Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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ThomasJMiller
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by ThomasJMiller »

Sedat Canbaz wrote:In other words,
Those engines, which are with 50 % + similarity will be out of my Scratch engine testing and later I will continue testing only the top 20 scratch engines, which are bellow than 50 % similarity !
Can you please tell us where does that 50% figure come from? Or is it just a random percentage?

Do you know that Don's similarity tester doesn't work with external games? It already contains 8236 balanced positions.

I think you are a bit confused about what "original engine", "written from scratch", "derivative", "clone" and so on really mean.
elcabesa
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by elcabesa »

Sedat Canbaz wrote:Just to make it more clear,

In other words,
Those engines, which are with 50 % + similarity will be out of my Scratch engine testing and later I will continue testing only the top 20 scratch engines, which are bellow than 50 % similarity !

Sedat
my engine, Vajolet, result very different from other engines looking the similarity test.
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ht=vajolet

if you read the thread more in detail you'll notice someone started to question about vajolet originality.
this is not the thread to talk about vajolet originality and I don't want to go off topic. This is only to let you know that it will be very difficult to let everyone agree with the originality/from scratch of a program.
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Evert
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Evert »

pedrox wrote:If you use alpha-beta, you do not you start from scratch.
If you use null move, you do not you start from scratch.
If you use hash tables, you do not you start from scratch.
If you use mailbox or bitboards for gen moves, you do not start from scratch.
If you're using futility prunning, razoring or LMR you do not you start from scratch.
etc.
No offense, but that is one of the stupidest lines of reasoning I've ever read. If I read up how a Runge-Kutta integrator works and write one from scratch, I've still written it from scratch, haven't I? I may not have invented the algorithm, but I wrote the code, and that is what the question was.

"Written from scratch" does not imply "written from scratch and invented all the algorithms and data structures independently".
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velmarin
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by velmarin »

Sedat Canbaz wrote:Just to make it more clear,

I have already started the test with the bellow conditions:


So...I hope to publish the new results in a few days...

After playing many games (approx. 100 games) per player, I will have a request from the Chess Experts about running a similarity test/data (the tool by Don Dailey)

In other words,
Those engines, which are with 50 % + similarity will be out of my Scratch engine testing and later I will continue testing only the top 20 scratch engines, which are bellow than 50 % similarity !

Please don't take very seriously my new testing project, its just a fun test, my main goal with the current test is to see more real own engine playings styles...!!
Thanks for your understanding and good luck to all,
Sedat
Could you tell us exactly chasing the tournament.
It's about finding the best engine under certain conditions.
It is the purest search engine.
Or is it a witch hunt.

I am not convinced, expect anything ... more poetic ...
Arsha Mahdavi
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Arsha Mahdavi »

Hello sedat

Smash chess engine is old and has a bug which slows down its search. Anyway I fixed the bug and made a new compilation.

Deep Smash 64-bit, Supports up to 1024 Mb Hash, 4 threads.

[MODERATION]
Link removed. Smash has a GPL license.


PS: I'm not sure it works on Windows XP anyway.
Sedat Canbaz
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Sedat Canbaz »

Arsha Mahdavi wrote:Hello sedat

Smash chess engine is old and has a bug which slows down its search. Anyway I fixed the bug and made a new compilation.

Deep Smash 64-bit, Supports up to 1024 Mb Hash, 4 threads.

[MODERATION]
Link removed. Smash has a GPL license.


PS: I'm not sure it works on Windows XP anyway.
Thanks for the update :)

I will check it and if there is any problem I will inform you
Sedat Canbaz
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Sedat Canbaz »

Dear Friends,

My new current project has no any goal about proving which engine is original, which is clone and so on...

With the current test,
Just I want to test and see those engines, which have more own playing styles...

One thing more,
Just I'd like to make it more clear about in case of 50 % + similarity
Then I will allow testing that X engine, which is scored with higher winning percentage


Once more I'd like to mention,
PLEASE dont take too seriously the current my new testing
It's a just a fun testing (it's not official...)

