Should downloadlinks for Ippo/Robbo be allowed again?

[Dann Corbit]

Hi Steve,

I really hope the moderation team will stand bold to its decision despite the outcome of the poll.

Though the can of worms is already open, CCC imho should not support those 'guys' by allowing direct links.

Regards,
Joerg.

Agreed.

So far you both are a minority

Perhaps, but I notice that those supporting it are in a minority when it comes to posting their support.
Allowing the hackers, crackers and cloners plus their supporters to take over CCC should not be permitted under any circumstances. Their is already a forum elsewhere set up for them, and don't forget, you're their hero at present.

You probably know that social exclusion is not good for anyone. It only stimulates misbehaviour, criminality etc.

Putting criminals into prison is one form of social exclusion.

Not allowing men into women's restrooms is another form of social exclusion.

Not allowing 6 year old children into x-rated movies is another form of social exclusion.

I would argue that none of these forms of social exclusion stimulates misbehavior or criminality.

Social exclusion can be benificial or detrimental. It depends upon the form of exclusion and the reason for the exclusion.

When you signed up for this forum, you agreed (among other things) that posts of questionable legality would not be permitted. I agree that this is a form of exclusion. Whether it is a good form or a bad form is debatable, but certainly it is something that you have agreed to obey.

[Albert Silver]

I'm not actually voting since I could really go either way on this, but I thought I'd share my thoughts.

It's not clear to me from the charter why links should be removed. I gather the mods think it falls under item 5, "Are not of questionable legal status"

Yet the charter makes no provisions for linking. And I guess my personal opinion is what harm can it do to the forum? Links are not, in themselves illegal. The content they link to might be, but links are not content. At worst, it seems the forum might get a takedown notice. That doesn't represent danger either.

Hm. I guess that was rather one-sided. I don't have much to say for the other side except that I am quite capable of finding anything that gets removed from the forum. So, there isn't a huge downside to removing them either.

Here's the issue about links. Is it ok to post a link that takes you directly to a download for a pirated movie, or program? One that is _known_ to be an illegal copy? Posting a link only increases the level of piracy for that movie/program/etc.

It goes deeper than that IMHO. A link is not random noise. A link leads to specific information, and the person who provides the link must bear some responsibility when providing such information knowingly. I may bear no responsibility whatsoever with the existence or content of the site the link leads to, but by linking you to it I have effectively facilitated and directed you to whatever material lies at the other side.

These forums cannot claim to be about protecting and helping computer chess, and at the same time help abuse that very same community.

[Graham Banks]

You probably know that social exclusion is not good for anyone. It only stimulates misbehaviour, criminality etc.

Well as a Serb who ran away to Brazil, you should know.

[swami]

Christopher Conkie replies to every single post pertaining to this topic.

now he hasn't anymore...

I wonder if he is banned from posting into CCC or something?

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Same as Dann if you cant use google to search these engines, then what the heck do you need a poll to approve the link here? Only reason is to massage your ego. Stop wasting your time posting here and spend your time searching for these clones then. Get off your lazy butt and Google it. Or do you like to be spoonfed like a baby?

Stop talking about impeachment did you get your law degree from a online course?

Google?
Isn't it also prohibited to provide a link that itself provides (many) links to the engine mentioned?

Think about this: my friend wants to kill his wife. He asks me to provide him with a professional killer's name and phone number.
But I don't want to give him the killer's name myself, so I send him to another guy who has a long list of professional killer's contacts. Hmm...

Things are very muddled

Either way,you're doing him a big favour Bob

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Christopher Conkie replies to every single post pertaining to this topic.

now he hasn't anymore...

I wonder if he is banned from posting into CCC or something?

I have no idea Swami,but I don't bother either
Dr.D

[rhollay]

Same as Dann if you cant use google to search these engines, then what the heck do you need a poll to approve the link here? Only reason is to massage your ego. Stop wasting your time posting here and spend your time searching for these clones then. Get off your lazy butt and Google it. Or do you like to be spoonfed like a baby?

Stop talking about impeachment did you get your law degree from a online course?

Google?
Isn't it also prohibited to provide a link that itself provides (many) links to the engine mentioned?

Think about this: my friend wants to kill his wife. He asks me to provide him with a professional killer's name and phone number.
But I don't want to give him the killer's name myself, so I send him to another guy who has a long list of professional killer's contacts. Hmm...

Things are very muddled

Either way,you're doing him a big favour Bob

Even bigger if we were talking about his mother-in law. In that case probably I would provide him with all necessary info.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Same as Dann if you cant use google to search these engines, then what the heck do you need a poll to approve the link here? Only reason is to massage your ego. Stop wasting your time posting here and spend your time searching for these clones then. Get off your lazy butt and Google it. Or do you like to be spoonfed like a baby?

Stop talking about impeachment did you get your law degree from a online course?

Google?
Isn't it also prohibited to provide a link that itself provides (many) links to the engine mentioned?

Think about this: my friend wants to kill his wife. He asks me to provide him with a professional killer's name and phone number.
But I don't want to give him the killer's name myself, so I send him to another guy who has a long list of professional killer's contacts. Hmm...

Things are very muddled

Either way,you're doing him a big favour Bob

Even bigger if we were talking about his mother-in law. In that case probably I would provide him with all necessary info.

Yep,getting rid of the big boss first is a priority
Dr.D

[Jouni]

Even without any evidence I am sure that Ippo/Robbo is clone: why publish superstrong engine without getting any money or at least fame for
your real name? Additionally if your first engine is 3100 rated it is not
credible at all!

Jouni

[Michael Sherwin]

Even without any evidence I am sure that Ippo/Robbo is clone: why publish superstrong engine without getting any money or at least fame for
your real name? Additionally if your first engine is 3100 rated it is not
credible at all!

Jouni

Someone that believes in a Marxist philosophy would do what the author of Ippolit--according to the Ippolit website--has allegedly done. It makes perfect sense. As far as the strength is concerned, well that is not proof.

Evidence:

1.) Vas says that it is a Rybka 3 clone.

2.) Jury says that it is not Rybka 3 but rather it is Rybka 4.

1 and 2 are mutually exclusive.

3.) There is strong evidence that it was developed from many sources and MAY have some reversed engineered ideas from Rybka.

1 and 2 are greatly discounted by 3.

4.) The programming style is very different and rather amateurish. I doubt that Vas would start from an example like that of Fruit and devolve the code into separate search functions for white and black. It would be naive to think that it would be faster.

5.) There are some differences and some similarities in its play compared to Rybka, but the differences are much more prominent.

...

How many versions of Fruit was there before it became the strongest program in the world 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.1? What if there were several versions of Ippolit, in "chess language b", before it was translated into C to make it available to the west?

Bottom line is that the evidence for cloning is rather thin and the evidence for a lot of originality is rather high. So, unless someone that is trusted disassembles Rybka 3 and finds a nearly 1 to 1 correlation in search functions, evaluation functions or evaluation constants then I for one choose to err on the side of innocent until proven guilty rather than joining in on a witch hunt.