At this point:
8 | |||||||||
7 | |||||||||
6 | |||||||||
5 | |||||||||
4 | |||||||||
3 | |||||||||
2 | |||||||||
1 | |||||||||
a | b | c | d | e | f | g | h |
1R6/1P3pkp/1r4p1/8/1p6/5P2/4K1PP/8 w - - 0 41
It was quite clear white was dead lost, but the engines really needed to calculate it to death.
Moderator: Ras
8 | |||||||||
7 | |||||||||
6 | |||||||||
5 | |||||||||
4 | |||||||||
3 | |||||||||
2 | |||||||||
1 | |||||||||
a | b | c | d | e | f | g | h |
Hi AlbertAlbert Silver wrote:It is rather interesting to see the difficulty that some endgame evaluations still pose, even without requiring special shots to be seen. In today's game between Wojtaszek-Navara, the endgame that ensued was only understood to be lost much much later than strong human players.
At this point:
8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 a b c d e f g h
1R6/1P3pkp/1r4p1/8/1p6/5P2/4K1PP/8 w - - 0 41
It was quite clear white was dead lost, but the engines really needed to calculate it to death.
Hi AlbertAlbert Silver wrote:It is rather interesting to see the difficulty that some endgame evaluations still pose, even without requiring special shots to be seen. In today's game between Wojtaszek-Navara, the endgame that ensued was only understood to be lost much much later than strong human players.
At this point:
8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 a b c d e f g h
1R6/1P3pkp/1r4p1/8/1p6/5P2/4K1PP/8 w - - 0 41
It was quite clear white was dead lost, but the engines really needed to calculate it to death.
I'm not sure that white was a dead lost. Can you post some moves or plan for black?Albert Silver wrote:It is rather interesting to see the difficulty that some endgame evaluations still pose, even without requiring special shots to be seen. In today's game between Wojtaszek-Navara, the endgame that ensued was only understood to be lost much much later than strong human players.
At this point:
8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 a b c d e f g h
1R6/1P3pkp/1r4p1/8/1p6/5P2/4K1PP/8 w - - 0 41
It was quite clear white was dead lost, but the engines really needed to calculate it to death.
That pretty much sums it up.Uri Blass wrote:I did not do a lot of analysis but
the plan for black seems simple for me.
1)put the black pawn at b2 and force the white king to go to b1
2)make waiting move until white has no pawn moves and has to move the rook so black won a pawn.
3)win the rook endgame with pawn up that should be easy when you have a rook behind the pawn because you progress with your king and support the pawns and the opponent king cannot defend because if the opponent is going to capture the pawn you trade rooks and win the pawn endgame and if the and if the opponent try to move the king and block with the rook you sacrifice the pawn by promoting it and again trade rooks and win the pawn endgame.
White may try to defend by sacrificing the pawn and blocking the black pawn with the rook but I believe that it also wins for black.
Well, computers don't have much of a clue...Albert Silver wrote:That pretty much sums it up.
Very nice explanation Uri.Uri Blass wrote:I did not do a lot of analysis but
the plan for black seems simple for me.
1)put the black pawn at b2 and force the white king to go to b1
2)make waiting move until white has no pawn moves and has to move the rook so black won a pawn.
3)win the rook endgame with pawn up that should be easy when you have a rook behind the pawn because you progress with your king and support the pawns and the opponent king cannot defend because if the opponent is going to capture the pawn you trade rooks and win the pawn endgame and if the and if the opponent try to move the king and block with the rook you sacrifice the pawn by promoting it and again trade rooks and win the pawn endgame.
White may try to defend by sacrificing the pawn and blocking the black pawn with the rook but I believe that it also wins for black.
Well now, afterUri Blass wrote:I did not do a lot of analysis but
the plan for black seems simple for me.
1)put the black pawn at b2 and force the white king to go to b1
2)make waiting move until white has no pawn moves and has to move the rook so black won a pawn.
3)win the rook endgame with pawn up that should be easy when you have a rook behind the pawn because you progress with your king and support the pawns and the opponent king cannot defend because if the opponent is going to capture the pawn you trade rooks and win the pawn endgame and if the and if the opponent try to move the king and block with the rook you sacrifice the pawn by promoting it and again trade rooks and win the pawn endgame.
White may try to defend by sacrificing the pawn and blocking the black pawn with the rook but I believe that it also wins for black.
8 | |||||||||
7 | |||||||||
6 | |||||||||
5 | |||||||||
4 | |||||||||
3 | |||||||||
2 | |||||||||
1 | |||||||||
a | b | c | d | e | f | g | h |
After 6. Rxb2 it is a draw.ernest wrote:Well, computers don't have much of a clue...Albert Silver wrote:That pretty much sums it up.
Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32 gtb:
1.Kd2 b3 2.Kc1 b2+ 3.Kb1 h5 4.Rc8 Rxb7 5.Rc2 Rb4 6.Rxb2 Rc4 7.Rc2 Rh4 8.h3 Rd4 9.Kc1 Kf6 10.Rc5 Ra4 11.Kb2 h4 12.Rb5 Ra8 13.Rb4 Re8 14.Rf4+ Kg7 15.Rg4 Re2+ 16.Kc3 f5 17.Rxh4 Rxg2 18.Rb4
= (-0.09) Depth: 30/53 00:13:29 1606mN, tb=1184
After 6. Rh8 looks like white is holding positionZappa Mexico II is a little more optimistic, but not much
Analysis by Zappa Mexico II:
1.Kd2 b3 2.Kc1 b2+ 3.Kb1 Kh6 4.f4 Kg7 5.g3 Kf6 6.g4 Rb4 7.h3 Rb6 8.h4 Rb3 9.Kc2
-/+ (-1.06) Depth: 18/51 00:00:29 32611kN, tb=1