For that thread, I get the following:
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The list » An engine room » Fishing
*1 16/03/2007 08:35:07
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 FishingI wish to address to those writers of chess cursors who has dropped out in a deposit because of the Small fish.
At someone, probably, hands - a pier have lowered(omitted), with the Small fish to not catch up any more.
Others began to search for the new approaches based(founded,established) on "knowledge", instead of on stupid(blunt) search.
Pier, the Small fish so strongly plays because of any special "knowledge", and without everyone
Search sees that other programs see only after search.
Friends, do not search for what is not present in the nature.
At least, in the Small fish it(this) precisely is not present anything.
I was not too lazy, have taken the very first and most simple Small fish 1.0 beta 32 bit
And dizassembliroval it(her), and then also has copied from the assembler on normal Si.
Certainly, I am not going to open all secrets, and that Vasik can take offence-
What for to offend the good person. But from desire to save up your nervous cells(cages)
I shall tell pair words.
No "knowledge" in the Small fish is present. And in general - anything superoriginal.
The same stupid(blunt) search, and very much shustryj - on Pentium 2.66 GGz true
Speed (instead of that which shows us Vasik) - something about one million
Units of a tree a second. Plus simple, but well balanced estimation of a position.
Many factors are considered, but works quickly.
So to catch up with the Small fish it is possible. Two simple recipes from fish cookery:
1. Optimize speed of search is solves all.
Bitbordy - here that will help(assist) you. But only do not write off(copy) with Crafty-
There realization of bit operations very bad. Vasik in this question has left far forward.
2. Work above an estimation of a position - it(she) should be simple, but harmonious.
Here business of a case - will turn out or not, but probably to you will carry,
And you will add what at anybody is not present. And for the beginning - Fruit, function eval.
At Vasika from fruit it is possible to count differences on fingers.
The same conclusions confirms and Fritz. Once I have done with it(him) the same surgical
Operation - was made with a source code on Si. And the same result - all to please speeds.
And an estimation of positions such, that it is difficult to think up easier, but weights are picked up with taste.
And you would see the generator of courses Fritza is easier song.
generitsya always exactly one course which without any estimation at once is started up in search.
And if happens otsechka on an alpha-бета following courses and generit it is not necessary-
Again the same economy in speed.
By the way, that F.Morsh would tell, having seen source codes of the Fritza on Si - it(he)
Wrote it(him) on the assembler. And the assembler has given it(him) an increase in speed approximately time
In an one and a half (in comparison with "my" ß¿-version).
It is inactive
*2 16/03/2007 08:57:51
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingYes... Some(a little bit) person understood a code of the Small fish. If you it(him) have completely led to a readable code on Si - That you the genius.
Force of the Small fish in tables, patterns. Which in it(her) a great lot.
There is Si a version? Change it(her) a little, and as that proof that it(she) at you to eat give otkompilirovannyj a variant. For example change cost of the Queen, and only it(him).
Somehow it is a little dastalo to listen to full delirium...
It is inactive
*3 16/03/2007 09:01:05
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingAfftar zhzhot
It is inactive
*4 16/03/2007 10:30:10
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 Re: FishingIn occasion of ostensibly "patterns" in the Small fish - they are not present!
I shall open a small secret:
If remember, at fruit for an estimation of a position two хэш-tables are used,
Under which memory is dynamically distributed(allocated): the table pawn
Structures and the table of a material. During search these tables are filled
Estimations and different tags, and access to the necessary record
It is carried out by means of хэш-codes pawn_key and material_key (see functions
pawn_get_info And material_get_info).
And so, at the Small fish the хэш-table of pawn structure too is used,
Almost in the same way, as at fruit. And here the table of a material is counted once
For all cases of a life, and the result is combined(complex,difficult) in the table of constants in the size 2 Mb.
In any position have counted the sum of all figures, on the received number have climbed
In this table also have taken in it(her) a makeweight to an estimation and a field of tags for some
Additional checks and calculation of value Phase (a stage of a party(set)).
If it to name patterns why Faben them so has not named?
And Vasiku it was necessary all for the same - for economy of time, though economy
Here and cheap.
It is inactive
*5 16/03/2007 10:34:55
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingAnd what tables of a material on 2 Mb at Fruit?
