Ancalagon engine ?

[Golem]

Hi Tord, Eelco,

What is the Ancalagon project ? Is it a "code name" for the beta version of glaurung ?
What is his strength (in comparison with glaurung 2.1) ? Will it play a different style ?

[Tony Thomas]

Quote from Elco...

My handle on Playchess is Ancalagon and as you maybe guess, that is more about dragons than about Fruit! But Ancalagon is not ready yet and I'm not quite sure yet when it will be, and whether a separate release would be acceptable. But work on this Glaurung version will certainly continue! At least until Rybka 3, trying to keep Ancalagon 2.1 within 200 points distance of Rybka 3 is the goal for the moment! Wimbledon and football and everything else will just have to wait!

[Tord Romstad]

Hi Tord, Eelco,

What is the Ancalagon project ? Is it a "code name" for the beta version of glaurung ?

Hello Gontran,

I don't use code names. Development versions of Glaurung are named "Glaurung YYMMDD", where YYMMDD is the date is was built. Official versions are usually called "Glaurung x.y", where x and y are the major and minor version number. It is possible that the next version will be called "Glaurung Lodz 2008", though.

I don't know more than you about Ancalagon, but if I understand correctly it is Eelco's name for his own experimental Glaurung version, built on Glaurung 2.1 or some earlier unreleased development version.

What is his strength (in comparison with glaurung 2.1) ? Will it play a different style ?

I have no idea, but perhaps Eelco can tell us.

Tord

[beachknight]

I was just lucky against Ancalagon in my ever first
playchess engine game.

Code: Select all

[Event "Rated game, 5m + 5s"]
[Site "Engine Room"]
[Date "2008.05.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Drtaner07, Fritz 11"]
[Black "Ancalagon, Toga II 1.4 beta5c"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C11"]
[BlackElo "2340"]
[Annotator "0.37;-0.06"]
[PlyCount "153"]
[EventDate "2008.05.13"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]

