Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships

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bob
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by bob » Wed May 11, 2011 1:33 pm

Ferdy wrote:
CRoberson wrote:The 2011 Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 23/24 2011. It is tentative only to give others a chance to tell me of a serious timing conflict. After looking around the usual tournaments, I couldn't find a conflict.

The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.

I will have the web pages up this week. You can respond here or PM me if you have any questions, comments or requests.
The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.
I changed binary almost every after game, to adjust time control codes and adjust evaluation values. In this case I have to send everytime I change binary.

Just a suggestion, organizer to request source codes of engines (not necessarily all participants). Commecial engines are optional, good if they submit source codes (understandable product protection). Organizer to identify and inform paticipants of the person who knows the submitted source codes.
One person is probably enough as a source code reviewer (the only person who knows the source code). It is up to the reviwer wether engine will ultimately enter the tournament. It is also helpful if reviewer informs participants of what is allowed and not allowed although it is really up to him to decide (participants should just trust this person).
Here's another suggestion. Do _not_ change your program between rounds. You introduce more bugs than you fix. From someone that has been doing this a _long_ time...

jdart
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by jdart » Wed May 11, 2011 1:52 pm

Unfortunately I've just booked a trip - I'm out of town on the 23rd, returning the 24th.

--Jon

Ferdy
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by Ferdy » Wed May 11, 2011 3:50 pm

bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
CRoberson wrote:The 2011 Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 23/24 2011. It is tentative only to give others a chance to tell me of a serious timing conflict. After looking around the usual tournaments, I couldn't find a conflict.

The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.

I will have the web pages up this week. You can respond here or PM me if you have any questions, comments or requests.
The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.
I changed binary almost every after game, to adjust time control codes and adjust evaluation values. In this case I have to send everytime I change binary.

Just a suggestion, organizer to request source codes of engines (not necessarily all participants). Commecial engines are optional, good if they submit source codes (understandable product protection). Organizer to identify and inform paticipants of the person who knows the submitted source codes.
One person is probably enough as a source code reviewer (the only person who knows the source code). It is up to the reviwer wether engine will ultimately enter the tournament. It is also helpful if reviewer informs participants of what is allowed and not allowed although it is really up to him to decide (participants should just trust this person).
Here's another suggestion. Do _not_ change your program between rounds. You introduce more bugs than you fix. From someone that has been doing this a _long_ time...
Witnessing an engine play for the whole game is one of the best way to catch obvious bugs and suspect engine behaviour. I was only fixing the obvious. I run the fixed version in another computer for a verification of the fix, while the buggy engine was still playing. I recheck code related to suspect engine behaviour a day after.

bob
Posts: 20478
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by bob » Wed May 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Ferdy wrote:
bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
CRoberson wrote:The 2011 Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 23/24 2011. It is tentative only to give others a chance to tell me of a serious timing conflict. After looking around the usual tournaments, I couldn't find a conflict.

The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.

I will have the web pages up this week. You can respond here or PM me if you have any questions, comments or requests.
The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.
I changed binary almost every after game, to adjust time control codes and adjust evaluation values. In this case I have to send everytime I change binary.

Just a suggestion, organizer to request source codes of engines (not necessarily all participants). Commecial engines are optional, good if they submit source codes (understandable product protection). Organizer to identify and inform paticipants of the person who knows the submitted source codes.
One person is probably enough as a source code reviewer (the only person who knows the source code). It is up to the reviwer wether engine will ultimately enter the tournament. It is also helpful if reviewer informs participants of what is allowed and not allowed although it is really up to him to decide (participants should just trust this person).
Here's another suggestion. Do _not_ change your program between rounds. You introduce more bugs than you fix. From someone that has been doing this a _long_ time...
Witnessing an engine play for the whole game is one of the best way to catch obvious bugs and suspect engine behaviour. I was only fixing the obvious. I run the fixed version in another computer for a verification of the fix, while the buggy engine was still playing. I recheck code related to suspect engine behaviour a day after.
I have been playing in computer chess events since 1976. I can guarantee you that more games have been lost by bugs introduced between rounds than for any other single reason. I've not fallen into this trap in 20 years. I do my development somewhat like the Linux (or other) projects. A month or so before a tournament, we freeze new changes. At the 2 week mark, we freeze any tuning or adjustments we are working on. From that point to the tournament, the only changes that get in are those that fix actual bugs that pose a significant risk. As a result, you don't see Crafty crashing, or doing other silly things, due to last-minute changes. Being bug free is just as important as being good...