The deeper you go into something, the bigger the problem get
Fabien so has not named, because in Fruit there are no tables of patterns.
By that that you confuse KHesh Tables and patterns - with understanding at you absolutely all is good...
It is inactive
*6 16/03/2007 11:16:54
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingNot. Here he's fine. In vain you carp. Something such can be in Fruit.
It is inactive
*7 16/03/2007 11:18:12
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingIt about new Fruit?
It is inactive
*8 16/03/2007 11:19:31
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 Re: FishingOnce again for absolutely dull:
At Fruit the table of a material is a хэш-table, and access to it(her) - on a хэш-code
board-> material_key.
In the Small fish analogue of the table of a material - the file of constants stored(kept) the program,
And access to it(her) - not on a хэш-code, and on total number of figures on a board,
Which is calculated absolutely in another way, rather than a хэш-code.
In total different cases of presence of a material at Vasika 256*1024.
At myself I have declared(announced) it so:
struct material_t Material [256*1024] = {
{0x0400000, 0}, {0x0350000,-1482} ....};
Everyone entry this table contains only two fields:
unsigned int flags (4 bajta) and int value (too 4 bajta) - the sense should be clear.
Total we receive: 256*1024*8 = 2 Mb.
And this table by function - analogue material_comp_info from Fruit is received,
Which has worked once, all has counted and has combined in a ready heap for the use.
So all is very simple - and without any patterns.
It is inactive
*9 16/03/2007 11:35:38
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingOnce again - you confuse patterns and khesh the table in which the kept estimations of concrete positions met in search are stored(kept).
This Table cannot be preliminary calculated.
It is inactive
*10 16/03/2007 11:38:03
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingRybkin
If all so was, the Small fish would consider(count) this table during initialization. Any reasons to store(keep) this nonsense in an executed file.
It is inactive
*11 16/03/2007 11:39:17
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingNS
Here there is no speech about the хеш-table of rearrangements. Here another.
It is inactive
*12 16/03/2007 11:40:58
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: Fishingboard-> material_key.
Same Zobrist positions! I at all do not understand that it(he) wishes to tell. What Vasik stores(keeps)? What has it(he) counted? Concrete estimations for some positions? Fixed mittelshpilnyj samoobuch?
It is inactive
*13 16/03/2007 11:43:38
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingAnd what here? The Counted two-three-figured combinations? If yes, it is patterns. Fruit considers(counts) them hurriedly? I do not trust. Full delirium.
If board-> material_key it Zobrist positions - that
It is the table of rearrangements. If is not present - That what is it?
Analogue of pawn structures? What analogue? Two-three-figured combinations?
Have again returned to the same. Patterns, and Fruit them considers(counts) "hurriedly"?
It is edited NS (16/03/2007 11:45:00)
It is inactive
*14 16/03/2007 11:44:21
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingRybkin has written:
generitsya always exactly one course which without any estimation at once is started up in search.
Try(Taste) sformultrovat the idea once again. Otherwise you to not understand in any way.
It is inactive
*15 16/03/2007 11:46:29
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingTry(Taste) sformultrovat the idea once again. Otherwise you to not understand in any way.
And here is how it I have understood time. In the Internet in this occasion is. The generator does not give out the list of Courses, and gives out courses on one. While normal sortings was not is allowed to accelerate generation (we generate only up to a denying course)
Only at presence of sortings, and for bitboardov - it seems a full Utopia.
It is edited NS (16/03/2007 11:47:21)
It is inactive
*16 16/03/2007 12:01:11
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingI do not trust, that there are people who in it trust
Rybkin, really you such
It is inactive
*17 16/03/2007 12:20:14
bankuss
The participant
Whence: Yaroslavl
It is registered: 23/05/2006
Website Re: FishingSpeed speed... yunior on 5 million poses a second splashes and what? (on quad and that it is more)
Speed it not the most important.
It is inactive
*18 16/03/2007 12:28:37
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 Re: Fishing1. In occasion of generation of courses on one is only at Fritza. In the Small fish generyatsya lists.