{Toga II 1.4 beta5c: 12.4 ply; 581kN/s AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
2009MHz, (1 threads), F12new.ctg, 64 MB} 1. e4 {B/0 0} e6 {(c5) B/0 0} 2. d4 {
B/0 0} d5 {B/0 0} 3. Nc3 {B/0 0} Nf6 {B/0 0} 4. e5 {B/0 0} Nfd7 {B/0 0} 5. f4 {
B/0 0} c5 {(g6) B/0 0} 6. Nf3 {B/0 0} Nc6 {B/0 0} 7. Be3 {B/0 0} Qb6 {
(a6) B/0 0} 8. Na4 {B/0 0} Qa5+ {B/0 0} 9. Nc3 {B/0 0} Qb6 {B/0 0} 10. Be2 {
0.37/15 21} cxd4 {B/0 0} 11. Nxd4 {B/0 0} Bc5 {B/0 0} 12. Na4 {B/0 0} Qa5+ {
B/0 0} 13. c3 {B/0 0} Nxd4 {B/0 0} 14. Bxd4 {B/0 0} Bxd4 {B/0 0} 15. Qxd4 {
B/0 0} O-O {(b6) B/0 0} 16. O-O {B/0 0} b6 {B/0 0} 17. Bd1 {B/0 0} Bb7 {
(Ba6) -0.06/13 28} 18. Bc2 {-0.04/15 19} Bc6 {(Rac8) -0.06/13 7} 19. Qd3 {
-0.01/15 37} f5 {(g6) -0.30/15 0} 20. b4 {(exf6) 0.04/17 13} Qb5 {-0.32/12 6}
21. Qd4 {(Pb2) 0.07/17 13} Qa6 {(a5) -0.37/14 20} 22. Nb2 {0.12/16 13} Qa3 {
-0.42/14 6} 23. Nd3 {0.04/17 26} Bb5 {-0.43/14 0} 24. Bb3 {0.01/16 12} Rad8 {
(Rfd8) -0.33/13 17} 25. Rf3 {(Tf2) 0.08/16 26} Rfe8 {(Nb8) -0.35/12 16} 26. Ne1
{(Te1) 0.34/15 13} Be2 {(Bc4) 0.16/13 32} 27. Nc2 {(Tf2) 0.50/18 20} Qa6 {
0.24/15 18} 28. Rg3 {(Tf2) 0.50/17 0} Kh8 {(Bc4) 0.24/12 15} 29. a4 {
(Df2) 0.99/15 15} Nf8 {(Bc4) 0.50/12 35} 30. Na3 {(Df2) 1.06/16 16} Qc8 {
0.39/12 12} 31. Qe3 {(Df2) 1.00/16 1} Ba6 {0.59/13 16} 32. Bd1 {(Th3) 1.05/16 0
} Re7 {(Nd7) 0.30/12 15} 33. Nc2 {1.12/17 14} Qc4 {(Bc4) 0.55/13 0} 34. Qf2 {
1.17/17 15} Qc7 {0.40/13 0} 35. Nd4 {1.12/17 22} Bc4 {0.74/13 0} 36. Rh3 {
(a5) 1.11/15 8} a5 {(Kg8) 0.64/12 16} 37. b5 {(Dh4) 1.04/14 9} Rde8 {
(Rc8) 0.42/12 16} 38. Nc6 {(Dh4) 1.10/17 9} Rf7 {0.68/14 14} 39. Be2 {1.13/18 0
} Bxe2 {0.71/13 10} 40. Qxe2 {1.00/18 0} g6 {(Kg8) 0.76/14 13} 41. c4 {
1.42/17 14} dxc4 {0.87/13 0} 42. Rc3 {1.37/17 10} Rg7 {(Rd7) 0.79/13 3} 43.
Rxc4 {1.71/15 4} Qf7 {(Qb7) 0.83/13 8} 44. Qe3 {(Td1) 1.83/15 12} Nd7 {
0.56/13 14} 45. Rd1 {(Tac1) 1.43/16 17} Nc5 {(Reg8) 0.47/12 12} 46. Nxa5 {
(Tcd4) 1.17/16 30} g5 {0.24/13 13} 47. fxg5 {1.33/16 0} Qh5 {0.19/13 13} 48.
Rdd4 {(Df3) 1.22/16 0} Rxg5 {0.12/12 12} 49. Nc6 {0.96/16 0} Ne4 {
(Reg8) 0.20/12 11} 50. Rc2 {1.41/14 9} Rg7 {0.05/12 2} 51. a5 {(Td3) 1.16/15 14
} bxa5 {0.00/11 12} 52. b6 {(Pxa5) 0.75/15 0} Rb7 {(Reg8) 0.30/12 14} 53. Rb2 {
(Td3) 1.67/14 7} a4 {0.19/11 9} 54. Rb1 {(Pa5) 1.69/15 4} a3 {(Rc8) 0.00/11 11}
55. Qxa3 {1.01/15 11} Qg5 {(Rg7) 0.72/12 4} 56. g3 {1.67/14 10} Nd2 {
(Rg8) 0.73/12 7} 57. Rbb4 {(Tb5) 1.88/14 10} Ne4 {0.63/12 12} 58. Rd3 {
(Kg2) 1.86/14 0} Qh5 {(h5) 0.73/11 11} 59. Qb2 {2.07/14 9} Nc5 {0.95/12 0} 60.
Rd6 {(Tdd4) 2.21/14 10} Ne4 {0.84/12 11} 61. Kg2 {(Pd8) 2.16/14 0} Ng5 {
(Rc8) 0.92/10 7} 62. Rd3 {(Df2) 2.29/14 8} Rc8 {0.96/11 12} 63. Na5 {1.69/15 0}
Qe8 {(Rd7) 1.79/11 15} 64. Rc3 {(Pxb7) 3.50/14 6} Rxc3 {1.87/11 7} 65. Qxc3 {
3.90/16 0} Qa8 {3.14/12 47} 66. Nxb7 {4.16/17 0} Qxb7+ {3.14/12 7} 67. Kf2 {
4.47/16 2} Nh3+ {(Kg8) 3.17/10 3} 68. Ke3 {5.37/16 13} Ng5 {3.69/12 0} 69. h4 {
5.64/16 7} Qf3+ {3.47/11 0} 70. Kd2 {5.65/17 8} Qg2+ {5.95/12 46} 71. Kc1 {
6.71/18 0} Ne4 {5.98/11 5} 72. Rxe4 {(b7) 7.45/17 0} fxe4 {(Qg1+) 3.63/9 7} 73.
Qc8+ {9.19/15 1} Kg7 {3.92/10 0} 74. b7 {(Dd7+) 9.19/15 0} Qf1+ {8.26/11 6} 75.
Kb2 {9.53/16 0} Qb5+ {(Qe2+) 8.36/10 6} 76. Kc3 {10.12/15 2} Qa5+ {8.36/11 4}
77. Kc4 {
Ancalagon,Toga II 1.4 beta5c geeft op  (Lag: Av=0.26s, max=0.9s) 10.14/16 0}
1-0

Sorry, Eelco. Could not resist anymore.

Best,

[Eelco de Groot]

Hi Tord, Eelco,

What is the Ancalagon project ? Is it a "code name" for the beta version of glaurung ?
What is his strength (in comparison with glaurung 2.1) ? Will it play a different style ?

