BanksiaGUI 0.58/rc1 for MS Windows 64 bit

[chessica]

Does anyone here know more than I do why the development of version 1.0 has stalled?

[phhnguyen]

Thanks for your interest in BSG!
There were some reasons I didn’t release a new version of BSG for a while:
1) I changed my job. The new one takes me a lot of time and energy
2) I was upset (a bit) because of some bad mouths/toxic words from some members. Even though I didn’t blame or argue back, that took me some time to relax and regain energy for chess

I have been working continuously with chess programming, and enjoy reading and writing (posted here sometimes, updated CPW, etc). BSG is always my highest priority working project. However, recently, I changed my focus to AI, NNUE. Their results can apply to both chess engines and chess GUIs/BSG. I will update BSG when I have some good research results. I also plan to release a special version of BSG (it may have a different name) for Xiangqi (Chinese chess). Hope that happens soon

[Graham Banks]

Don't listen to the bad-mouthers.

You're the one doing the hard work, and it's a big task you've taken on.

All the best with further development.

[mar]

unfortunately banksia having severe stability issues is a fact, not "bad mouthing/toxic words" (unless that remark referred to something else that I missed)

I personally prefer stability over features, but I know of at least one person who loves banksia despite that

writing a chess GUI is hard work, which I think nobody denies

[Graham Banks]

unfortunately banksia having severe stability issues is a fact, not "bad mouthing/toxic words" (unless that remark referred to something else that I missed)

I personally prefer stability over features, but I know of at least one person who loves banksia despite that

writing a chess GUI is hard work, which I think nobody denies

Mine was just a general statement, that's all.

[RubiChess]

The main problem isn't that the author is unable to fix bugs or introduces two new bugs while fixing an old one.
The main problem is that he refuses to get help by opening his sources.

Andreas

[chessica]

As a rule, I don't think any programmer can handle a project like this on their own. First, a competent person needs to outline the entire concept flawlessly. Only then can the code be written.

[phhnguyen]

The main problem isn't that the author is unable to fix bugs or introduces two new bugs while fixing an old one.
The main problem is that he refuses to get help by opening his sources.

Andreas

As a rule, I don't think any programmer can handle a project like this on their own. First, a competent person needs to outline the entire concept flawlessly. Only then can the code be written.

Thanks to all for the suggestions!!!

However, I doubt the open source can help in my case, the Banksia chess GUI project.

I’m not new to open source. If you visit my GitHub repository, you could see I have published many open source projects for a long time. However, the times I got help from others are so few, and they all could be counted on my fingers.

Chess GUI projects are the same. My Banksia - a Chess tournament manager has already published as an open-source. How many people came to help? So far, after 7 years, only 2 people helped with some small bug fixes and coding-style changes. Nobody really cared about the code or any algorithm deep inside. Noone bothered to contribute any new line of code. There were some real bugs in that project, but nobody knew (except me).

Looking around, there are some open-source chess GUIs on GitHub. How many of them get help? So few, too.

As I have said somewhere, sooner or later, I will publish the BSG source code. I don't plan to make a profit, and I don't need to keep anything from that project a secret. Actually, it has been uploaded already to GitHub, but in private mode, waiting for the day to be opened.

FYI, the BSG project is a medium-sized, quite complicated in algorithms (IMO and to compare, Stockfish chess engine only, not counting NNUE training, Fishtest…, is just a small project when counting the number of files, code lines, algorithms). In contrast, BSG has a huge code, many functions and features that are still challenging other chess GUI projects to implement. It covered many aspects of programming, from chess programming to database management, networking, graphics… Thus, I believe an average programmer will lose interest very soon when seeing the code.

I have some excuses for not publishing the project: I am just too lazy to rewrite some ugly code and document before publishing. However, deep inside, I don't want to publish my current hard work as another already-ignored open-source project; I am not ready to be disappointed again to see that (almost) nobody wants to join and/or can contribute. The lesson from the Banksia project is still new!

Of course, I don’t want to work alone, especially for hobby projects. However, I think the chance of getting another programmer who can take even small parts, say, 10% of workloads, is still smaller than the chance I could win the lottery tonight

I don’t mind sharing the code if someone really wants to work and contribute, but not for collecting / viewing source code only.

Are you daring enough to join me???

[chessica]

Hi, you're right in assuming that nobody's going to bother tearing your code apart to clean it up and fix it. Unfortunately, that's probably how it will be. You cobbled your code together quickly and likely commented it poorly, without creating a plan for a coordinated approach to removing the built-in errors.

This will amount to a new beginning for you, that's how I see it.

[herO]

Nguyen, you have my full support.

To be honest, after reading some of the comments here, I would not blame you at all if you decided not to release any new version for a while. Maybe not even 1.0. Your time, energy and knowledge are worth something and nobody has the right to demand endless free work from you.

I have seen this pattern in the computer chess community for many years. First people praise something, then they get used to receiving updates, features and improvements for free and when development slows down, suddenly the same people start complaining, mocking, or acting as if the developer owes them something. We saw similar attitudes around engines and GUIs before - Rybka, Houdini, Komodo, HIARCS Chess Explorer and others. A lot of people want professional level software, corporate-level stability, perfect documentation, constant updates, and open source access, but they do not want to pay, contribute, or even show basic respect.

BanksiaGUI was updated very actively for a long time. Week after week there was real work being done. It is easy to forget that when you are only on the user side and never have to build anything yourself.

I also understand your hesitation about open sourcing the project. "Just open the source" sounds nice, but in reality most people will only look, criticize, or collect the code. Very few will actually fix hard problems, clean up complex areas, test properly, or take responsibility for maintaining anything. A serious chess GUI is not a small weekend script. It touches engine management, databases, graphics, networking, tournaments, analysis, protocols and many other areas. That is real engineering work.

Personally, I do not think you should feel any pressure to publish the code or release a new version just because people ask for it. Do it only when you want to do it, and only in a way that still gives you joy. If the current community reaction kills your motivation, then the community has failed, not you.

I liked BanksiaGUI a lot, especially in the earlier versions. It had something that reminded me of the good feeling I get from HIARCS Chess Explorer. I also think BanksiaGUI still has unique strengths that other GUIs do not have. At the same time, I honestly think the project has been pushed more and more toward the engine tournament crowd and less toward normal human chess players who actually play OTB chess, study games, prepare, analyze and enjoy chess as a game. That is a pity, because the original potential was huge.

But whatever direction you choose, the important point is this: your work deserves respect. Not cheap demands from people who contribute nothing.

If you ever decide to create a Patreon, donation page, paid version, or any kind of support model, I would gladly contribute. I would much rather support a developer directly than watch good projects slowly get drained by people who only complain.

So from my side thank you for all the work you have already done. Do not let the noise decide for you. Release something only if it makes sense for you.