Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

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BrendanJNorman
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Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by BrendanJNorman » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:53 pm

Hey guys,

I have just downloaded some tablebases from a site which Norbert recommended, but when analyzing a simple endgame the endgame TBs did not work.

In the TB window it says "white mates in 24" or something, but I cannot make the engines actually USE the TBs in matches.

In the Fritz GUI for example, its basically plug and play.

How to do this in Arena?

Thanks for any help.

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Mike S.
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Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by Mike S. » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:21 am

Only the Nalimov path is globabl (F11 --> UCI tab). For other formats like Gaviota or Syzygy, you need to set the path in the engine settings each: Right-click in the engine output window --> Configure...

HTH
Regards, Mike

MikeB
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Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by MikeB » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:31 am

Mike S. wrote:Only the Nalimov path is globabl (F11 --> UCI tab). For other formats like Gaviota or Syzygy, you need to set the path in the engine settings each: Right-click in the engine output window --> Configure...

HTH
sounds like an opportunity for an enhancement...

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yurikvelo
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Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by yurikvelo » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:58 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:Hey guys,

I have just downloaded some tablebases from a site which Norbert recommended, but when analyzing a simple endgame the endgame TBs did not work.

In the TB window it says "white mates in 24" or something, but I cannot make the engines actually USE the TBs in matches.

In the Fritz GUI for example, its basically plug and play.

How to do this in Arena?

Thanks for any help.
Arena support Gaviota for adjudication in tournament mode and support global UCI option for Nalimov TB.

Only obsolete engines support Gaviota or Nalymov.

Modern engines support only Syzygy.
Arena has no Syzygy support.
You have to manually set Syzygy options for each particular engine/build.

There is no practical need to use Gaviota for tournament adjudication if you use "Adjudicate game" option + "adjudicate early draw", since it will happen much earlier than 5-men if your engine use Syzygy-6

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yurikvelo
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Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by yurikvelo » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:27 pm

SzG wrote:That's an exaggeration. I know of only about a dozen engines that support syzygy, most of the engines support Nalimov, Shawul or Gaviota.
Let's count.
Approach #1.

Consider non-obsolete 16 engines, which passed to Stage 2 TCEC-2016:

Syzygy
------------------
Komodo
Stockfish
Jonny
Gull
Fire
Houdini
Chiron

Nalimov
--------
Rybka
Protector
Naum


none
-------
Andscacs
Vajolet2
Nirvana
Ginkgo
Hannibal
Raptor



Highest rated engine with EGTB support other than Syzygy - is Rybka.
7 engines support Syzygy

Approach #2.
Consider non-obsolete top 20 engines, which have 3100+ in CCRL 40/40

Syzygy
--------------
Komodo
Stockfish
Houdini
Fire
Gull
Chiron
Fritz

Nalimov
-------------
Rybka
Naum
Protector
Alfil

Gaviota
---------------
Critter
Equinox

None
---------------
Andscacs
NirvanaChess
Hannibal
Fizbo
BlackMamba
Strelka
Bouquet

BrendanJNorman
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Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by BrendanJNorman » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:55 pm

Perhaps there's a point here, but I wouldn't call sub 3100 ELO engines "obsolete". :)

It really depends on what you are using an engine for...

1. Analysis: If you ONLY want an engine for analysis/blunder checking, you only need Stockfish really...

2.Engine Tournaments: Just as much fun can be had running tournaments between engines in the 2400-2800 range. Phalanx 25 vs Prodeo 2 MACHEID for example...very weak compared to a non "obsolete" engine, but the game produced between these guys will be fantastic and still basically GM level!

3.Training Games: Given that only about 5% of players is over 1800 ELO, I don't see how ANY engine with a pleasant playing style can be "obsolete". I have been playing some blitz games with Storm 0.6 recently, which is only about 1866 on CCRL, but the games as fun as hell and I can win a bunch of them. If I'm not careful I can lose without feeling like I've lost to a computer. Far from obsolete haha!

Just my thoughts. Would be nice to have a TB format that is "globally" supported or run automatically within the GUI.

Doesn't anyone have a working link for the Nalimov ones?


:oops:

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velmarin
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Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by velmarin » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:55 pm

SzG wrote:He is joking.

For me no engine is obsolete if it is actively developed. Irrespective of level.

BTW, this is an I think complete list of syzygy-capable engines:

Arasan
Chiron
DisasterArea
Fire
Fizbo
Hakkapeliitta
Houdini
Komodo
Pedone
SmarThink
Stockfish
Texel
Vajolet
There is a lack Gull,
and I mean its original version compiled by the same ThinkingALot from the year 2014.

bob
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Getting engines to use TBs in Arena

Post by bob » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:46 am

SzG wrote:He is joking.

For me no engine is obsolete if it is actively developed. Irrespective of level.

BTW, this is an I think complete list of syzygy-capable engines:

Arasan
Chiron
DisasterArea
Fire
Fizbo
Hakkapeliitta
Houdini
Komodo
Pedone
SmarThink
Stockfish
Texel
Vajolet
Add Crafty 25.1 which will be out soon...

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