No chance

[George Tsavdaris]

The other line I didn't fully analyzed, and I don't yet see any win, but first line is clear draw so lets play it.
so 25...Nxa3 26.Bf2 Qa5:
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 2 25
So your turn?

The win is there, the order of moves might be different, but the win is there. I must concentrate now on the other game, but later might come back to this.

Please note that I do not have to consider anything, as I know white's advantage in terms of eval after Qf6 is some 5-6 full pawns, meaning mate is close by. White just keeps the structure. Wherever the rabious black knight is sacrificed, a3,b4,e7,d6, white does not capture and simply increases threats on the king. If the knight is sacrificed on e4, after passing through d6, white captures it, and immediately after that closes the game again with Be3.

White combines the following threats in different lines:
- battery of rooks along the h file
- mating with Bh6-g7 and Rh8, with a single rook on the h file needed
- if the f8 rook goes away, f7 pawn falls and white f6 pawn decides the game; that is why SF outwardly strange moves like Rb7, to protect f7, before moving the f8 rook
- in a number of lines, checking with Rg7 first, so the king goes to h8, and then Rh3 is immediately lethal
- if h5 is played, then of course Bh5 wins easily

Still no answer? I.e concrete move.

Because if 26...Qa5!! holds then this position is busted and your confidence that this is so easy to win is wrong.

Furthermore, I, as an external observer, see that in the previous moves you were answering with SPECIFIC moves, but in this position with 25...Nxa3 26.Bf2 Qa5 you didn't answer like that, but only by giving a long theoretical answer but not the single MOVE that is needed to justify your "white is winning easily here".


Chess is so complex and amazing, that for example in this position there are countless variations that lead to amazingly pretty and tough for computers moves that lead to a win for white, but there may be ONE variation that black can force, that makes this a draw and spoill all the beauty from the position.


For now 26...Qa5 seems to hold and make this just a draw and mean all the testpositions were wrong(for example the sacrifice 22.Qf6+ or 19.Be1 etc) suggesting a white win.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

The other line I didn't fully analyzed, and I don't yet see any win, but first line is clear draw so lets play it.
so 25...Nxa3 26.Bf2 Qa5:
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 2 25
So your turn?

The win is there, the order of moves might be different, but the win is there. I must concentrate now on the other game, but later might come back to this.

Please note that I do not have to consider anything, as I know white's advantage in terms of eval after Qf6 is some 5-6 full pawns, meaning mate is close by. White just keeps the structure. Wherever the rabious black knight is sacrificed, a3,b4,e7,d6, white does not capture and simply increases threats on the king. If the knight is sacrificed on e4, after passing through d6, white captures it, and immediately after that closes the game again with Be3.

White combines the following threats in different lines:
- battery of rooks along the h file
- mating with Bh6-g7 and Rh8, with a single rook on the h file needed
- if the f8 rook goes away, f7 pawn falls and white f6 pawn decides the game; that is why SF outwardly strange moves like Rb7, to protect f7, before moving the f8 rook
- in a number of lines, checking with Rg7 first, so the king goes to h8, and then Rh3 is immediately lethal
- if h5 is played, then of course Bh5 wins easily

Still no answer? I.e concrete move.

Because if 26...Qa5!! holds then this position is busted and your confidence that this is so easy to win is wrong.

Furthermore, I, as an external observer, see that in the previous moves you were answering with SPECIFIC moves, but in this position with 25...Nxa3 26.Bf2 Qa5 you didn't answer like that, but only by giving a long theoretical answer but not the single MOVE that is needed to justify your "white is winning easily here".


Chess is so complex and amazing, that for example in this position there are countless variations that lead to amazingly pretty and tough for computers moves that lead to a win for white, but there may be ONE variation that black can force, that makes this a draw and spoill all the beauty from the position.


For now 26...Qa5 seems to hold and make this just a draw and mean all the testpositions were wrong(for example the sacrifice 22.Qf6+ or 19.Be1 etc) suggesting a white win.

I did it exhaustively for the way Milos asked, you should read the thread also psychologically, and not only with a physical eye.

I think I am doing more here in answering you, George, as you ask in the same vein, but as you asked with 4 months apart...

Qa5 does not hold, rest assured.
You can not ask from me to provide all lines for all positions, find them yourself.

[George Tsavdaris]

I did it exhaustively for the way Milos asked, you should read the thread also psychologically, and not only with a physical eye.

I think I am doing more here in answering you, George, but as you asked with 4 months apart...

Well giving you 4 months for finding a move is not too short isn't it?

So do you have a specific move that wins for white in this position?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 2 27

I really hoped this position to be a good testposition(white to win) but i'm afraid it is just a draw, but perhaps you know better, that's why i'm asking.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

I did it exhaustively for the way Milos asked, you should read the thread also psychologically, and not only with a physical eye.