2. In the Small fish in table Material (the size 2 Mb) stores(keeps) estimations ONLY for different cases
Total of a material on a board, and any relative positioning of figures and them
Interaction are not considered in any way. What for Vasik has tired out(has driven) this file of estimations in the program-
It is necessary to ask it(him). Perhaps, that all have solved, that it is notorious patterns,
Or somehow on special organized "knowledge". And that all have feverishly borrowed(occupied) in search
This knowledge. Very much I advise once again - do not search! There are no they there!
It is inactive
*19 16/03/2007 12:33:53
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: Fishing2. In the Small fish in table Material (the size 2 Mb) stores(keeps) estimations ONLY for different cases
Total of a material on a board, and any relative positioning of figures and them
Interaction are not considered in any way. What for Vasik has tired out(has driven) this file of estimations in the program-
It is necessary to ask it(him). Perhaps, that all have solved, that it is notorious patterns,
Or somehow on special organized "knowledge". And that all have feverishly borrowed(occupied) in search
This knowledge. Very much I advise once again - do not search! There are no they there!
Such tables is too patterns.
Can at Vasika and such Tables. Who knows it(him).
But it is necessary though a few(a little,little bit) more really to dream.
" Readable Si a code "
It is inactive
*20 16/03/2007 12:40:22
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingRybkin has written:
1. In occasion of generation of courses on one is only at Fritza.
It could be only at the very first Fritsev. And that is difficult for believing
It is inactive
*21 16/03/2007 12:41:29
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 Re: FishingAnd in general, this discussion, hardly having begun, has already started to tire.
It is really difficult to understand such simple things, as table Material.
If something is not clear - look source codes Fruit. They should be at all.
Particularly - a file material.c, in them - functions material_get_info and material_comp_info.
In the Small fish almost the same, only is already counted and lays in the program,
And according to function material_get_info and material_comp_info otstutstvuyut:
They have already made all work and are not necessary any more - can have a rest.
Well and I too go to have a rest - till Monday.
It is inactive
*22 16/03/2007 13:00:14
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingIn the very first post there is no sensible idea. About what here there can be a discussion?
It is inactive
*23 16/03/2007 13:55:26
The mechanic
The participant
It is registered: 16/03/2007 Re: FishingEarlier was such фильм:чтобы at scientists there was a stimulus to invent antigravitator, have specially made montazhfilm about ostensibly already invented device of antigravitation to one scientists(scientist) but which has blown up together with izobreteniem.eta an idea on an opportunity of its(his) creation (antigravitatora) so has urged forward scientists that they after a while have invented already nastoyashchij.ochen similar that our Rybkin pursues the same purpose.
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Repair of toilet bowls it to you not a chess!
It is inactive
*24 16/03/2007 14:38:23
bankuss
The participant
Whence: Yaroslavl
It is registered: 23/05/2006
Website Re: FishingSource code in studio (even that piece with eval)... And that differently all this conversations on what.
It is inactive
*25 16/03/2007 14:43:05
Cаша
The manager
Whence: Winnipeg
It is registered: 04/02/2006
Website Re: Fishingbankuss has written:
Source code in studio (even that piece with eval)... And that differently all this conversations on what.
It is not necessary a source code in studio. Rybkin's actions on the verge of infringement of copyrights (and can and already behind a side). The publication dekompilirovanogo a source it will be in my opinion exact infringement and I shall immediately remove it(him).
It is inactive
*26 16/03/2007 14:49:54
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingIt(He) cannot show it(him).
It is physically impossible to lead normal Sishnomu to a kind such volumetric text.
It is inactive
*27 16/03/2007 15:15:52
Master Iks
Moderator
Whence: Village Gvazda Voronezh Obl
It is registered: 11/02/2006 Re: FishingRajmond Dzhouns. Noise level
www.lib.ru/INOFANT/DZHOUNS/noise.txt
It is inactive
*28 16/03/2007 15:43:16
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingHas understood that was available in (0)
Yes, such it is possible(probable). I now start to consider(count) something similar in checkers(blocks)-
Three tables-
Estimation idle time, an estimation damki, and the table of multipliers for the Material and an item estimation for different types of positions.
Only idle time kheshirovanie in addition with standard KHeshu (KHesh pawn structures and t.d) Especially will not accelerate and will not strengthen the program.
And all distortions with the generator too.
Also it is considered it the way not described in a branch.
