Mate in 18:
[d]1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - 0 1
Stockfish 5 gave up pretty early. As it is mate in 18, I thought engines would solve this reaching to 18*2 = 36 ply. But no! It's really difficult for them. I've let Houdini 4 Pro to analyse for more than a hour (36 plies), and Deep Rybka 4.1 for 40(!) plies. Here are the analysis:
FEN: 1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - 0 1
Houdini 4 Pro:
 4/18	00:00	 774	387k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 5/18	00:00	 825	412k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 6/18	00:00	 876	146k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 7/18	00:00	 1k	33k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 8/18	00:00	 1k	38k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 9/18	00:00	 2k	46k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 10/18	00:00	 2k	42k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 11/18	00:00	 3k	63k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 12/18	00:00	 6k	96k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 13/18	00:00	 10k	167k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 14/18	00:00	 20k	301k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 15/19	00:00	 36k	497k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 16/19	00:00	 63k	778k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 17/21	00:00	 111k	1,196k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 18/27	00:00	 190k	1,700k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 19/27	00:00	 315k	2,216k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 20/27	00:00	 486k	2,656k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 21/36	00:00	 882k	3,253k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 22/37	00:00	 1,475k	3,670k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 23/41	00:00	 2,722k	4,026k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 24/43	00:01	 5,012k	4,205k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 25/45	00:02	 9,975k	4,303k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 26/45	00:04	 17,932k	4,376k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 27/49	00:07	 31,905k	4,335k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 28/51	00:13	 59,662k	4,369k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 29/53	00:25	 109,376k	4,342k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 30/59	00:48	 212,787k	4,424k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 31/65	01:37	 416,413k	4,250k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 32/70	04:38	 1,157,995k	4,164k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 33/70	07:55	 1,951,140k	4,104k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 34/70	15:15	 3,694,830k	4,037k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 35/73	28:22	 6,759,481k	3,969k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 36/78	1:01:42	 14,749,519k	3,983k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
FEN: 1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - 0 1
Stockfish 5 64 bit:
 1/1	00:00	 37	9k	-10.40	a7xb8Q
 2/2	00:00	 71	18k	-7.90	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 3/3	00:00	 122	31k	-7.90	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 4/4	00:00	 174	35k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 5/4	00:00	 226	45k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 6/4	00:00	 278	46k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 7/4	00:00	 330	55k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 8/4	00:00	 387	55k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 9/4	00:00	 446	64k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 10/4	00:00	 595	74k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 11/4	00:00	 661	73k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 12/4	00:00	 744	74k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 13/4	00:00	 837	76k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 14/4	00:00	 921	84k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 15/4	00:00	 1k	85k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 16/4	00:00	 1k	91k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 17/4	00:00	 1k	99k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 18/4	00:00	 2k	104k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 19/4	00:00	 2k	117k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 20/4	00:00	 2k	123k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 21/4	00:00	 2k	130k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 22/4	00:00	 3k	144k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 23/4	00:00	 3k	159k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 24/4	00:00	 5k	184k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 25/4	00:00	 6k	206k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 26/4	00:00	 6k	222k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 27/4	00:00	 7k	244k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 28/4	00:00	 8k	254k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 29/4	00:00	 10k	276k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 30/4	00:00	 14k	307k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 31/4	00:00	 16k	323k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 32/4	00:00	 21k	358k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 33/4	00:00	 23k	373k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 34/4	00:00	 24k	386k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 35/4	00:00	 25k	392k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 36/4	00:00	 28k	420k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 37/4	00:00	 29k	429k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 38/4	00:00	 31k	445k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 39/4	00:00	 32k	451k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 40/4	00:00	 34k	474k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 41/4	00:00	 36k	482k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 42/4	00:00	 38k	499k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 43/4	00:00	 40k	516k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 44/4	00:00	 42k	535k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 45/4	00:00	 44k	558k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 46/4	00:00	 48k	584k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 47/4	00:00	 51k	600k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 48/4	00:00	 54k	617k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 49/4	00:00	 56k	633k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 50/4	00:00	 58k	654k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 51/4	00:00	 60k	672k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 52/4	00:00	 64k	698k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 53/4	00:00	 67k	719k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 54/4	00:00	 71k	742k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 55/4	00:00	 74k	770k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 56/4	00:00	 80k	797k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 57/4	00:00	 88k	837k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 58/4	00:00	 93k	863k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 59/4	00:00	 97k	889k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 60/4	00:00	 102k	908k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 61/4	00:00	 107k	936k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 62/4	00:00	 118k	970k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 63/4	00:00	 124k	994k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 64/4	00:00	 130k	1,022k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 65/4	00:00	 136k	1,043k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 66/4	00:00	 143k	1,078k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 67/4	00:00	 151k	1,108k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 68/4	00:00	 163k	1,139k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 69/4	00:00	 169k	1,168k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 70/4	00:00	 185k	