I think I am doing more here in answering you, George, but as you asked with 4 months apart...

Well giving you 4 months for finding a move is not too short isn't it?

So do you have a specific move that wins for white in this position?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 2 27

I really hoped this position to be a good testposition(white to win) but i'm afraid it is just a draw, but perhaps you know better, that's why i'm asking.

Which position should I consider first, this one, or the one with Louis and Smyslov?

As you rightly say, there are innumerable lines.

Obvious first moves for white you might want to consider are Rg1 (which I think is no good), Rh3, and Be1 (which I preferred initially).

Besides, it is possible that lfirst moves like Rh7 and Bh5 are also in store for some surprise.

As soon as I have a breath of fresh air, and in case you do not find the solution, I will tell you what to play.

In the meantime, why do not you be so kind to do a fair share of the work and refute all of the above suggested moves?

Easy task, is not it?

Eagerly waiting for your analysis, once you refute all of them, I will tell you the answer.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

OK George.

Milos made 2 moves in a row!

I did not observe that, as I was tired then, just as I am now.

If you check the thread carefully, you will see this is the real position from the game:

[d][d]5rk1/1r3p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1BB1P/3R3K b - - 0 10

So here white wins easily.
Milos played Na3 and Qa5 at the same time!

Is this the way to proceed?
How much time should I spend on answering such posts?

But, even the second position with 2 black moves made in a row is won, so white actually wins here with a null move.

[George Tsavdaris]

OK George.

Milos made 2 moves in a row!

I did not observe that, as I was tired then, just as I am now.

If you check the thread carefully, you will see this is the real position from the game:

[d][d]5rk1/1r3p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1BB1P/3R3K b - - 0 10

I don't care about the game and the possible wrong way Stockfish played, i care about the position. And if in this position, white wins as you have said from the beginning or if it is a draw and you were wrong. That is what i do care.

And the move 25...Rb7?? is a blunder so it's of no use here.
So Milos had said what is your answer after 25...Nxa3 (instead of 25...Rb7??) and how white wins the game?
And then you said with 26.Bf2 white wins.
And then he replied with 26...Qa5! and then asked you to find a move that wins for white.
That is what we are asking here.

How white wins here? What move does he have to play here?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 0 27



**And he didn't make 2 moves in a raw for black. I explain above.

So here white wins easily.
Milos played Na3 and Qa5 at the same time!

Is this the way to proceed?
How much time should I spend on answering such posts?

He didn't play 2 moves for black in a row.
He played Nxa3, then white replies Bf2 and then he proposed Qa5.

[Alexander Schmidt]

OK George.

Milos made 2 moves in a row!

I did not observe that, as I was tired then, just as I am now.

If you check the thread carefully, you will see this is the real position from the game:

[d][d]5rk1/1r3p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1BB1P/3R3K b - - 0 10

I don't care about the game and the possible wrong way Stockfish played, i care about the position. And if in this position, white wins as you have said from the beginning or if it is a draw and you were wrong. That is what i do care.

And the move 25...Rb7?? is a blunder so it's of no use here.
So Milos had said what is your answer after 25...Nxa3 (instead of 25...Rb7??) and how white wins the game?
And then you said with 26.Bf2 white wins.
And then he replied with 26...Qa5! and then asked you to find a move that wins for white.
That is what we are asking here.

How white wins here? What move does he have to play here?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 0 27



**And he didn't make 2 moves in a raw for black. I explain above.

So here white wins easily.
Milos played Na3 and Qa5 at the same time!

Is this the way to proceed?
How much time should I spend on answering such posts?

He didn't play 2 moves for black in a row.
He played Nxa3, then white replies Bf2 and then he proposed Qa5.

But Bf2 is not by Lyudmil. Replace Bf2 by Bd2:

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P1BB2P/3R3K w - - 6 29

Mate in 6

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

OK George.

Milos made 2 moves in a row!

I did not observe that, as I was tired then, just as I am now.

If you check the thread carefully, you will see this is the real position from the game:

[d][d]5rk1/1r3p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1BB1P/3R3K b - - 0 10

I don't care about the game and the possible wrong way Stockfish played, i care about the position. And if in this position, white wins as you have said from the beginning or if it is a draw and you were wrong. That is what i do care.

And the move 25...Rb7?? is a blunder so it's of no use here.
So Milos had said what is your answer after 25...Nxa3 (instead of 25...Rb7??) and how white wins the game?
And then you said with 26.Bf2 white wins.
And then he replied with 26...Qa5! and then asked you to find a move that wins for white.
That is what we are asking here.

How white wins here? What move does he have to play here?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 0 27



**And he didn't make 2 moves in a raw for black. I explain above.

So here white wins easily.
Milos played Na3 and Qa5 at the same time!

Is this the way to proceed?
How much time should I spend on answering such posts?

