Bb2 Ne7 Kf4 Nd5+ Kg5 Ne7 Ba3 Ng8 Bb2 Kf7 Kg4 Ne7 Bd4 Ng8 Ba1 Nh6+ Kg5 Ng8 Kf4 Ne7 Ke4 Nc6 Bd4 Ke6 Bb2
[kibitz] d52 -0.21 n=13.859.316 Be7 Nh6 Bd8 Nf7 Bb6 Nh8 Bc5 Nf7 Kd5 Nh6
[engine plays b4e7] (used 1.2s)
[pondering on f7h6]
[ponder miss: predicted f7h6, actual was f7h8]
PlentyChessRB(2877)[8] kibitzes: !!! +0.00/110 (2.97 sec, 26071417 nodes, 8775 knps) PV=Nh8 h5 Nf7 Bb4 Nd8+ Kf5 Nc6 f7+ Kxf7 Bc3 Ne7+ Ke4 Ke6 Ba1 Nd5 Bb2 Ne7 Kf4 Nd5+ Kg5 Ne7 Ba3 Ng8 Bb2 Kf7 Kg4 Ne7 Bd4 Ng8 Ba1 Ke8 Kf4 Nh6 Bb2 Nf7 Ba3 Nd8 Kg5 Kf7 Kh6 Kg8 Kg5 Ne6+ Kf6 Ng7 Bb2 Nxh5+
[kibitz] d42 -0.22 n=8.201.134 Ba3 Nf7 Kf5 Kd7 Be7 Ke8 Bb4 Kd7 Bc5 Nh6+ Ke5 Ng4+ ..
[engine plays e7a3] (used 1.4s)
[pondering on h8f7]
[ponder hit: h8f7]
[kibitz] d63 -0.22 n=22.858.716 Kf5 Kd7 Be7 Ke8 Bb4 Kd7 Bc5 Nh6+ Ke5 Ng4+ Kf4 Nxf6 ..
[engine plays e6f5] (used 0.0s)
[pondering on e8d7]
PlentyChessRB(2877)[8] kibitzes: !!! +0.00/108 (2.76 sec, 22113058 nodes, 8009 knps) PV=Nf7 Bb2 Nh8 Kf5 Ng6 h5 Nf8 Ba3 Nd7 Ke6 Nf8+ Bxf8 Kxf8
fics%
{Game 8 (Selate vs. PlentyChessRB) PlentyChessRB forfeits on time} 1-0
Blitz rating adjustment: 2817 --> 2826

Bart Weststrate · Post by **Bart Weststrate** » Thu Oct 15, 2026 12:50 pm

@Ray: has PlentyChess uci option move overhead enabled with for example 100 ms or so? I suspect a timingproblem what maybe with the old server software wasn't there. Wild guesss...

Joost Buijs · Post by **Joost Buijs** » Thu Oct 15, 2026 3:18 pm

The new server is sending time-seal ping messages, also during games, it could be that some clients don't like this, so this is changed now, when in a game the client doesn't get ping messages anymore.

The FICS protocol is a terrible mess, not properly documented anywhere, each client does thing differently. The best solution would be to develop a new well structured protocol based on json messages, with new Windows and Linux clients. If this is worthwhile for just one tournament per month is questionable.

Modern Times · Post by **Modern Times** » Thu Oct 15, 2026 3:50 pm

Bart Weststrate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 12:50 pm @Ray: has PlentyChess uci option move overhead enabled with for example 100 ms or so? I suspect a timingproblem what maybe with the old server software wasn't there. Wild guesss...

Yes, it is set at 500 ms which is the minimum I tend to use for ICS play. I've played a couple of tournaments already with PlentyChess without any issues, although on a different machine where I had that set to 700. Oh well, I'll do some further testing on that usual machine.

Modern Times · Post by **Modern Times** » Thu Oct 15, 2026 5:42 pm

Bart Weststrate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 10:34 am Ke6-f5 was played last by white (we don't see that in your pgn). My take: something goes to fast after a ponderhit and instant move...
Also look at the order of messages: Selate plays after a ponderhit Ke6-f5 before PlentyChess kibitzes the pondermove Nf7...

I was watching the game live. It isn't in the pgn here because PlentyChess never received that move - it was still waiting for the move from Selate, which had in fact been made but it didn't know that.