It is inactive
*29 17/03/2007 09:13:33
WinPooh
Moderator
It is registered: 13/02/2006 Re: FishingDo not forget about aggressive optimization which usually does(makes) the compiler. Dizassemblirovannyj the C-code can differ from the original written Vasikom very strongly.
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" The sizes of a head of the observer to neglect... "
It is inactive
*30 17/03/2007 15:13:42
WildCat
The participant
Whence: Gomel
It is registered: 04/05/2006
Website Re: FishingCаша has written:
bankuss has written:
Source code in studio (even that piece with eval)... And that differently all this conversations on what.
It is not necessary a source code in studio. Rybkin's actions on the verge of infringement of copyrights (and can and already behind a side). The publication dekompilirovanogo a source it will be in my opinion exact infringement and I shall immediately remove it(him).
It is not necessary to be such naive
It is inactive
*31 18/03/2007 09:08:31
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 Re: FishingTo the manager from Rybkin.
Any vykladyvaniya source codes of the Small fish for a general review will not be.
On such offers I shall not begin at all react.
Will not be and vykladyvaniya the modified compiled variant.
Though firstly such idea at me was. It would be desirable to show people
"Fair" Small fish who gives out correct results of the work.
Correct depth of search, instead of reduced on 2. Variants of correct length,
Instead of cut off on 6 polukhodov, and with the cut off forced variants.
And correct quantity(amount) of units of a tree.
But I hope, that Vasik it will think again also will make. And can be, it(he) already
It has made - I, unfortunately, did not see last versions of the Small fish. Then I take
The words back.
By the way, in occasion of bad behaviour.
I, probably, have crossed any side legal. But how to concern
To actions Vasika? It is possible to concern to them as to innocent draw.
It is possible - as to a successful marketing course. And it is possible and as to otkrovennmu
To the swindle directed on introduction of people in error and distortion
True consumer qualities of the product. And a product, by the way,
Is on sale.
In occasion of complexities of decompiling.
If you know two languages - the assembler and Si, and see before yourself a chain
Commands(Teams) on the assembler eventually think as the same actions
To write down on Si. It is not more complex(difficult), cheme translation(transfer) from English on French,
Provided that you well know both of language.
If firstly it seems complex(difficult), possible to begin with the simple word-per-word translation.
Have seen a command(team) mov eax, ebx - get(start) two local variables
int r_eax and int r_ebx also write: r_eax = r_ebx;
Have seen jmp ... - replace on goto ...
Have seen test eax, eax and then jnz ... - write: if (r_eax! =) goto ...
Certainly, you receive something malosedobnoe. But already with it(this) it is possible to work
And gradually to result(bring) in a divine kind. For example, last if (r_eax! = 0) goto...
It is possible to replace on if (r_eax == 0) and to open figured skobochku.
Eventually, skill will come, and you will start to understand logic of work of the compiler.
You will see, that there are typical designs which will translate almost
Not reflecting. You learn many other secrets, and receive from it(this)
Pleasure. During any moment you will come to a bad idea that
You have written all this, and was not any Vasika.
And then you will start to understand and logic written. You will understand, where begin
Files, and what their dimension. Will understand how to describe structures with all of them
Fields. Will understand, that if there are two commands(teams) successively: xor eax, ebx and xor edx, ecx,
That you deal with 64-bit value which define(determine) as unsigned __ int64.
Also that this value - is probable, a хэш-code (if it is operation xor), or any
bitboard if it is operation OR or AND. If have assumed, that it bitboard-
Unpack(Print out) it(him) in the form of kvadratika in the size 8х8, consisting of zero and edinichek
Also compare to an arrangement of figures on a board. Also will understand, that this(thus) such, and as
Could refer to.
Only it is not necessary to forget to test all carefully. To make a mistake(an error) easily,
And to find it(her) then - it is very difficult. Therefore - at once compile and start the test.
Let the part will be while on the assembler, and a part on Si - slinkuetsya.
Someone it can will find(consider) complex(difficult), but I am not friends of such people.
Also believe - the life is arranged much easier, than we think of it(her). Believe
Old aksakalu which remembers still machines(cars) BESM and punched cards with punched tapes.
