compiler dependent scores!

[David Dahlem]

MSVC 6 is 10 years old though, and based on pre-standard C++ specifications. It's probably not the safest way to test code compliance.

I'm using Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition. I like it and it's free!! It available for download here ...

http://www.microsoft.com/express/vc/

Regards
Dave

[wgarvin]

I tried to install Visual Studio Express Edition 2008 on my laptop, but I couldn't figure out how to get past the stupid registration stuff without an internet connection. Eventually I gave up. I hate having my time wasted. I'm no longer willing to use Microsoft development tools, even free ones, except when I'm at work.

[Bo Persson]

Ok, anscheinend geht's nicht in C.

gcc -c test.c

test.c:14: error: 'for' loop initial declaration used outside C99 mode

May be, but msvc6 was explicitly C++, obviously not C++ standard.

To its defence: VC6 implements the rules from an early draft of the standard. The rules were then changed before standardization.

There is a switch to enable the correct loop scoping, which unfortunately breaks the non-conforming windows.h header. Not very useful.


Using a 10 year old compiler is not the best idea.

[abik]

Even though I no longer work as compiler engineer at Intel, I still have some primitive means of debugging the Intel compiler.... This indeed seems a bug (in induction variable optimization to be precise). I have emailed my old buddies at Intel to confirm and fix this.
And, yes, people claiming that one should not have to rewrite their code to avoid compiler bugs are absolutely right.

Hope this helps.

Aart Bik
http://www.aartbik.com/

[rreagan]

I tried to install Visual Studio Express Edition 2008 on my laptop, but I couldn't figure out how to get past the stupid registration stuff without an internet connection. Eventually I gave up. I hate having my time wasted.

From the Registration FAQ:
http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/regfaq/

7. I want to download and install an Express Edition on a computer that does not have Internet access. What can I do?

If you need to install and use an Express Edition on a computer that is not connected to the Internet, you will need to create an installation DVD using the DVD ISO file that is available on the Express site. The installation DVD you create will then allow you to install an Express Edition on a computer that is not connected to the Internet, and that Express Edition will not require registration key for continued usage.

To create an installation DVD for Visual Studio Express Edition, please see the Offline Installation Instructions on the Express site.

I'm no longer willing to use Microsoft development tools, even free ones

Sounds like you feel pretty strongly about this.

...except when I'm at work.

Well, not too strongly I guess

[wgarvin]

I tried to install Visual Studio Express Edition 2008 on my laptop, but I couldn't figure out how to get past the stupid registration stuff without an internet connection. Eventually I gave up. I hate having my time wasted.

From the Registration FAQ:
http://www.microsoft.com/express/support/regfaq/

7. I want to download and install an Express Edition on a computer that does not have Internet access. What can I do?

If you need to install and use an Express Edition on a computer that is not connected to the Internet, you will need to create an installation DVD using the DVD ISO file that is available on the Express site. The installation DVD you create will then allow you to install an Express Edition on a computer that is not connected to the Internet, and that Express Edition will not require registration key for continued usage.

To create an installation DVD for Visual Studio Express Edition, please see the Offline Installation Instructions on the Express site.

Burn a DVD from an ISO? Just to install a compiler and IDE? How can you not recognize that as ridiculous? Even people with internet connections have to jump through (minor) hoops to get registered; click some button on Microsoft's nasty website, fill in their e-mail address or whatever, wait for the e-mail to arrive, and paste the text from the e-mail into the installation. Which I might have been willing to do, if there was any way for my laptop to get to that nasty website in the first place. But downloading an entire ISO and burning a DVD? That's just ridiculous. Why can't I download a single multi-hundred-megabyte setup.exe and just install it without all the stupid registration stuff? I mean, if the tool is "free", then maybe Microsoft should let go of the stupid registration stuff. Of course it's not really "free", its "free with some strings attached". Their insistence on collecting the info and tracking all the people who install this thing, has ended up making it too difficult for me to install. Hell with that, I can't be bothered then.

I'm no longer willing to use Microsoft development tools, even free ones

Sounds like you feel pretty strongly about this.

Only because I wasted several hours of my life trying to work around Microsoft's asinine restrictions. I'll never get that time back, and yes I'm bitter about it.

...except when I'm at work.

Well, not too strongly I guess

At work I don't have a choice about what to use, and besides, its already installed for me!

That's the irony here---For my job, I already use Microsoft tools to write software that runs on Microsoft platforms (PCs and Xbox360s). Microsoft might benefit somehow from people registering the free editions of their tools, but (like DRM) it doesn't benefit *me* in any way, it just gets in my way. As a result I'd rather use some other freely available tool instead.

Even though I no longer work as compiler engineer at Intel, I still have some primitive means of debugging the Intel compiler.... This indeed seems a bug (in induction variable optimization to be precise). I have emailed my old buddies at Intel to confirm and fix this.
And, yes, people claiming that one should not have to rewrite their code to avoid compiler bugs are absolutely right.

