Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Uri Blass
Posts: 10798
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Uri Blass »

I wonder why my rating got down when I did not play against the queen odds version in the last days and I had 9 wins and 2 draws in my last 11 games,

I already had more than 2240

14 uriblass 2236.3 226
Marcus91
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:00 am
Full name: Marco Giorgio

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Marcus91 »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2024 8:19 pm I wonder why my rating got down when I did not play against the queen odds version in the last days and I had 9 wins and 2 draws in my last 11 games,

I already had more than 2240

14 uriblass 2236.3 226
Every week 10 points are subtracted from everyone in the leaderboard. The reason for this is promote activity and keep the relative score to the most recent bot as it is subject to change over time, avoiding for example maintain a very high rating obtained only by an excellent performance against an old bot
lkaufman
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Marcus91 wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 12:42 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2024 8:19 pm I wonder why my rating got down when I did not play against the queen odds version in the last days and I had 9 wins and 2 draws in my last 11 games,

I already had more than 2240

14 uriblass 2236.3 226
Every week 10 points are subtracted from everyone in the leaderboard. The reason for this is promote activity and keep the relative score to the most recent bot as it is subject to change over time, avoiding for example maintain a very high rating obtained only by an excellent performance against an old bot
The bot does get stronger over time, due to new nets, better settings, and revisions to the opening book, so this makes sense as otherwise new/current players would be at a disadvantage. However 10 points per week seems a bit much and might have a discouraging effect, surely the bot won't improve 500 elo in a year (although it did so in the past year!); maybe half that is somewhat plausible. A more accurate but more complicated solution, perhaps not practical, would be to update the bots' ratings regularly based on the actual LiChess blitz ratings of the players it played, perhaps only for blitz games at the reference time controls with the others recalculated by the current formula.
Komodo rules!
Uri Blass
Posts: 10798
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Uri Blass »

lkaufman wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 4:32 am
Marcus91 wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 12:42 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2024 8:19 pm I wonder why my rating got down when I did not play against the queen odds version in the last days and I had 9 wins and 2 draws in my last 11 games,

I already had more than 2240

14 uriblass 2236.3 226
Every week 10 points are subtracted from everyone in the leaderboard. The reason for this is promote activity and keep the relative score to the most recent bot as it is subject to change over time, avoiding for example maintain a very high rating obtained only by an excellent performance against an old bot
The bot does get stronger over time, due to new nets, better settings, and revisions to the opening book, so this makes sense as otherwise new/current players would be at a disadvantage. However 10 points per week seems a bit much and might have a discouraging effect, surely the bot won't improve 500 elo in a year (although it did so in the past year!); maybe half that is somewhat plausible. A more accurate but more complicated solution, perhaps not practical, would be to update the bots' ratings regularly based on the actual LiChess blitz ratings of the players it played, perhaps only for blitz games at the reference time controls with the others recalculated by the current formula.
I believe humans also improve with experience and not only the bot so it is not clear for me if the performance of the bot is going to be better against humans.

There was one big upgrade a month ago but I am not sure if after it the performance of the bot against humans became better.