1,206k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 71/4	00:00	 194k	1,226k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 72/4	00:00	 203k	1,259k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 73/4	00:00	 215k	1,301k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 74/4	00:00	 225k	1,330k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 75/4	00:00	 235k	1,367k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 76/4	00:00	 248k	1,403k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 77/4	00:00	 261k	1,444k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 78/4	00:00	 278k	1,495k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 79/4	00:00	 291k	1,525k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 80/4	00:00	 309k	1,577k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 81/4	00:00	 359k	1,676k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 82/4	00:00	 403k	1,743k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 83/4	00:00	 488k	1,893k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 84/4	00:00	 506k	1,915k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 85/4	00:00	 602k	2,034k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 86/4	00:00	 624k	2,065k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 87/4	00:00	 645k	2,075k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 88/4	00:00	 681k	2,095k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 89/4	00:00	 753k	2,195k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 90/4	00:00	 783k	2,229k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 91/4	00:00	 838k	2,301k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 92/4	00:00	 866k	2,329k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 93/4	00:00	 909k	2,381k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 94/4	00:00	 938k	2,412k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 95/4	00:00	 975k	2,444k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 96/4	00:00	 1,021k	2,491k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 97/4	00:00	 1,147k	2,589k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 98/4	00:00	 1,223k	2,596k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 99/4	00:00	 1,384k	2,661k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 100/4	00:00	 1,470k	2,723k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 101/4	00:00	 1,521k	2,755k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 102/4	00:00	 1,584k	2,788k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 103/4	00:00	 1,616k	2,801k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 104/4	00:00	 1,651k	2,817k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 105/4	00:00	 1,698k	2,850k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 106/4	00:00	 1,727k	2,868k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 107/4	00:00	 1,772k	2,895k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 108/4	00:00	 1,816k	2,924k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 109/4	00:00	 1,862k	2,950k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 110/4	00:00	 2,048k	2,990k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 111/4	00:00	 2,191k	3,055k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 112/4	00:00	 2,238k	3,074k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 113/4	00:00	 2,369k	3,121k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 114/4	00:00	 2,456k	3,137k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 115/4	00:00	 2,579k	3,184k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 116/4	00:00	 2,790k	3,248k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 117/4	00:00	 2,942k	3,305k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 118/4	00:00	 3,001k	3,324k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 119/4	00:00	 3,269k	3,391k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 120/4	00:01	 4,308k	3,552k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
FEN: 1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - 0 1
Deep Rybka 4.1 SSE42 x64:
 1	00:00	 36	2k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 2	00:00	 55	3k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 3	00:00	 74	5k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 4	00:00	 90	6k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 5	00:00	 112	7k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 6	00:00	 136	9k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 7	00:00	 176	11k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 8	00:00	 243	8k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 9	00:00	 334	10k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 10	00:00	 466	15k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 11	00:00	 804	25k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 12	00:00	 1k	37k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 13	00:00	 2k	53k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 14	00:00	 2k	70k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 15	00:00	 3k	97k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 16	00:00	 4k	127k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 17	00:00	 5k	111k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 18	00:00	 8k	161k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 19	00:00	 10k	218k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 20	00:00	 14k	224k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 21	00:00	 20k	255k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 22	00:00	 26k	280k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 23	00:00	 33k	304k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 24	00:00	 42k	336k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 25	00:00	 56k	355k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 26	00:00	 76k	372k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 27	00:00	 106k	397k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 28	00:00	 268k	418k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 29	00:01	 487k	421k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 30	00:01	 644k	425k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 31	00:02	 1,278k	452k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 32	00:03	 1,777k	449k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 33	00:05	 2,436k	448k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 34	00:07	 3,312k	441k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 35	00:10	 4,633k	439k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 36	00:15	 6,940k	437k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 37	00:25	 11,067k	430k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 38	00:38	 16,266k	426k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 39	01:00	 25,631k	424k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 40	01:40	 42,213k	419k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
 40	01:51	 45,833k	410k	 0.00	a7xb8Q c4-c3 Qb8xb7
As you see, all engines get this a draw, although it not.
[Event "Babic 1996"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Der brillante Schachzug 100"]
[Black "Matt in 18"]
[Result "*"]
[Annotator "Walter Eigenmann"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[Source "Walter Eigenman"]
[SourceDate "2011.11.01"]
1. axb8=N $3 (1. axb8=Q $2 c3 2. Qxb7 $11 (2. Kd4 $11)) (1. a8=Q $2 Nc6+ 2. Kd5
Nb4+ $11) 1... c3 2. Na6 bxa6 3. b7 a5 4. b8=N a4 5. Nc6 dxc6 6. d7 c5 7. d8=N
c4 8. Ne6 fxe6 9. Kd6 e5 10. f7 e4 11. f8=N e3 12. Ng6 hxg6 13. h7 g5 14. h8=N
g4 15. Nf7 g3 16. Ng5 g2 17. Ne4 g1=Q 18. Nxc3# *
[pgn][Event "Babic 1996"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Der brillante Schachzug 100"]
[Black "Matt in 18"]
[Result "*"]
[Annotator "Walter Eigenmann"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[Source "Walter Eigenman"]
[SourceDate "2011.11.01"]
1. axb8=N $3 (1. axb8=Q $2 c3 2. Qxb7 $11 (2. Kd4 $11)) (1. a8=Q $2 Nc6+ 2. Kd5
Nb4+ $11) 1... c3 2. Na6 bxa6 3. b7 a5 4. b8=N a4 5. Nc6 dxc6 6. d7 c5 7. d8=N
c4 8. Ne6 fxe6 9. Kd6 e5 10. f7 e4 11. f8=N e3 12. Ng6 hxg6 13. h7 g5 14. h8=N
g4 15. Nf7 g3 16. Ng5 g2 17. Ne4 g1=Q 18. Nxc3# *
[/pgn]
			