Hope this helps.

Aart Bik
http://www.aartbik.com/

Thanks for taking the time to confirm the compiler bug, and for informing the guys who have the power to fix it.

[Alessandro Scotti]

Burn a DVD from an ISO? Just to install a compiler and IDE? How can you not recognize that as ridiculous?

I don't know what's ridiculous about that. Just out of curiosity I connected to Microsoft site and they explicitly mention three different programs that will allow you to mount the ISO as a virtual drive.
But of course a blank DVD is only about $0.40 and can be burned in a few minutes, hardly an irreparable loss of time or money.
Whatever, you get the best compiler for Windows, with no need for registration and no need for money. Is that so ridiculous?!?

[wgarvin]

Burn a DVD from an ISO? Just to install a compiler and IDE? How can you not recognize that as ridiculous?

I don't know what's ridiculous about that. Just out of curiosity I connected to Microsoft site and they explicitly mention three different programs that will allow you to mount the ISO as a virtual drive.
But of course a blank DVD is only about $0.40 and can be burned in a few minutes, hardly an irreparable loss of time or money.
Whatever, you get the best compiler for Windows, with no need for registration and no need for money. Is that so ridiculous?!?

Yes, it's ridiculous. Why should I need to use a DVD burner to install a piece of "free" software downloaded over the internet? I just can't view that as anything but ridiculous.

Maybe it needs to be an ISO because it includes hundreds of megabytes of "Enterprise" features? I don't care about those. I just want the debugger and the compiler, and maybe the platform SDK (which I don't mind downloading separately). If MS wants to get more people hooked on using their compiler and IDE, the way to do it is very simple: just make it easier to install. Having a way to install without needing an internet connection and jumping through the registration hoops is good, but if it requires you to jump through other hoops (have a working DVD burner around, and burn the ISO to a DVD) then what's the point?

[jswaff]

Burn a DVD from an ISO? Just to install a compiler and IDE? How can you not recognize that as ridiculous?

I don't know what's ridiculous about that. Just out of curiosity I connected to Microsoft site and they explicitly mention three different programs that will allow you to mount the ISO as a virtual drive.
But of course a blank DVD is only about $0.40 and can be burned in a few minutes, hardly an irreparable loss of time or money.
Whatever, you get the best compiler for Windows, with no need for registration and no need for money. Is that so ridiculous?!?

Yes, it's ridiculous. Why should I need to use a DVD burner to install a piece of "free" software downloaded over the internet? I just can't view that as anything but ridiculous.

Maybe it needs to be an ISO because it includes hundreds of megabytes of "Enterprise" features? I don't care about those. I just want the debugger and the compiler, and maybe the platform SDK (which I don't mind downloading separately). If MS wants to get more people hooked on using their compiler and IDE, the way to do it is very simple: just make it easier to install. Having a way to install without needing an internet connection and jumping through the registration hoops is good, but if it requires you to jump through other hoops (have a working DVD burner around, and burn the ISO to a DVD) then what's the point?

I mostly agree with you. I'm a free software guy myself. One minor point - you shouldn't need to burn the ISO. In Linux you could do something like:

mount -o loop someiso.iso /mnt/iso

Surely there's a way to do something like that in Windows...

--
James

[Dann Corbit]

Burn a DVD from an ISO? Just to install a compiler and IDE? How can you not recognize that as ridiculous?

I don't know what's ridiculous about that. Just out of curiosity I connected to Microsoft site and they explicitly mention three different programs that will allow you to mount the ISO as a virtual drive.
But of course a blank DVD is only about $0.40 and can be burned in a few minutes, hardly an irreparable loss of time or money.
Whatever, you get the best compiler for Windows, with no need for registration and no need for money. Is that so ridiculous?!?

Yes, it's ridiculous. Why should I need to use a DVD burner to install a piece of "free" software downloaded over the internet? I just can't view that as anything but ridiculous.

Maybe it needs to be an ISO because it includes hundreds of megabytes of "Enterprise" features? I don't care about those. I just want the debugger and the compiler, and maybe the platform SDK (which I don't mind downloading separately). If MS wants to get more people hooked on using their compiler and IDE, the way to do it is very simple: just make it easier to install. Having a way to install without needing an internet connection and jumping through the registration hoops is good, but if it requires you to jump through other hoops (have a working DVD burner around, and burn the ISO to a DVD) then what's the point?

I mostly agree with you. I'm a free software guy myself. One minor point - you shouldn't need to burn the ISO. In Linux you could do something like:

mount -o loop someiso.iso /mnt/iso

Surely there's a way to do something like that in Windows...

--
James

Go here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/916902

Click on the link that says:
Download the Microsoft Virtual CD-ROM Control Panel package now. (http://download.microsoft.com/download/ ... nel_21.exe)