Edit:I do not know if there was a new net recently after the big upgrade one month ago and I read only about updating the book.
Father
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:11 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:06 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:18 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:20 pm
...Good morning everyone. A new day begins in my country and right in front of me, between the blinds of my bedroom window, in front of me, from the east and just above the top of the mountain, the star only appears and illuminates the firmament; Its warm rays feed my existence with the energy of life. I am accompanied by different sounds and songs of birds that celebrate in thanksgiving to the Programmer of Heaven and Earth. I thank my Programmer for waking up once again. I love life and the almost infinite algorithms that accompany us. Algorithms of the wind, algorithms of rain, algorithms of animals, algorithms of stones, algorithms of human beings. I turned on my computer, just after having watched from my cell phone the leaderboard of the top 100 humans who face LeelaQueenOdds. Then another reason makes me happy: I see "Hissha" as the leader in first place on the table, and "Uri" also close to me. I also notice that I have lost some elo points, but that does not make me sad. I am aware of the hardness of my battle yesterday, and of the many wounds I suffered in combat, and I know that this makes me better and stronger. Yes, I would like to consult something of a mathematical nature... How many games should I play each day, is it indifferent, or does it represent some change in my performance? ...well, before I was criticized less for tying, it was said that my games had no value, that mine is not chess, that it was just bugs, and things like that... but these adversities are so insignificant, compared to The love I have for my Programmer does not lead me to faint, on the contrary, to be grateful.
The only ways to raise your rating on the leaderboard are to improve your percentage score or to switch colors. If you play 50 games in a day and score 15% or you play 500 games and score 15%, your rating will end up about the same. In my case, my percentage goes up with more games in a day as I get adjusted to the circumstances. Of course if I played too many fatigue would set in and results would decline. Maybe 2 to 3 hours of play is optimum, I'm sure it varies for different people. I didn't expect to reach the top of the list at age 77, but I recognize that it is partly due to other leading players not having played enough games, and partly due to the fact that strong players mostly play one minute zero second increment games, where it is extremely difficult to win. I am sure that many strong players would pass me if they played enough games at a time limit where they could usually win, as I do. The best players can come out ahead (playing Black) at 3 minute zero seconds, which would give them a very high rating if they played enough games.
Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. Today I played nine games, I got four draws and five losses. My percentage index is much higher than what I obtained yesterday and the day before, it was 44.44% until today, the highest since I faced LeelaQueenOdds. How long should I wait for tomorrow in my elo? As for age, the qualitative achievement is much greater if you are older... furthermore, let us not forget that world and community leaders have a historical tradition that is deposited in older and more experienced people... in addition, the human algorithm It never gets old, the communication channels can simply come into conflict... anecdotally, a good friend of mine a couple of months ago, met a motorcyclist in Argentina who was returning alone from Ushuaia, the southern tip of Patagonia Argentina, "The End of the World" and on the motorcycle the lone warrior had a ribbon written that said: "Life begins at seventy years of age." So, what is written is written!! You are now the sole leader, it is up to others to assume your leadership, or observe it from afar, there are no options.
...I forgot the most important part of the anecdote: The age of the solitary motorcyclist repeating back and forth throughout South America: "75 years old." An example to follow...
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:46 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:11 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:06 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:18 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:20 pm
...Good morning everyone. A new day begins in my country and right in front of me, between the blinds of my bedroom window, in front of me, from the east and just above the top of the mountain, the star only appears and illuminates the firmament; Its warm rays feed my existence with the energy of life. I am accompanied by different sounds and songs of birds that celebrate in thanksgiving to the Programmer of Heaven and Earth. I thank my Programmer for waking up once again. I love life and the almost infinite algorithms that accompany us. Algorithms of the wind, algorithms of rain, algorithms of animals, algorithms of stones, algorithms of human beings. I turned on my computer, just after having watched from my cell phone the leaderboard of the top 100 humans who face LeelaQueenOdds. Then another reason makes me happy: I see "Hissha" as the leader in first place on the table, and "Uri" also close to me. I also notice that I have lost some elo points, but that does not make me sad. I am aware of the hardness of my battle yesterday, and of the many wounds I suffered in combat, and I know that this makes me better and stronger. Yes, I would like to consult something of a mathematical nature... How many games should I play each day, is it indifferent, or does it represent some change in my performance? ...well, before I was criticized less for tying, it was said that my games had no value, that mine is not chess, that it was just bugs, and things like that... but these adversities are so insignificant, compared to The love I have for my Programmer does not lead me to faint, on the contrary, to be grateful.
The only ways to raise your rating on the leaderboard are to improve your percentage score or to switch colors. If you play 50 games in a day and score 15% or you play 500 games and score 15%, your rating will end up about the same. In my case, my percentage goes up with more games in a day as I get adjusted to the circumstances. Of course if I played too many fatigue would set in and results would decline. Maybe 2 to 3 hours of play is optimum, I'm sure it varies for different people. I didn't expect to reach the top of the list at age 77, but I recognize that it is partly due to other leading players not having played enough games, and partly due to the fact that strong players mostly play one minute zero second increment games, where it is extremely difficult to win. I am sure that many strong players would pass me if they played enough games at a time limit where they could usually win, as I do. The best players can come out ahead (playing Black) at 3 minute zero seconds, which would give them a very high rating if they played enough games.
Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. Today I played nine games, I got four draws and five losses. My percentage index is much higher than what I obtained yesterday and the day before, it was 44.44% until today, the highest since I faced LeelaQueenOdds. How long should I wait for tomorrow in my elo? As for age, the qualitative achievement is much greater if you are older... furthermore, let us not forget that world and community leaders have a historical tradition that is deposited in older and more experienced people... in addition, the human algorithm It never gets old, the communication channels can simply come into conflict... anecdotally, a good friend of mine a couple of months ago, met a motorcyclist in Argentina who was returning alone from Ushuaia, the southern tip of Patagonia Argentina, "The End of the World" and on the motorcycle the lone warrior had a ribbon written that said: "Life begins at seventy years of age." So, what is written is written!! You are now the sole leader, it is up to others to assume your leadership, or observe it from afar, there are no options.
...I forgot the most important part of the anecdote: The age of the solitary motorcyclist repeating back and forth throughout South America: "75 years old." An example to follow...