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Wed May 11, 2011 4:43 pm

bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
CRoberson wrote:The 2011 Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 23/24 2011. It is tentative only to give others a chance to tell me of a serious timing conflict. After looking around the usual tournaments, I couldn't find a conflict.

The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.

I will have the web pages up this week. You can respond here or PM me if you have any questions, comments or requests.
The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.
I changed binary almost every after game, to adjust time control codes and adjust evaluation values. In this case I have to send everytime I change binary.

Just a suggestion, organizer to request source codes of engines (not necessarily all participants). Commecial engines are optional, good if they submit source codes (understandable product protection). Organizer to identify and inform paticipants of the person who knows the submitted source codes.
One person is probably enough as a source code reviewer (the only person who knows the source code). It is up to the reviwer wether engine will ultimately enter the tournament. It is also helpful if reviewer informs participants of what is allowed and not allowed although it is really up to him to decide (participants should just trust this person).
Here's another suggestion. Do _not_ change your program between rounds. You introduce more bugs than you fix. From someone that has been doing this a _long_ time...
Witnessing an engine play for the whole game is one of the best way to catch obvious bugs and suspect engine behaviour. I was only fixing the obvious. I run the fixed version in another computer for a verification of the fix, while the buggy engine was still playing. I recheck code related to suspect engine behaviour a day after.
I have been playing in computer chess events since 1976. I can guarantee you that more games have been lost by bugs introduced between rounds than for any other single reason. I've not fallen into this trap in 20 years. I do my development somewhat like the Linux (or other) projects. A month or so before a tournament, we freeze new changes. At the 2 week mark, we freeze any tuning or adjustments we are working on. From that point to the tournament, the only changes that get in are those that fix actual bugs that pose a significant risk. As a result, you don't see Crafty crashing, or doing other silly things, due to last-minute changes. Being bug free is just as important as being good...
A smart strategy Bob,I like it :D
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

vladstamate
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by vladstamate » Wed May 11, 2011 5:33 pm

I am planning to participate this year (after having a blast last year) and I see no problem with either providing the binary or source of my engine. For what is worth...


Vlad.

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michiguel
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by michiguel » Wed May 11, 2011 5:34 pm

bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
CRoberson wrote:The 2011 Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 23/24 2011. It is tentative only to give others a chance to tell me of a serious timing conflict. After looking around the usual tournaments, I couldn't find a conflict.

The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.

I will have the web pages up this week. You can respond here or PM me if you have any questions, comments or requests.
The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.
I changed binary almost every after game, to adjust time control codes and adjust evaluation values. In this case I have to send everytime I change binary.

Just a suggestion, organizer to request source codes of engines (not necessarily all participants). Commecial engines are optional, good if they submit source codes (understandable product protection). Organizer to identify and inform paticipants of the person who knows the submitted source codes.
One person is probably enough as a source code reviewer (the only person who knows the source code). It is up to the reviwer wether engine will ultimately enter the tournament. It is also helpful if reviewer informs participants of what is allowed and not allowed although it is really up to him to decide (participants should just trust this person).
Here's another suggestion. Do _not_ change your program between rounds. You introduce more bugs than you fix. From someone that has been doing this a _long_ time...
Witnessing an engine play for the whole game is one of the best way to catch obvious bugs and suspect engine behaviour. I was only fixing the obvious. I run the fixed version in another computer for a verification of the fix, while the buggy engine was still playing. I recheck code related to suspect engine behaviour a day after.
I have been playing in computer chess events since 1976. I can guarantee you that more games have been lost by bugs introduced between rounds than for any other single reason. I've not fallen into this trap in 20 years. I do my development somewhat like the Linux (or other) projects. A month or so before a tournament, we freeze new changes. At the 2 week mark, we freeze any tuning or adjustments we are working on. From that point to the tournament, the only changes that get in are those that fix actual bugs that pose a significant risk. As a result, you don't see Crafty crashing, or doing other silly things, due to last-minute changes. Being bug free is just as important as being good...
I think it is even more important to be lucky :-)