			
									
						
										
						Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
Moderator: Ras
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				vittyvirus  
- Posts: 646
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				lech
- Posts: 1170
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Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
Maybe the palliatives like null move search = off or Monte Carlo can help you. 
The next version of Sting (not published yet) gets it quikly. I wrote about it (http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52829). It is one of the most difficult positions to solve.
			
			
									
						
							The next version of Sting (not published yet) gets it quikly. I wrote about it (http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52829). It is one of the most difficult positions to solve.
Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
			
						- 
				hgm  
- Posts: 28398
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:06 am
- Location: Amsterdam
- Full name: H G Muller
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
The problem here is that there is one very long branch in the tree that leads to mate, while all other branches from the root liberate all the black pieces, which makes the tree explode. So engines that more or less try to use the same depth on all branches (give or take a few reductions / extensions) would never get to the end of that long branch to see the mate.
What you need to solve this kind of problem is not conventional iterative deepening, but an engine that works from a node budget, which it will evenly divide over all his daughter nodes. The sub-tree with low branching ratio will be searched far deeper than the others, with the same number of nodes, so that the mate will be seen with a quite low node budget.
			
			
									
						
										
						What you need to solve this kind of problem is not conventional iterative deepening, but an engine that works from a node budget, which it will evenly divide over all his daughter nodes. The sub-tree with low branching ratio will be searched far deeper than the others, with the same number of nodes, so that the mate will be seen with a quite low node budget.
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				RolandoFurioso  
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:29 pm
- Location: Frankfurt
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
Of course, much depends upon move ordering and extensions/reductions employed. I've just checked it with my own engine Fischerle 0.9.50 64 Bit. Employing just the standard (match play rather than chess problem solving) settings and allocating 256 MB hash, Fischerle finds the solution (mate in 18) in around 270 seconds, searching slightly less than 99 million positions:
L1: -9897 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♕b8x♟b7
L2: -10457
L2: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L3: -240
L3: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L4: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L5: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L6: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L7: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L8: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L9: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L10: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L11: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L12: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L13: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L14: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L15: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L16: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L17: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L18: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L19: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L20: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♕b8x♟b7 PATT
L21: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♕b8x♟b7 PATT
L22: 240
HV: 999965 ♙a7x♞b8♘ ♟c4-c3 ♘b8-a6 ♟b7x♘a6 ♙b6-b7 ♟a6-a5 ♙b7-b8♘ ♟a5-a4 ♘b8-c6 ♟d7x♘c6 ♙d6-d7 ♟c6-c5 ♙d7-d8♘ ♟c5-c4 ♘d8-e6 ♟f7x♘e6 ♔e5-d6 ♟e6-e5 ♙f6-f7 ♟e5-e4 ♙f7-f8♘ ♟e4-e3 ♘f8-g6 ♟h7x♘g6 ♙h6-h7 ♟g6-g5 ♙h7-h8♘ ♟g5-g4 ♘h8-g6 ♟g4-g3 ♘g6-f4 ♟g3-g2 ♘f4-d5 ♟g2-g1♛ ♘d5x♟c3 MATT
			