I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:48 pm
Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:46 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:11 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:06 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:18 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:20 pm
...Good morning everyone. A new day begins in my country and right in front of me, between the blinds of my bedroom window, in front of me, from the east and just above the top of the mountain, the star only appears and illuminates the firmament; Its warm rays feed my existence with the energy of life. I am accompanied by different sounds and songs of birds that celebrate in thanksgiving to the Programmer of Heaven and Earth. I thank my Programmer for waking up once again. I love life and the almost infinite algorithms that accompany us. Algorithms of the wind, algorithms of rain, algorithms of animals, algorithms of stones, algorithms of human beings. I turned on my computer, just after having watched from my cell phone the leaderboard of the top 100 humans who face LeelaQueenOdds. Then another reason makes me happy: I see "Hissha" as the leader in first place on the table, and "Uri" also close to me. I also notice that I have lost some elo points, but that does not make me sad. I am aware of the hardness of my battle yesterday, and of the many wounds I suffered in combat, and I know that this makes me better and stronger. Yes, I would like to consult something of a mathematical nature... How many games should I play each day, is it indifferent, or does it represent some change in my performance? ...well, before I was criticized less for tying, it was said that my games had no value, that mine is not chess, that it was just bugs, and things like that... but these adversities are so insignificant, compared to The love I have for my Programmer does not lead me to faint, on the contrary, to be grateful.
The only ways to raise your rating on the leaderboard are to improve your percentage score or to switch colors. If you play 50 games in a day and score 15% or you play 500 games and score 15%, your rating will end up about the same. In my case, my percentage goes up with more games in a day as I get adjusted to the circumstances. Of course if I played too many fatigue would set in and results would decline. Maybe 2 to 3 hours of play is optimum, I'm sure it varies for different people. I didn't expect to reach the top of the list at age 77, but I recognize that it is partly due to other leading players not having played enough games, and partly due to the fact that strong players mostly play one minute zero second increment games, where it is extremely difficult to win. I am sure that many strong players would pass me if they played enough games at a time limit where they could usually win, as I do. The best players can come out ahead (playing Black) at 3 minute zero seconds, which would give them a very high rating if they played enough games.
Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. Today I played nine games, I got four draws and five losses. My percentage index is much higher than what I obtained yesterday and the day before, it was 44.44% until today, the highest since I faced LeelaQueenOdds. How long should I wait for tomorrow in my elo? As for age, the qualitative achievement is much greater if you are older... furthermore, let us not forget that world and community leaders have a historical tradition that is deposited in older and more experienced people... in addition, the human algorithm It never gets old, the communication channels can simply come into conflict... anecdotally, a good friend of mine a couple of months ago, met a motorcyclist in Argentina who was returning alone from Ushuaia, the southern tip of Patagonia Argentina, "The End of the World" and on the motorcycle the lone warrior had a ribbon written that said: "Life begins at seventy years of age." So, what is written is written!! You are now the sole leader, it is up to others to assume your leadership, or observe it from afar, there are no options.
...I forgot the most important part of the anecdote: The age of the solitary motorcyclist repeating back and forth throughout South America: "75 years old." An example to follow...


