Rybka 1.0 vs. Strelka

[Guetti]

All this "discussion" is totally absurd.

And why?

The acid test is this: can you explain what is going on in these threads to your wife/girlfriend?

Certainly. It would be much easier than discussion about it with Uri.

[Steve B]

actually this type of discussion is tailored made for the CCC and always has been
Today we are seeing forums created by specific engines...
the Rybka forum as an example
we see nothing about this there..not one word..even after days of discussion and literally 100's of posts
and this is to be expected

This topic is being discussed in the Rybka forum. Your comments are totally inaccurate and reflect your own bias.

i did not realize it was being discussed in the Flip Side forum because i did not think to look there
i stand corrected on that one small part of my post
The Flip side is considered a CTF type of forum and i thought to look in the main forum which personally i think is where a discussion about this properly belongs
i have no bias what so ever
i am the owner of Rybka 2.2 and have paid for two licenses for it at 75 Euro per licence
i was happy when Rybka was offered for the Revelation and Resurrection II dedicated computers
i personally was the major financial sponser of the Rybka-GM Benjamin Draw odds match
i have posted photos of one of Rybka first matches against a GM in Chile on my web site(GM Morovic):



my post simply was meant to express my opinion that THIS forum is certainly independent of any particular engine and the discussion of evidence and its analysis should continue and is certainly On Topic here

Best Regards
Steve

[kranium]

To the mods,
(with all due respect for a good job under difficult circumstances)

As I see it, there is one user here (and one only) who consistently uses words like evil, campaign, convict, cheat, allegations, innuendo, insinuation, smear, legality, guilty, innocent, sue, attacking, abuse, etc. His rigorous and relentless effort has successfully fanned the flames of this (and many other) thread, and what once was a calm and respectful discussion of facts, is now burning fiercely (the desired effect). of course the mods (rightfully) see a need to intervene when the blaze burns brightly.

His effort seems entirely intent on creating anger and controversy in any way and at any cost, and it's really hurting the open and respectful exchange of ideas.

Although I like Rolf (not sure why ), I think he really needs to be brought under control and use some discretion with his words...

Well, Rolf has been using this style of language now since 1995. He's an old papal edifice of computer chess forums and he does, certainly in this case, provide an important balance of argument. Rolf uses a kind-of psycho-intuition on topics, sometimes he gets it right and sometimes wrong - the language is a kind-of provocative probe into the viewpoints of the other side which sometimes bears fruit, sometimes not. There is a fine line of course between provocative probing and mud-slinging and moderators have the unenviable task of trying to distinguish between the two, not helped by differences in general opinion of the moderators themselves. Or you could see it all as part of life's rich tapestry, maybe?

What are you suggesting actually? His posts are edited? Deleted? Or? I mean gimme some advice here

i wish i could suggest a solution, i mean i think he has a right to post here as much as anybody. i trust and will accept what you decide. my point was really to just bring attention to the inflammatory nature of the bulk of his posts.

thanks for your attention to the matter.
Norm

[Rolf]

actually this type of discussion is tailored made for the CCC and always has been
Today we are seeing forums created by specific engines...
the Rybka forum as an example
we see nothing about this there..not one word..even after days of discussion and literally 100's of posts
and this is to be expected

This topic is being discussed in the Rybka forum. Your comments are totally inaccurate and reflect your own bias.

i did not realize it was being discussed in the Flip Side forum because i did not think to look there
i stand corrected on that one small part of my post
The Flip side is considered a CTF type of forum and i thought to look in the main forum which personally i think is where a discussion about this properly belongs
i have no bias what so ever
i am the owner of Rybka 2.2 and have paid for two licenses for it at 75 Euro per licence
i was happy when Rybka was offered for the Revelation and Resurrection II dedicated computers
i personally was the major financial sponser of the Rybka-GM Benjamin Draw odds match
i have posted photos of one of Rybka first matches against a GM in Chile on my web site(GM Morovic):



my post simply was meant to express my opinion that THIS forum is certainly independent of any particular engine and the discussion of evidence and its analysis should continue and is certainly On Topic here

Best Regards
Steve

That doesnt convince because the very same thread was for a long time there in the normal part of Rybka topics. Only later it was moved.

