Not at all, its my pleasure...RIDDICK wrote:Hi Sedat Canbaz, thanks for your opinion but I don't agree with what you said. Engine test must be heterogeneous as possible! If an opening line is weak, both engines should be able to exploit weaknesses of such opening line. If B52: Sicilian Moscow is a weak opening line, both engines would have to win at least one game. Instead Houdini only was able to win two games (white and black side), but Stockfish none (5-3 with 6 draws). Also the opening lines choices by Graham Banks, have been carefully selected. For these reasons I chose this library openings, it has been carefully selected and it is really heterogeneous.Sedat Canbaz wrote:I'd like point out that due to no much free time,I checked only the last one, B52: Sicilian Moscow
Where I noticed Stockfish or any other Top engines will suffer (as Whites) due to critical, weak openings...
And it does not matter reversed colors or...
The top engines should be really very carefully tested... especially under these conditions
My recommendation is that, the top engines should be tested with very strong openings,when I say with very strong openings, I dont mean about the opening lines,which are played by Grandmaster moves, I mean especially for lines, which suit to Top Engines styles...
I think Houdini is more complete engine (that is stronger) than Stockfish (for now clearly), and this match is an excellent testing ground!
Actually I don't expect that all chess fans should have same view as mine
All of us see differently the world...
And if everybody agrees with me, that means I am doing it wrong
But however, I think I have a little bit knowledge regarding opening lines and from my experience I can say:
X engine (depending on weak/strong openings) can perform approx. 0-300 Elo points, this is already proven...
For example, check the below link:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/?page_id=323
Code: Select all
SedatChess2, Naum 4 3278
NaumBook(small), Naum 4 3164
SedatChess3, Stockfish 1.4/1.5 JA 3228
Stockfish140509.bin, Stockfish 1.5 JA 3120
SedatChess, Rybka 3 3368
Marlboro1, Rybka 3 3098
SedatChess4, Zappa Mexico II 3216
Zap!Chess, Zappa Mexico II 3086Rest engines (red and black names) are played with NON-Perfect books
Yes...here I agree with you that 'Engine test must be heterogeneous as possible'
But just I'd like to add:
- Engine Test should be done with the strongest opening lines as far as possible!!
*I mean if we run such serious test, where those openings should suit for both engine style...
And in my opinion, B52 Sicilian Moscow variation does not suit for Stockfish'style (for under these conditions)
Note also that my testing conditions are completely different than yours,for example the main ones:
1)I use Stockfish 070114 x64 6c
2) My hardwares are playing at default speed (for maximum stability and strenght)
3)I use different openings than you...
Btw, I have nothing against Graham's openings, he is a very good and experienced person,and good chess friend of mine...
Plus Graham's efforts for chess are greatly appreciated...we need more Grahams too
And my opening books are not perfect too, it's true that the name of my book is 'Perfect'
But the performance of Perfect book for both engine styles is not perfect
And after many years working over Perfect books, still I see sometimes critical/weak opening lines in my books
But as far as possible I am doing my best and soon I hope to optimize those lines too...
And I am afraid that again later will appear some lines, where they will need optimization too
But however, I believe in that (with respect to all):
-we should be very careful especially in selecting of the openings...
Because the engines's strenght is changing, the processor speed is changing,
the opening theory shoud be changed too, where only my love to Computer Chess is never changing
And I have a question to all:
-If Stockfish is weaker than Komodo or Houdini, then how Stockfish 1c managed to beat Komodo 6c
Note: Stockfish won using 1 core and even with Blacks!!
And how Stockfish managed to win the my latest SCCT 24 Hour Per Game:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/?page_id=717
Plus, if Stockfish is weaker..then how managed to win my latest 40/120
Note: the last game is playing and soon I hope to publish the results
One thing more,
if Stockfish is weaker...then how managed to win SCCT Rating list:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/?page_id=515
And last,
Personally I believe for Blitz: Stockfish is stronger than Komodo and Stockfish is equal in strenght to Houdini,
but at slow time controls (for a better conclusion) we have no much data on latest fast machines...
In other words, we need testings based on thousands of games....
And many thanks again for your efforts, your testing is very interesting and usefull...!
Actually my previous posting was directly to Anil, who is 100 % wrong regarding Stockfish!!
Have a nice weekend,
Sedat
I've just stated FACTS...just because you don't like them doesn't make me a troll, you moron.