It is inactive
*32 18/03/2007 09:22:03
bankuss
The participant
Whence: Yaroslavl
It is registered: 23/05/2006
Website Re: FishingWell all right about 2 Mb all of type clearly... And what there are the others of 4 Mb? In exe
It is inactive
*33 18/03/2007 09:30:50
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingI, probably, have crossed any side legal. But how to concern
To actions Vasika? It is possible to concern to them as to innocent draw.
It is possible - as to a successful marketing course. And it is possible and as to otkrovennmu
To the swindle directed on introduction of people in error and distortion
True consumer qualities of the product
To make comments on reception Sishnogo of a code I even already nebudu - there is no sense.
And here with tables again has not understood.
Even if predpolozheni it is true, and at Vasika really table of a material estimation depending on a combination of a material on a board/stage of a party(set)...
In what merketengovyj a course???
I try to count something similar. The same principle as calculation of patterns.
Than it(he) has leaded into error?
It is inactive
*34 18/03/2007 10:42:40
Cаша
The manager
Whence: Winnipeg
It is registered: 04/02/2006
Website Re: FishingRybkin has written:
I, probably, have crossed any side legal. But how to concern
To actions Vasika? It is possible to concern to them as to innocent draw.
It is possible - as to a successful marketing course. And it is possible and as to otkrovennmu
To the swindle directed on introduction of people in error and distortion
True consumer qualities of the product. And a product, by the way,
Is on sale.
I have not understood claims to Vasiku. The Small fish successfully shows the consumer qualities in a rating sheets. Or you accuse it(him) what it(he) at Fruit of idea has borrowed? So it not kriminal. If the code entirely tore off without the permission of the author then was dishonourably.
It is inactive
*35 18/03/2007 11:08:57
FIDElio
The visitor Re: Fishing*
It is edited FIDElio (18/03/2007 11:31:52)
*36 18/03/2007 11:17:53
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingThe small fish has much more good OF than all other programs.
And it gives it(her) such terrible force.
And that that the Small fish not a slow cursor, and is simple on another considers(counts) quantity(amount) of units - so it is all known and Vasik never it(this) hid.
The small fish shows real depth of search. It(she) simply a little in another way considers(counts) units (Nodes)
It is inactive
*37 18/03/2007 12:27:48
Vlad_Imir
The participant
It is registered: 11/11/2006 Re: FishingNS has written:
And here with tables again has not understood.
Even if predpolozheni it is true, and at Vasika really table of a material estimation depending on a combination of a material on a board/stage of a party(set)...
All is simple, Rybkin has directly specified on material_get_info (from Fruit or Toga).
As the information on a material is used – look eval ()
If to accept, that on a board can be no more than 8 pawns, two elephants, itd. That not exotic of type struggle of 5 elephants against 6 horses, and a usual position all combinations of figures, white and black it is equal
int size = 9*3*3*3*2*9*3*3*3*2;
We create massivchik material_info_t *n_material = new material_info_t [size];
We do(make) cycles, for vsez combinations, causing material_comp_info (info, board), we fill a file.
Now it is possible (but it is unessential) it is written down on a disk.
At loading:
material_info_t *n_material;
int main (int argc, char * argv []) {
// init
FileProcessor <material_info_t> FP;
int size = 9*3*3*3*2*9*3*3*3*2;
n_material = new material_info_t [size];
bool succes = FP.ReadFromFile ("T.ini", *n_material [0], size);
.
.
We use:
extern material_info_t *n_material;
void material_get_info (material_info_t *info, const board_t * board) {
int wp, wn, wb, wr, wq;
int bp, bn, bb, br, bq;
int tkey;
wp = board-> number [WhitePawn12];
wn = board-> number [WhiteKnight12];
wb = board-> number [WhiteBishop12];
wr = board-> number [WhiteRook12];
wq = board-> number [WhiteQueen12];
bp = board-> number [BlackPawn12];
bn = board-> number [BlackKnight12];
bb = board-> number [BlackBishop12];
br = board-> number [BlackRook12];
bq = board-> number [BlackQueen12];
if (! (wn> 2 || wb> 2 || wr> 2 || wq> 1 || bn> 2 || bb> 2 || br> 2 || bq> 1)) {
tkey = bq
+ br *2
+ bb *2*3
+ bn *2*3*3
+ bp *2*3*3*3
+ wq *2*3*3*3*9
+ wr *2*3*3*3*9*2
+ wb *2*3*3*3*9*2*3
+ wn *2*3*3*3*9*2*3*3
+ wp *2*3*3*3*9*2*3*3*3;
*info = n_material [tkey];
return;
}
// If two queens, five ladej itp - it is caused
material_comp_info (info, board);
From structure material_info_t it is cleaned(removed) uint32 lock - it is not necessary, certainly
Speeds of percent(interests) ten adds
It is inactive
*38 18/03/2007 12:56:15
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingAll is simple, Rybkin has directly specified on material_get_info
I have above written - I have understood it.
