Hint for ChessGUI users

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Ajedrecista
Posts: 2097
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: Hint for ChessGUI users.

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Jon:
jdart wrote:What I find annoying though is classifications that are just way wrong. For example:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 c5 6. d5 exd5 7. Nh4 g6 8. Nc3 Bg7 9. O-O d6

was classified A63 (Benoni) but this is a fairly standard position from E16 (QID).

--Jon
I posted a snippet of an ECO list and the most similar line (exact matches of the first plies) I found in it is:

Code: Select all

{E15   Queen's Indian: Rubinstein Variation}1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 c5 6.d5 exd5 7.Nh4
That agrees with your thoughts of a QID. However, playing with Arena 2.0.1, the line is classified as E15 Queen's Indian: Rubinstein Variation up to 9. O-O, but when 9. ... d6 is played, the ECO code changes to A30 English: Symmetrical, Hedgehog System, 6...d6 7.d4. I already commented that changes in my previous post of this thread. My guess is that it is difficult to deal with some transpositions.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
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Norm Pollock
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:15 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA

Re: Hint for ChessGUI users

Post by Norm Pollock »

ECO classification by SCIDvsPC is excellent. SCID handles transpositions and gives the ECO based on the transposition position. It also gives you the option of 3 or 4 character classifications. The databases that I am involved with all use SCIDvsPC re-classification of ECO.

Here is a snippet from scid.eco. What it does is try to match the game to as many moves as possible. If it matches "6.Qc2" and no further matches, then the temp ECO is "D36a". If it matches further, let's say, "6...Be7", then the temp ECO is now "D36c". The final ECO is the last temp ECO.

Code: Select all

D36a "QGD: Exchange, 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 *
D36a "QGD: Exchange, 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 g6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 g6 *
D36b "QGD: Exchange, 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Na6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Na6 *
D36c "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 *
D36c "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 *
D36c "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 Nbd7"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 Nbd7 *
D36c "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 O-O"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 O-O *
D36d "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 g6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 g6 *
D36e "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 g6 8.e3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.Nf3 g6 8.e3 *
D36f "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 *
D36f "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 O-O"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 O-O *
D36f "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 O-O 8.Bd3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 O-O 8.Bd3 *
D36g "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 h6 *
D36g "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 h6 8.Bh4 O-O *
D36g "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 h6 8.Bh4 O-O
  9.Bd3 Re8 *
D36h "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 *
D36h "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 8.Nf3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 8.Nf3 *
D36i "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 8.Bd3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 8.Bd3 *
D36j "QGD: Exchange, 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 8.Bd3 Nf8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 Nf8 *
D36k "QGD: Exchange, Main Line"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O *
D36k "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 *
D36k "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2 h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 h6 *
D36k "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2 h6 10.Bh4"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 h6 10.Bh4 *
D36l "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2 Re8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 Re8 *
D36m "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2 Re8 10.O-O"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 Re8 10.O-O *
D36m "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2 Re8 10.O-O Nf8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 *
D36n "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nge2 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.f3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nge2 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.f3 *
D36o "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 *
D36o "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 h6 *
D36o "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 h6 10.Bh4"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 h6 10.Bh4 *
D36p "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 *
D36p "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.h3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.h3 *
D36p "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.h3 Nf8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.h3 Nf8 *
D36q "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.h3 Nf8 11.Bf4"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.h3 Nf8 11.Bf4 *
D36r "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O *
D36r "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O h6 11.Bh4 *
D36r "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O Nf8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O Nf8 *
D36r "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O Nf8 11.h3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O-O Nf8 11.h3 *
D36s "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O *
D36t "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O h6 *
D36t "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O h6 11.Bf4 *
D36t "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O h6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O h6 11.Bh4 *
D36u "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 *
D36v "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.Rae1"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.Rae1 *
D36w "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.h3"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.h3 *
D36x "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.h3 g6"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.h3 g6 *
D36y "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.Rab1"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.Rab1 *
D36z "QGD: Exchange, Main Line, 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.Rab1 a5"
  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7
  8.Bd3 O-O 9.Nf3 Re8 10.O-O Nf8 11.Rab1 a5 *
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jdart
Posts: 4397
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
Location: http://www.arasanchess.org

Re: Hint for ChessGUI users.

Post by jdart »

Chessbase is consistent in calling this E16. They have a pretty good coder.

E15 is close. A30 covers all kinds of symmetrical systems with c4 c5, so that is plausible but I think a good coder would consider it a less exact match. And it is not A63 for certain. I got this example from one of Ed Schroder's files - I think he is using ChessGUI or maybe Arena.

--Jon
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User avatar
Ajedrecista
Posts: 2097
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain.

Re: Hint for ChessGUI users.

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Norm:
Norm Pollock wrote:ECO classification by SCIDvsPC is excellent. SCID handles transpositions and gives the ECO based on the transposition position. It also gives you the option of 3 or 4 character classifications. The databases that I am involved with all use SCIDvsPC re-classification of ECO.
The file scid.eco in SCID 4.16 is very similar to the one that I have from Arena, even in size. The classification of Jon's line is identical in the two cases, the last E15 line:

Code: Select all

// From Arena 2.0.1:

*Version=1.17
*Author= Christopher Conkie

[...]

{E15   Queen's Indian: Rubinstein Variation}1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 c5 6.d5 exd5 7.Nh4
{E16   Queen's Indian: Capablanca Variation}1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 Bb4+

Code: Select all

# scid.eco
#
# Encyclopaedia of Chess Openings file for Scid vs. PC
#
# Copyright (C) 1999- Shane Hudson and others.
# Last updated: Febuary, 2014
#
# In addition to standard ECO definitions, scid.eco allows for extensions:
# Each basic code can have a lower case letter extension (a-z), and an extra
# level (1-4). So the order of ECO codes for A00 is:
# A00, A00a, A00a1, A00a2, A00a3, A00a4, A00b, A00b1, ..., A00z4.
#
# You can convert this file to PGN format with the "eco2pgn.py" script,
# and to EPD with the "eco2epd" (use "make eco2pgn").

[...]

*E15v "Queen's Indian: Rubinstein Variation"
  1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 c5 6.d5 exd5 7.Nh4

*E16a "Queen's Indian: Capablanca Variation"
  1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 Bb4+
It seems like Arena and SCID vs PC would agree most of the time.

@Jon: my intention with this post is not saying that you are wrong with the E15/E16 issue but claim that Arena and SCID should agree most of the time just comparing their ECO lists.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.
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Matthias Gemuh
Posts: 3245
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am

Re: Hint for ChessGUI users.

Post by Matthias Gemuh »

jdart wrote:Chessbase is consistent in calling this E16. They have a pretty good coder.

E15 is close. A30 covers all kinds of symmetrical systems with c4 c5, so that is plausible but I think a good coder would consider it a less exact match. And it is not A63 for certain. I got this example from one of Ed Schroder's files - I think he is using ChessGUI or maybe Arena.

--Jon
Ed has been using Arena. I have never read anywhere that he has ever used ChessGUI .
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
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