I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:21 pm
Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:48 pm
Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:46 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:11 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:06 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:18 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:20 pm
...Good morning everyone. A new day begins in my country and right in front of me, between the blinds of my bedroom window, in front of me, from the east and just above the top of the mountain, the star only appears and illuminates the firmament; Its warm rays feed my existence with the energy of life. I am accompanied by different sounds and songs of birds that celebrate in thanksgiving to the Programmer of Heaven and Earth. I thank my Programmer for waking up once again. I love life and the almost infinite algorithms that accompany us. Algorithms of the wind, algorithms of rain, algorithms of animals, algorithms of stones, algorithms of human beings. I turned on my computer, just after having watched from my cell phone the leaderboard of the top 100 humans who face LeelaQueenOdds. Then another reason makes me happy: I see "Hissha" as the leader in first place on the table, and "Uri" also close to me. I also notice that I have lost some elo points, but that does not make me sad. I am aware of the hardness of my battle yesterday, and of the many wounds I suffered in combat, and I know that this makes me better and stronger. Yes, I would like to consult something of a mathematical nature... How many games should I play each day, is it indifferent, or does it represent some change in my performance? ...well, before I was criticized less for tying, it was said that my games had no value, that mine is not chess, that it was just bugs, and things like that... but these adversities are so insignificant, compared to The love I have for my Programmer does not lead me to faint, on the contrary, to be grateful.
The only ways to raise your rating on the leaderboard are to improve your percentage score or to switch colors. If you play 50 games in a day and score 15% or you play 500 games and score 15%, your rating will end up about the same. In my case, my percentage goes up with more games in a day as I get adjusted to the circumstances. Of course if I played too many fatigue would set in and results would decline. Maybe 2 to 3 hours of play is optimum, I'm sure it varies for different people. I didn't expect to reach the top of the list at age 77, but I recognize that it is partly due to other leading players not having played enough games, and partly due to the fact that strong players mostly play one minute zero second increment games, where it is extremely difficult to win. I am sure that many strong players would pass me if they played enough games at a time limit where they could usually win, as I do. The best players can come out ahead (playing Black) at 3 minute zero seconds, which would give them a very high rating if they played enough games.
Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. Today I played nine games, I got four draws and five losses. My percentage index is much higher than what I obtained yesterday and the day before, it was 44.44% until today, the highest since I faced LeelaQueenOdds. How long should I wait for tomorrow in my elo? As for age, the qualitative achievement is much greater if you are older... furthermore, let us not forget that world and community leaders have a historical tradition that is deposited in older and more experienced people... in addition, the human algorithm It never gets old, the communication channels can simply come into conflict... anecdotally, a good friend of mine a couple of months ago, met a motorcyclist in Argentina who was returning alone from Ushuaia, the southern tip of Patagonia Argentina, "The End of the World" and on the motorcycle the lone warrior had a ribbon written that said: "Life begins at seventy years of age." So, what is written is written!! You are now the sole leader, it is up to others to assume your leadership, or observe it from afar, there are no options.
...I forgot the most important part of the anecdote: The age of the solitary motorcyclist repeating back and forth throughout South America: "75 years old." An example to follow...