He didn't play 2 moves for black in a row.
He played Nxa3, then white replies Bf2 and then he proposed Qa5.

You should really care, because that is called cheating, but a real one, not like the ones often invoked on that forum.

So you want me in the heat of the game to analyse all possible Milos whims, going back unspecified number of moves?

When I look now at the position (as I also can go back), an easier win for white after Na3 is Bd2 instead of Bf2:

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P1BB2P/3R3K b - - 0 2
White threatens quick mate with Nd4, Rh4, Bh6-g7 and Rh8, which seems unavoidable.

But please tell me, when are you going to take your fair share of the work, and provide us with your valuable refutation of the moves I suggested?

Because in this way you simply expect input, but contribute nothing.
I want to see your contribution.

[George Tsavdaris]

Which position should I consider first, this one, or the one with Louis and Smyslov?

There is one position only. The one you gave from the beginning:
[d]r4rk1/1b2bp1p/1q2p1p1/3pPnP1/p1pP2Q1/PpP1PN1R/1P5P/R1BB3K w - - 0 17

This position we are trying to see if white is winning as per your statements of easy win for white. If indeed moves like 22.Qf6+ sacrificing the Queen, are excellent and amazing one's winning for white, or if they are just a draw.

So we try to find the best possible continuation for black.
So we ended up after 17. Bd2 Rab8 18. Be2 Bc6 19. Be1 Nxe3 20. Qf4 Nc2 21. Rd1 Kg7 22. Qf6+ Bxf6 23. gxf6+ Kg8 24. Ng5 h6 25. Rxh6 Nxa3 26. Bf2 Qa5
To the position:
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 0 27

Where you said white wins. How? I ask again.
I can't seem to find a clear win for white.

Obvious first moves for white you might want to consider are Rg1 (which I think is no good), Rh3, and Be1 (which I preferred initially).

•So we have 27.Rg1 Qxc3! and now how white wins?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/npq5/1P2BB1P/6RK w - - 0 28


•So we have 27.Be1 Nc2 and now how white wins?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 0 28


•So we have 27.Rh3! Nb5! 28.Rg1 Nd6 and now how white wins?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2bnpPp1/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP4R/1P2BB1P/6RK w - - 0 29

[kgburcham]

OK George.

Milos made 2 moves in a row!

I did not observe that, as I was tired then, just as I am now.

If you check the thread carefully, you will see this is the real position from the game:

[d][d]5rk1/1r3p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1BB1P/3R3K b - - 0 10

I don't care about the game and the possible wrong way Stockfish played, i care about the position. And if in this position, white wins as you have said from the beginning or if it is a draw and you were wrong. That is what i do care.

And the move 25...Rb7?? is a blunder so it's of no use here.
So Milos had said what is your answer after 25...Nxa3 (instead of 25...Rb7??) and how white wins the game?
And then you said with 26.Bf2 white wins.
And then he replied with 26...Qa5! and then asked you to find a move that wins for white.
That is what we are asking here.

How white wins here? What move does he have to play here?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 0 27



**And he didn't make 2 moves in a raw for black. I explain above.

So here white wins easily.
Milos played Na3 and Qa5 at the same time!

Is this the way to proceed?
How much time should I spend on answering such posts?

He didn't play 2 moves for black in a row.
He played Nxa3, then white replies Bf2 and then he proposed Qa5.

You should really care, because that is called cheating, but a real one, not like the ones often invoked on that forum.

So you want me in the heat of the game to analyse all possible Milos whims, going back unspecified number of moves?

When I look now at the position (as I also can go back), an easier win for white after Na3 is Bd2 instead of Bf2:

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P1BB2P/3R3K b - - 0 2
White threatens quick mate with Nd4, Rh4, Bh6-g7 and Rh8, which seems unavoidable.

But please tell me, when are you going to take your fair share of the work, and provide us with your valuable refutation of the moves I suggested?
Because in this way you simply expect input, but contribute nothing.
I want to see your contribution.

is this the correct line?
Are these the correct positions?
this thread is not clear and no analysis.
Lyudmil does not show program analysis with clear lines.
I think these type of threads are showing a pattern and I think it is called fishing, and it is working for some.

does Lyudmil say this is a mate in 8 from this position?

[d] 1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1pQp1/3pP1P1/p1pP4/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K b - -

is this the correct Lyudmil mate line?
1... Bxf6 2. gxf6+ Kg8 3. Ng5 h6 4. Rxh6 Ne3 5. Rh7 Nxd1

position after the above line, is this correct? does Lyudmil say this is still a mate in just a few moves?

[d] 1r3rk1/5p1R/1qb1pPp1/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1P2B2P/3nB2K w - -

someone please clear this up for me, where is the Lyudmil mate in 8 instead of a draw?
kgburcham