Not much is known about Ancalagon. In Frodo and Sam's Red book of Westmark he is only mentioned once in part I, in The Shadow of the Past, when Gandalf is explaining to Frodo that he could not have not hurt the ring by throwing it in the fire of his homely little hearth even if he could have persuaded himself to do it;

Your small fire of course, would not melt even ordinary gold. This ring has already passed through it unscathed, and even unheated. But there is no smith's forge in this Shire that could change it at all. Not even the anvils and furnaces of the dwarves could do that. It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the fire is hot enough, nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.

The style of play? That is really a difficult question. I am not sure if such a thing could be fully designed, more probably - I hope - it takes on some shape by itself and it is best to the try to develop this then further. But I sure would like to make a program that can play something approaching strategic looking moves, like Rybka can sometimes make moves with its Queen or with a Knight that look like a prophylactically thinking Tigran Petrosian could have thought them up, and not some string of ones and zeroes. How Vasik does that I do not know.

It sure was a surprise to learn from Jeroen Noomen that Rybka's programmer in real life is a very attacking player! I think that it could be a bit like what they said about famous Dutch world champion Max Euwe, on the board he seemed much more adventurous than in his daily life, maybe as a sort of compensation? Euwe was interested in chess programming, but would his own program, if he had made one, play like himself or would he approach it more as a scientific, mathematical project? In that case I think Euwe's program could have played a bit like Rybka, like Euwe as the mathematician more than like Euwe as a chessplayer..

Another thing that would really be good to have is a program that could play well in a lot of different openings, and in that case I think you could like to emulate Euwe again, as an early pioneer of opening theory, although Euwe himself said that his knowledge of the opening paled in comparison to that of Alekhine. Of modern players you could say something like this of Invanchuk, or Timman in his best form also had the broadest possible repertoire so it was and is not easy to prepare something against them. But I'm not sure this is very much related to style and for sure it is not something easy to program

The latest rumour is that Rybka is still at least a month away by word of Larry Kaufman and it does not yet seem to be coming closer, much to the frustration of some hardcore Rybka fanatics in their forum... I'm guessing Rybka 3 then to be around 3228 in the CCRL lists, an astronomical number indeed if Vasik and Larry could achieve it. But about Ancalagon, I have no real idea if 3028 is realistic.

Regards, Eelco

[Eelco de Groot]

Hello Harun,

I thought that could have been you! But Toga won the second game I believe! The openings seem very important on the server, it seems almost impossible to have a waterproof repertoire, I don't think that would be my forte, maybe with a faster computer to act as a second, like Cheparinov is for Topalov etc. The faster computer would also help with playing some better moves

Best, Eelco

[beachknight]

yes! my ever second engine game below:

I think 16. ... d5 was a mistake in my new book.
16. ... fxg5 was much better in my opinion. But
engines do not respect our opinions, just follow
book moves.

Best,

Code: Select all

[Event "Rated game, 5m + 5s"]
[Site "Engine Room"]
[Date "2008.05.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Ancalagon, Toga II 1.4 beta5c"]
[Black "Drtaner07, Fritz 11"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B90"]
[WhiteElo "2326"]
[Annotator "0.20;0.16"]
[PlyCount "103"]
[EventDate "2008.05.13"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]