I am really sorry if I have offended anyone

Have a nice weekend,
Sedat Canbaz
Adam Hair
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Adam Hair »

Arsha Mahdavi wrote:Hello sedat

Smash chess engine is old and has a bug which slows down its search. Anyway I fixed the bug and made a new compilation.

Deep Smash 64-bit, Supports up to 1024 Mb Hash, 4 threads.

[MODERATION]
Link removed. Smash has a GPL license.


PS: I'm not sure it works on Windows XP anyway.
Hi Arsha,

I am excited about a version of Smash that has a bug removed. However, I can not allow the link to be displayed here until the GNU General Public License, version 2 is obeyed. You need to provide a copy of GNU GPL ver2 with the version of Smash that you are distributing, and you must provide access to the source code.

I know that this seems extreme for an inactive engine, but it is best that we all observe the license that an author attaches to their work.

Thanks,
Adam

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Adam Hair
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Adam Hair »

Sedat Canbaz wrote:Dear Friends,

My new current project has no any goal about proving which engine is original, which is clone and so on...

With the current test,
Just I want to test and see those engines, which have more own playing styles...

One thing more,
Just I'd like to make it more clear about in case of 50 % + similarity
Then I will allow testing that X engine, which is scored with higher winning percentage


Once more I'd like to mention,
PLEASE dont take too seriously the current my new testing
It's a just a fun testing (it's not official...)

I am really sorry if I have offended anyone

Have a nice weekend,
Sedat Canbaz
Hi Sedat,

Welcome back! Your presence in computer chess has been missed.

I would like to say that 50%+ similarity is much too low a threshold. There is a good chance that two unrelated (different authors) engines could be found to have 50% similarity according to the similarity tool. I recommend that, if you plan to use the similarity tool to prefilter the engines in your testing, the threshold be raised to at least 60%. My observations from applying the similarity test to over 450 engine versions and statistics suggest that it is highly unlikely that two unrelated engines would have 60% similarity (according to the similarity tool).

I would also like to warn you that the similarity tool will work poorly or not at all with several of the proposed engines. You may have to exclude some original and unique engines from your testing due to their incompatibility with the similarity tool.

Good luck!
Adam
Sedat Canbaz
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Re: Which are the chess engines written from scratch ?

Post by Sedat Canbaz »

Adam Hair wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:Dear Friends,

My new current project has no any goal about proving which engine is original, which is clone and so on...

With the current test,
Just I want to test and see those engines, which have more own playing styles...

One thing more,
Just I'd like to make it more clear about in case of 50 % + similarity
Then I will allow testing that X engine, which is scored with higher winning percentage


Once more I'd like to mention,
PLEASE dont take too seriously the current my new testing
It's a just a fun testing (it's not official...)

I am really sorry if I have offended anyone

Have a nice weekend,
Sedat Canbaz
Hi Sedat,

Welcome back! Your presence in computer chess has been missed.

I would like to say that 50%+ similarity is much too low a threshold. There is a good chance that two unrelated (different authors) engines could be found to have 50% similarity according to the similarity tool. I recommend that, if you plan to use the similarity tool to prefilter the engines in your testing, the threshold be raised to at least 60%. My observations from applying the similarity test to over 450 engine versions and statistics suggest that it is highly unlikely that two unrelated engines would have 60% similarity (according to the similarity tool).

I would also like to warn you that the similarity tool will work poorly or not at all with several of the proposed engines. You may have to exclude some original and unique engines from your testing due to their incompatibility with the similarity tool.

Good luck!
Adam

Dear Adam,

Thank you your kind words...

You are amazing ! You are reading my thoughts !
Right now I was reading your great posting:
http://www.top-5000.nl/clone.htm

Yes., agreed with you... İt's better to increase the similarity from 50 % to 60 %


Thank you again and best wishes,
Sedat