			
									
						
										
						L1: -9897 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♕b8x♟b7
L2: -10457
L2: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L3: -240
L3: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L4: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L5: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L6: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L7: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L8: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L9: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L10: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L11: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L12: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L13: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L14: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L15: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L16: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L17: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L18: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L19: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♔e5-e4 PATT
L20: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♕b8x♟b7 PATT
L21: 0 ♙a7x♞b8♕ ♟c4-c3 ♕b8x♟b7 PATT
L22: 240
HV: 999965 ♙a7x♞b8♘ ♟c4-c3 ♘b8-a6 ♟b7x♘a6 ♙b6-b7 ♟a6-a5 ♙b7-b8♘ ♟a5-a4 ♘b8-c6 ♟d7x♘c6 ♙d6-d7 ♟c6-c5 ♙d7-d8♘ ♟c5-c4 ♘d8-e6 ♟f7x♘e6 ♔e5-d6 ♟e6-e5 ♙f6-f7 ♟e5-e4 ♙f7-f8♘ ♟e4-e3 ♘f8-g6 ♟h7x♘g6 ♙h6-h7 ♟g6-g5 ♙h7-h8♘ ♟g5-g4 ♘h8-g6 ♟g4-g3 ♘g6-f4 ♟g3-g2 ♘f4-d5 ♟g2-g1♛ ♘d5x♟c3 MATT
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				RolandoFurioso  
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:29 pm
- Location: Frankfurt
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
Of course, these are the most natural things to try. In my own experiments, however, switching off null move pruning actually disabled my engine (Fischerle) to find the solution M18, as it turned out to be no longer able to quickly reach the nominal search depth required (given the implemented extensions / reductions) to find the mate.lech wrote:Maybe the palliatives like null move search = off or Monte Carlo can help you.
The next version of Sting (not published yet) gets it quikly. I wrote about it (http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52829). It is one of the most difficult positions to solve.
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				SMIRF  
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:29 pm
- Location: Buettelborn/Hessen/Germany
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
My weak private engine FullChess GUI-64 - SMIRF Engine (Ver. MS-180a)
surprisingly seems to have an idea:
			
			
									
						
										
						surprisingly seems to have an idea:
- 00:36.5 (18.04=) +M~??? 8.axb8=N (axb8=Q) c3 9.Na6 bxa6 10.b7 a5 11.b8=N a4 12.Nc6 dxc6 13.d7 c5 14.d8=N c4 15.Ne6 fxe6
 00:34.4 (18.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:14.7 (17.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:08.4 (16.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:02.8 (15.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:01.2 (14.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:00.6 (13.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:00.2 (12.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:00.1 (11.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
 00:00.0 (10.01=) +0.000 8.axb8=Q (axb8=R) c3 9.Qxb7
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				vittyvirus  
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:30 pm
- Full name: Fahad Syed
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
What would be its elo? and where from can I get the latest sting version?lech wrote:Maybe the palliatives like null move search = off or Monte Carlo can help you.
The next version of Sting (not published yet) gets it quikly. I wrote about it (http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52829). It is one of the most difficult positions to solve.
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				vittyvirus  
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:30 pm
- Full name: Fahad Syed
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
I wonder why does Stockfish completely give up at this position? And why don't engines find the mate in 18 at 36 ply?
			
			
									
						
										
						- 
				lech
- Posts: 1170
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
As I earlier wrote I can't see ELO difference, and it will be published soon or soooooon.vittyvirus wrote:What would be its elo? and where from can I get the latest sting version?lech wrote:Maybe the palliatives like null move search = off or Monte Carlo can help you.
The next version of Sting (not published yet) gets it quikly. I wrote about it (http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52829). It is one of the most difficult positions to solve.

Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
			
						- 
				hgm  
- Posts: 28398
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:06 am
- Location: Amsterdam
- Full name: H G Muller
Re: Engines can't solve this puzzle (even not Stockfish 5)
Because when strong engines such as Stockfish say they searched 36 ply, it only means they searched one selected branch 36 ply. Almost all other branchess in the tree will have been searched to only 9 ply or so. If the mate is in there (which it will be, if the branch leading to it will not in some way achieve something very good in these first 9 ply), it is still very far beyond the horizon indeed.vittyvirus wrote:I wonder why does Stockfish completely give up at this position? And why don't engines find the mate in 18 at 36 ply?