Only 10 % of an increase of speed it will not give, and if sozdalit the table to consider(count) it(her) it is necessary precisely! Well would receive Vasik on it(this) a maximum of 5 items(points), and where the others 145?
We we shall admit(allow) give(allow) cost of a horse as distance from the center.
We improve, we get(start) the table on 64 elements. What for to fill it(her) value which we considered(counted)? We can make more correct table.
It is edited NS (18/03/2007 13:08:17)
It is inactive
*39 18/03/2007 13:42:42
Rybkin
The participant
It is registered: 14/03/2007 Re: FishingVlad_Imir, I congratulate! You the first who has understood the essence.
Unfortunately, algorithm Rybkinogo of a variant material_get_info is not known-
It(He) has remained for the staff. But the main thing that all this file - only an estimation
Material.
In occasion of fraud.
Once again I repeat, that the Small fish shows the reduced depth of the search, cut off
On six polukhodov variants, and incorrect number of units. I suspect, that all this
It is made with the unique purpose - to make at us impression, that the Small fish works on the basis of
Knowledge, instead of search.
However, personally my attitude(relation) to the Small fish and Vasiku - very much even positive.
Vasik - certainly genius. All taki it(he) has written very good program, which
Plays best.
And geniuses can forgive small pranks.
It is inactive
*40 18/03/2007 13:53:41
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingUnfortunately, algorithm Rybkinogo of a variant material_get_info is not known
The same delirium, as well as phrase that nobody is known algorithm of the table of an estimation of a horse received by me.
Once again I repeat, that the Small fish shows the reduced depth of the search, cut off
On six polukhodov variants, and incorrect number of units. I suspect, that all this
It is made with the unique purpose - to make at us impression, that the Small fish works on the basis of
Knowledge, instead of search.
Full akhineya. I have not thought nearly that someone close to programming and chess programming is pinned, and there is someone somewhere has found a portion of delirium, and by virtue of the bad understanding also incorrectly interprets.
The small fish shows the reduced depth of the search, cut off
On six polukhodov variants
Yes? Take any position and check up. The small fish writes tochno
, And incorrect number of units.
What is " true quantity(amount) of units " your way?
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*41 18/03/2007 14:33:32
drowsy
The participant
It is registered: 07/09/2006 Re: FishingThe person which can take the Small fish, dizasemblirovat and translates(transfers) in normal Sishnyj a code, in the world not so it is a lot of. One examination at me accepted on programming - has forced a program with a source code kilov on hundred with superfluous otkompilirovat, and then on assemblernomu to the text to explain, how it(she) works. (the program was - optimization of cycles in assemblernykh source codes). But something to me to not be trusted, that such aksakal to us here has come. Imkho, this spring approach of comrades of type ras.
It is inactive
*42 18/03/2007 14:45:16
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingSo it is a lot of, and such people simply are not present
So as well as there are no people running a hundred-meter race for half-seconds.
It is inactive
*43 18/03/2007 15:06:07
Cаша
The manager
Whence: Winnipeg
It is registered: 04/02/2006
Website Re: FishingChildren(Guys), you not that speak something. Rybkin of anything supernatural has not told. We take the program disassembler and it(she) from a machine code makes a mix of a code on Si and the assembler. After that it is possible to work and make above any pieces Sishnogo of a code their readable. If all this to do(make) accurately all this will be also kompilirivatsya.
I the truth 15 am not engaged in such things of years, but at debugging sometimes it is necessary to look a code at a level of machine commands(teams).
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*44 18/03/2007 15:22:38
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingThe size of a code!