{Toga II 1.4 beta5c: 12.4 ply; 608kN/s AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+
2009MHz, (1 threads), F12new.ctg, 64 MB} 1. e4 {0.20/13 45} c5 {(e5) B/0 0} 2.
Nf3 {B/0 0} d6 {B/0 0} 3. d4 {B/0 0} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {B/0 0} Nf6 {B/0 0}
5. Nc3 {B/0 0} a6 {B/0 0} 6. f3 {(Bg5) B/0 0} e5 {B/0 0} 7. Nb3 {B/0 0} Be6 {
B/0 0} 8. Be3 {B/0 0} Be7 {B/0 0} 9. Qd2 {B/0 0} O-O {B/0 0} 10. O-O-O {B/0 0}
b5 {B/0 0} 11. g4 {B/0 0} Nbd7 {0.16/17 51} 12. g5 {B/0 0} b4 {B/0 0} 13. Ne2 {
B/0 0} Ne8 {B/0 0} 14. f4 {B/0 0} f6 {B/0 0} 15. f5 {0.47/11 17} Bf7 {
(Lxb3) 0.52/16 0} 16. Qxb4 {(g6) 0.21/11 12} d5 {0.07/15 27} (16... fxg5 17.
Qa5 Qxa5 18. Nxa5 Bh5 19. Rg1 Bf3 20. Nc3 Bxd1 21. Bc4+ Kh8 22. Rxd1 Nef6 23.
Bxg5 Rfc8 24. Be2 Kg8 25. Nc4 Rc6 26. b3 Rb8) 17. Qa4 {0.19/13 0} Nd6 {
(fxg5) 0.01/15 25} 18. Na5 {(exd5) 0.30/12 25} Nb6 {(Pxe4) 0.08/15 13} 19. Bxb6
{-0.03/12 15} Qxb6 {0.04/15 0} 20. Nc6 {-0.03/12 17} Rae8 {(Ld8) 0.39/16 48}
21. Ng3 {(exd5) 0.21/10 13} Bd8 {(fxg5) 0.56/14 28} 22. c3 {(Qxa6) 0.47/11 60}
Qe3+ {0.59/14 10} 23. Kb1 {0.67/11 1} Nxe4 {(Dxg5) 0.38/15 10} 24. Nxe4 {
0.24/11 18} Qxe4+ {0.21/16 0} 25. Qxe4 {0.29/12 10} dxe4 {0.29/17 0} 26. Bxa6 {
(gxf6) 0.29/13 13} fxg5 {0.13/15 13} 27. Rhe1 {(Rd7) 0.29/13 0} g6 {0.23/15 12}
28. fxg6 {(Bc8) 0.44/12 5} Bxg6 {0.24/16 14} 29. Nxd8 {(Bc4+) 0.51/12 2} Rxd8 {
0.37/17 6} 30. Rxd8 {0.69/13 7} Rxd8 {0.47/18 0} 31. Kc1 {0.73/13 15} Kf7 {
0.58/18 0} 32. a4 {(Bb7) 0.90/12 14} Ra8 {0.58/18 25} 33. Bb5 {1.17/14 0} Ke7 {
0.60/18 12} 34. b4 {(Bc6) 1.12/13 1} Rf8 {(Tc8) 0.65/17 11} 35. a5 {1.27/12 8}
Rf3 {0.76/17 17} 36. Kd2 {(Kb2) 1.49/13 0} Rh3 {0.74/18 13} 37. a6 {1.55/12 0}
Rxh2+ {1.02/17 12} 38. Be2 {2.01/13 0} Be8 {1.94/17 24} 39. c4 {2.06/11 0} Kd6
{(e3+) 1.39/15 12} 40. a7 {2.13/12 14} e3+ {1.78/17 0} 41. Kd3 {2.22/12 13} Bc6
{1.78/17 0} 42. Ra1 {2.28/12 12} Ba8 {1.98/17 2} 43. c5+ {2.46/11 8} Kc7 {
2.05/17 7} 44. b5 {2.61/11 6} Rf2 {(Th4) 2.56/16 8} 45. Kxe3 {3.52/12 14} Rf4 {
2.99/18 0} 46. Ra6 {(b6+) 3.66/12 8} Re4+ {3.77/15 15} 47. Kd2 {3.66/14 0} Rd4+
{4.37/16 14} 48. Kc3 {4.17/13 0} Rd5 {(Te4) 5.79/17 26} 49. b6+ {5.61/14 19}
Kb7 {8.39/19 0} 50. Ra5 {5.73/15 146} Rxc5+ {14.91/21 0} 51. Rxc5 {5.68/11 1}
e4 {(Kxb6) 15.65/17 5} 52. Rb5 {(Rc8) Drtaner07,Fritz 11 resigns 8.44/9 4} 1-0

[Tord Romstad]

Hi Tord, Eelco,

What is the Ancalagon project ? Is it a "code name" for the beta version of glaurung ?
What is his strength (in comparison with glaurung 2.1) ? Will it play a different style ?

Not much is known about Ancalagon. In Frodo and Sam's Red book of Westmark he is only mentioned once in part I, in The Shadow of the Past, when Gandalf is explaining to Frodo that he could not have not hurt the ring by throwing it in the fire of his homely little hearth even if he could have persuaded himself to do it;

Your small fire of course, would not melt even ordinary gold. This ring has already passed through it unscathed, and even unheated. But there is no smith's forge in this Shire that could change it at all. Not even the anvils and furnaces of the dwarves could do that. It has been said dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the fire is hot enough, nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself.

That's not quite all we know! From "Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath" in the Silmarillion:

But Eärendil came, shining with white flame, and about Vingilot were gathered all the great birds of heaven and Thorondor was their captain, and there was battle in the air all the day and through a dark night of doubt. Before the rising of the sun Eärendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin. Then the sun rose, and the host of the Valar prevailed, and well-nigh all the dragons were destroyed; and all the pits of Morgoth were broken and unroofed, and the might of the Valar descended into the deeps of the earth.

Tord