[bnculp]

actually this type of discussion is tailored made for the CCC and always has been
Today we are seeing forums created by specific engines...
the Rybka forum as an example
we see nothing about this there..not one word..even after days of discussion and literally 100's of posts
and this is to be expected

This topic is being discussed in the Rybka forum. Your comments are totally inaccurate and reflect your own bias.

i did not realize it was being discussed in the Flip Side forum because i did not think to look there
i stand corrected on that one small part of my post
The Flip side is considered a CTF type of forum and i thought to look in the main forum which personally i think is where a discussion about this properly belongs
i have no bias what so ever
i am the owner of Rybka 2.2 and have paid for two licenses for it at 75 Euro per licence
i was happy when Rybka was offered for the Revelation and Resurrection II dedicated computers
i personally was the major financial sponser of the Rybka-GM Benjamin Draw odds match
i have posted photos of one of Rybka first matches against a GM in Chile on my web site(GM Morovic):



my post simply was meant to express my opinion that THIS forum is certainly independent of any particular engine and the discussion of evidence and its analysis should continue and is certainly On Topic here

Best Regards
Steve

Your statement that :

"we see nothing about this there..not one word..even after days of discussion and literally 100's of posts and this is to be expected "

is a clear reflection of bias.

[Steve B]

is a clear reflection of bias.

no its a clear reflection of economic reality
one does not expect this sort of probing discussion to take place at the commercial home site of the engine in question.
i would imagine that no home of any commercial engine site would have a disuccusion like we are seeing here now

i have stated already that i have no built in bias and i have given you examples of how i have actually backed Rybka in the past
you seem to be attacking me because i am honestly reading this thread and starting to question things based upon the posts of respected members of the Computer chess community
Icons in their field

again i state i have no bias what so ever

Steve

[bnemias]

Well, Rolf has been using this style of language now since 1995. He's an old papal edifice of computer chess forums and he does, certainly in this case, provide an important balance of argument. Rolf uses a kind-of psycho-intuition on topics, sometimes he gets it right and sometimes wrong - the language is a kind-of provocative probe into the viewpoints of the other side which sometimes bears fruit, sometimes not. There is a fine line of course between provocative probing and mud-slinging and moderators have the unenviable task of trying to distinguish between the two, not helped by differences in general opinion of the moderators themselves. Or you could see it all as part of life's rich tapestry, maybe?

What are you suggesting actually? His posts are edited? Deleted? Or? I mean gimme some advice here ;-)

How about warnings, followed by strikes, followed by sanctions for continued abuse? In his case, all he does is spew OT gibberish. There's no need to edit his posts, or delete them. That makes it impossible to illustrate to him and everyone else what the problem is.

Threads that go haywire can be locked. Again, why censor? Just lock the thread after replying to it with information about why it was locked. It will die quickly. If someone reopens the mess, you can issue sanctions.

I'd say censor by editing a post, and only in specific circumstances:
1) bad words. replace them with [*edited for content -mod]
2) gratuitous advertising. again, replace with [*removed advertising -mod]

Not much else should be censored. If something is against the charter, just point it out, and give warnings. But leave it intact, otherwise nobody ever has a clue what the problem is, and it will happen over and over. Again, you can always lock a thread that goes out of control.

[GenoM]

How about warnings, followed by strikes, followed by sanctions for continued abuse? In his case, all he does is spew OT gibberish. There's no need to edit his posts, or delete them. That makes it impossible to illustrate to him and everyone else what the problem is.

Threads that go haywire can be locked. Again, why censor? Just lock the thread after replying to it with information about why it was locked. It will die quickly. If someone reopens the mess, you can issue sanctions.

I'd say censor by editing a post, and only in specific circumstances:
1) bad words. replace them with [*edited for content -mod]
2) gratuitous advertising. again, replace with [*removed advertising -mod]

Not much else should be censored. If something is against the charter, just point it out, and give warnings. But leave it intact, otherwise nobody ever has a clue what the problem is, and it will happen over and over. Again, you can always lock a thread that goes out of control.

Fully agree!

[bob]

I think that the discussions to this point would pose no problem for me as a moderator, I would leave them untouched. Perhaps here and there someone might get a bit insulting, although I don't recall such. But "the quest for truth" ought to outweigh "the fear of false accusations". Yes, blatant false claims need to be dealt with. But there is quite a bit of evidence here that should be discussed since more is being presented each day.

I was not particularly interested, and still am not, other than to correct some false information about detecting copied code. Faculty members deal with this on a regular basis and the issues are not exactly new.

Either new information will continue to come from the discussion, or it will die of its own accord...

[Zach Wegner]

This topic is being discussed in the Rybka forum. Your comments are totally inaccurate and reflect your own bias.

This is true, but a thread that came up yesterday: http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... l?tid=6644

was severely pruned today. There was IMO nothing wrong with the thread, just the same type of discussion going on here. And the original poster still has not answered my question "why?"...