What size of a code? Not one of leading developers of chess programs cannot understand it(him) as there are no names of functions and names of variables. Dizasembler it konecho is good. But to understand such code it is impossible.
The program of the decision of a quadratic it is possible to lead Sishnomu to a kind, but in any way the good chess program.
It is inactive
*45 18/03/2007 15:27:44
drowsy
The participant
It is registered: 07/09/2006 Re: FishingWell you, NS. If people which in compilers and dizasemblirovanii have eaten a dog. Only in it(this) also are engaged, and source codes gcc know by heart. Only it is not enough of them and they on forums not shlyayutsya.
And in Rybkin here bosh poret, that is easily possible source codes of the Small fish in readable About the text to translate(transfer).
Has especially made laugh
Have seen a command(team) mov eax, ebx - get(start) two local variables
int r_eax and int r_ebx also write: r_eax = r_ebx;
It is inactive
*46 18/03/2007 15:37:06
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingWell you, NS. If people which in compilers and dizasemblirovanii have eaten a dog. Only in it(this) also are engaged, and source codes gcc know by heart. Only it is not enough of them and they on forums not shlyayutsya.
It is possible to result(bring) though one example of reduction to readable sishnomu to a kind serious otkompilirovannoj programs?
I write already more two tens years, but about such did not hear. Even hearings such never was... Even on the Internet.
Which I saw last example - decompiling for a week of the program from twenty lines. (from dialect VB, the program otkompilirovana in an intermediate code) And - one hundred person tried to understand that does(makes) this miracle the program, it was possible to one of them.
Fruit - on the order is more complex(difficult) than this program, and has on four orders greater volume.
Decompiling for 100 + человеко-years - in such I shall believe. If to find one hundred geniuses, to give everyone on the whole condition - probably for couple of years it will be possible to achieve any results.
I shall repeat - is not present in history of any example of reduction to readable Sishnomu to a kind volumetric complex(difficult) skoplirovannykh programs.
It is inactive
*47 18/03/2007 15:42:46
Cаша
The manager
Whence: Winnipeg
It is registered: 04/02/2006
Website Re: FishingNS has written:
The size of a code!
What size of a code? Not one of leading developers of chess programs cannot understand it(him) as there are no names of functions and names of variables. Dizasembler it konecho is good. But to understand such code it is impossible.
Even if it unequivocally would affirm Rybkin, I too would doubt of it(this).
To understand any pieces of a code always it is possible, well and to count these pieces key too it is possible, why is not present
It is inactive
*48 18/03/2007 15:53:06
FIDElio
The visitor Re: FishingAnd what the software unless is not present which translates from the assembler in C?
http: //
www.microapl.co.uk/asm2c/index.html
*49 18/03/2007 15:55:09
NS
The participant
Whence: St.-Petersburg
It is registered: 02/05/2006
Website Re: FishingTo understand pieces of a code it is possible, to count their key too - but it is a question of full reduction of the program a readable kind. Even simple renaming of all names - practically does(makes) impossible restoration of a code. It is a question about hundreds thousand lines of a code!!!
It is inactive
*50 18/03/2007 16:01:00
Cаша
The manager
Whence: Winnipeg
It is registered: 04/02/2006
Website Re: FishingNS has written:
To understand pieces of a code it is possible, to count their key too - but it is a question of full reduction of the program a readable kind. Even simple renaming of all names - practically does(makes) impossible restoration of a code. It is a question about hundreds thousand lines of a code!!!
NS, I pay your attention to the citation from Rybkin:
Only it is not necessary to forget to test all carefully. To make a mistake(an error) easily,
And to find it(her) then - it is very difficult. Therefore - at once compile and start the test.
Let the part will be while on the assembler, and a part on Si - slinkuetsya.
It(He) recognizes, that all code has translated(transferred) on Si, at least I and have understood it(him).
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I fail to see what sort of impressive feat is demonstrated here.
I see claims of how easy it is to dissassemble binary into source.
I see a link to a program that is supposed to translate assembly into C. Without trying it, I can tell you that it won't work on Rybka. There are others in SourceForge. They won't work either.
Turning the hamberger back into the cow is more work than most people think it to be. Some Russian newsgroup's handwaving about how they have it all figured out leaves me a bit unimpressed.