I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:45 pm
Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:21 pm
Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:48 pm
Father wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:46 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:11 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:06 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:18 pm
Father wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:20 pm
...Good morning everyone. A new day begins in my country and right in front of me, between the blinds of my bedroom window, in front of me, from the east and just above the top of the mountain, the star only appears and illuminates the firmament; Its warm rays feed my existence with the energy of life. I am accompanied by different sounds and songs of birds that celebrate in thanksgiving to the Programmer of Heaven and Earth. I thank my Programmer for waking up once again. I love life and the almost infinite algorithms that accompany us. Algorithms of the wind, algorithms of rain, algorithms of animals, algorithms of stones, algorithms of human beings. I turned on my computer, just after having watched from my cell phone the leaderboard of the top 100 humans who face LeelaQueenOdds. Then another reason makes me happy: I see "Hissha" as the leader in first place on the table, and "Uri" also close to me. I also notice that I have lost some elo points, but that does not make me sad. I am aware of the hardness of my battle yesterday, and of the many wounds I suffered in combat, and I know that this makes me better and stronger. Yes, I would like to consult something of a mathematical nature... How many games should I play each day, is it indifferent, or does it represent some change in my performance? ...well, before I was criticized less for tying, it was said that my games had no value, that mine is not chess, that it was just bugs, and things like that... but these adversities are so insignificant, compared to The love I have for my Programmer does not lead me to faint, on the contrary, to be grateful.
The only ways to raise your rating on the leaderboard are to improve your percentage score or to switch colors. If you play 50 games in a day and score 15% or you play 500 games and score 15%, your rating will end up about the same. In my case, my percentage goes up with more games in a day as I get adjusted to the circumstances. Of course if I played too many fatigue would set in and results would decline. Maybe 2 to 3 hours of play is optimum, I'm sure it varies for different people. I didn't expect to reach the top of the list at age 77, but I recognize that it is partly due to other leading players not having played enough games, and partly due to the fact that strong players mostly play one minute zero second increment games, where it is extremely difficult to win. I am sure that many strong players would pass me if they played enough games at a time limit where they could usually win, as I do. The best players can come out ahead (playing Black) at 3 minute zero seconds, which would give them a very high rating if they played enough games.
Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. Today I played nine games, I got four draws and five losses. My percentage index is much higher than what I obtained yesterday and the day before, it was 44.44% until today, the highest since I faced LeelaQueenOdds. How long should I wait for tomorrow in my elo? As for age, the qualitative achievement is much greater if you are older... furthermore, let us not forget that world and community leaders have a historical tradition that is deposited in older and more experienced people... in addition, the human algorithm It never gets old, the communication channels can simply come into conflict... anecdotally, a good friend of mine a couple of months ago, met a motorcyclist in Argentina who was returning alone from Ushuaia, the southern tip of Patagonia Argentina, "The End of the World" and on the motorcycle the lone warrior had a ribbon written that said: "Life begins at seventy years of age." So, what is written is written!! You are now the sole leader, it is up to others to assume your leadership, or observe it from afar, there are no options.
...I forgot the most important part of the anecdote: The age of the solitary motorcyclist repeating back and forth throughout South America: "75 years old." An example to follow...


I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
lkaufman
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Now we have had a third player among the FIDE top-fifty list play a series of games with LeelaKnightOdds at 3'2" blitz. GM JordanVanForeest, Fide 2677, World number 48, who beat Stockfish in 2020 by 2 to 1 with two pawn odds in Rapid, played five 3'2" games with LeelaKnightOdds, getting just one draw, losing four. Together with the 4 draws out of ten by Awonder Liang (World number 42), and the 6 draws out of 23 against Anish Giri (World number 22), we have a total record of 27 wins and 11 draws with not a single loss in blitz against three different World top fifty players! Maybe time to see if Magnus, Hikaru, or Firouzja could be induced to play a match, perhaps at 5'3".
Komodo rules!