Thoughts...

[fern]

In any case progress in any area operates as a mix of cheating, invention, copy, rediscovery, plagiarism, creation from scratch, more copy, etc.
It is not a pure and aesthetic process to be sure and what matters, progress we have...

Fern

[Graham Banks]

So what is VR's statement worth? I'll give the answer to you: Nothing.

Somehow disappointed,
Alex

So applying the consistency that you're so avidly advocating, you're now implying that no engine author can be trusted about anything they say about their engine unless they disclose their code? All the cloners would love that.

Even more disappointed,
Graham.

[Alexander Schmidt]

So applying the consistency that you're so avidly advocating, you're now implying that no engine author can be trusted about anything they say about their engine unless they disclose their code?

Even more disappointed,
Graham.

Oh my god, what is wrong with you guys?

I was not asking to distrust "all authors of closed engine".

Maybe there is something wrong with Ippolit, but for me it is unguilty until prooven the opposite.

Funny that nearly exclusive people from the so called "constitutional states" forget this basic principles here...

[Graham Banks]

Oh my god, what is wrong with you guys?

I was not asking to distrust "all authors of closed engine".

Just Vas?

[Alexander Schmidt]

Ippolit is not just a decompiled Rybka, thats a fact.

If VR said this, he is wrong.

I don't "distrust" people because of a wrong statement. I don't know if it was done deliberately or not.

[Rolf]

1) Vas is a integer character who never lied.

Then he is quite unique on the world

Do you know him very well? Is he liveing in your neighbourhood?

Perhaps you grant me same what you claimed for yourself? I am neither a native speaker. Of course I meant he didnt lie or was never caught in the act of lying here in our community with his messages and statements. Nice how you take like a child every little possibility for your own ideas. But you dont evaluate the overall picture, the whole.

Just tell me this. Are you in family bonds with Norm Schmidt the several times caught cheating cloner? Somehow you sound like him in your hate against Vas. It reads, everything must be allowed if it serves the purpose of doing harm to this guy...

Please reconsider your position from the start. And please tell me are you living in Germany? Just to know what copyright laws one must take for you. Sorry if you even never heard of Norm.

[Graham Banks]

Ippolit is not just a decompiled Rybka, thats a fact.

If VR said this, he is wrong.

I don't "distrust" people because of a wrong statement. I don't know if it was done deliberately or not.

Perhaps I'm just wrongly more trusting of engine authors than you are. Vas told me personally that it was an illegal clone of Rybka 3, so at this stage I choose not to test it.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Alexander Schmidt]

Just tell me this. Are you in family bonds with Norm Schmidt the several times caught cheating cloner?

No, I am not.

Somehow you sound like him in your hate against Vas.

I don't hate VR. What a crap.

[michiguel]

Ippolit will move the computerchess forward.


Sure,

Miguel

I am not a native english speaker. I mean it will make future chessprogramms stronger.

I am not a native English speaker either. I know what you meant, and I meant the opposite. Reverse engineering of engines is not progress, it will hurt.

No comment on the more important points?

I commented on the most important one.

I am curious, how do you know Robinhoodito is 70 elo points stronger than Rybka? I saw mentioned this but I have not seen any serious match posted here.

Miguel

[bob]

Thoughts?

I agree with a single idea in your post and that is the fact that commercials like Fritz, Junior, Shredder etc. never were reverse engineered like Rybka. The only reason for that fact is that all the above have money behind them (ChessBase money) while Rybka is such a pain in the ___ of the antique former winner guys that it's blew their minds and made them believe that Rybka must be a cheat (from Fruit) because how otherwise someone could have found something they all had missed for years.

Tiger author Theron once wrote here in CCC that if he would forget about morals and would steal from Fruit then he could achive the same what Rajlich had achieved, but he, Theron, would have morals... When that had appeared I was outraged because of the unproven dirt. It has never been proven since then and Vas never was taken to court for anything.

Again, also then Theron never was interested in Fritz or Junior. So you ask a bit for too much if you claim now that therefore also your I____ should remain alive.

The reason why decent people in the community condemned these clones,

1) Vas is a integer character who never lied or pretended sonmething false

2) The evil of such inventions like Strelka or others is NOT only the clone stuff, it's that then this was published open in public so that more and more the secrets of Vas code became known. NB that the code of Fritz and others never was mistreated this way. You criticise it but the reason is money.

3) The talents who mistreat Rybka all along do not plan to have their own product in championships or tests, the sole purpose is the mistreatment of Rybka and its author. Unfortunately a lot of famous guys in CCC have helped that sort of campaign and I was among a few who criticised that from its beginning.

After 5 years to me it seems as if Rajlich is a saint because he's smart, but others are also smart, but he has the morals, the ethics and the philosophy to take such negative incidents with the patience of a wise monk who doesnt want to let himself be disturbed in pursuing his own path.

A couple of questions. Why do you need to bring Theron's name into the discussion? He has not participated in this thread. Why do you want to continue to praise Vas as a victimized saint? There is no doubt that parts of fruit are in Rybka 1. Absolutely no doubt. Whether they remain in R2 and R3 (or even R4) is a guess, but not for R1. And that is certainly something that is not considered reasonable.

How about contributing positive stuff, or else not contributing at all, so that our moderator email doesn't get choked up with complaints about your posts? You rehash either the rybka/fruit issue, or the deep blue issue, over and over and over. Rybka/Fruit genie is out of the bottle. Time to move on. Deep Blue hasn't existed for 12 years now. Time to move on there as well. Your continual complaints are not going to change either of those situations.