Miguel

CThinker
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Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by CThinker » Wed May 11, 2011 6:35 pm

bob wrote:
hgm wrote:How could it be guaranteed that what the participants submit is actually the binary they use?

Would it be an idea to let the organizers pack the submitted binaries into a 'wrapper' that would kibitz some ID tag derived from each move (through an algorithm only know to the organizers)? And then send the thus modified binary back to the user, so he could use it during the tournament?
We've had this discussion within the ICGA investigation. The binary has to be validated during the event by running it on a few positions and comparing the output to the kibitzed scores during the game. Otherwise, as you point out, it would be worthless and could be a binary of anything.
Does Charles have a comparable hardware that the Rybka or Sjeng cluster use? Unless he has, then no real validation will happen.

bob
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by bob » Wed May 11, 2011 6:37 pm

michiguel wrote:
bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
bob wrote:
Ferdy wrote:
CRoberson wrote:The 2011 Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championships is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of July 23/24 2011. It is tentative only to give others a chance to tell me of a serious timing conflict. After looking around the usual tournaments, I couldn't find a conflict.

The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.

I will have the web pages up this week. You can respond here or PM me if you have any questions, comments or requests.
The time control and rules are mostly as they have been. The only change may be that all participants provide a binary of the version entering. This is for tracking purposes and ease of catching clones. I haven't completely decided on that rule yet. It is open for discussion.
I changed binary almost every after game, to adjust time control codes and adjust evaluation values. In this case I have to send everytime I change binary.

Just a suggestion, organizer to request source codes of engines (not necessarily all participants). Commecial engines are optional, good if they submit source codes (understandable product protection). Organizer to identify and inform paticipants of the person who knows the submitted source codes.
One person is probably enough as a source code reviewer (the only person who knows the source code). It is up to the reviwer wether engine will ultimately enter the tournament. It is also helpful if reviewer informs participants of what is allowed and not allowed although it is really up to him to decide (participants should just trust this person).
Here's another suggestion. Do _not_ change your program between rounds. You introduce more bugs than you fix. From someone that has been doing this a _long_ time...
Witnessing an engine play for the whole game is one of the best way to catch obvious bugs and suspect engine behaviour. I was only fixing the obvious. I run the fixed version in another computer for a verification of the fix, while the buggy engine was still playing. I recheck code related to suspect engine behaviour a day after.
I have been playing in computer chess events since 1976. I can guarantee you that more games have been lost by bugs introduced between rounds than for any other single reason. I've not fallen into this trap in 20 years. I do my development somewhat like the Linux (or other) projects. A month or so before a tournament, we freeze new changes. At the 2 week mark, we freeze any tuning or adjustments we are working on. From that point to the tournament, the only changes that get in are those that fix actual bugs that pose a significant risk. As a result, you don't see Crafty crashing, or doing other silly things, due to last-minute changes. Being bug free is just as important as being good...
I think it is even more important to be lucky :-)

Miguel
Most will hate to hear this, but I agree completely. Luck is a key piece of winning any short tournament. :) Where it ranks compared to bug-free is fruit for argument, but it is certainly way up there...

bob
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Fifth Annual ACCA World Computer Rapid Chess Championshi

Post by bob » Wed May 11, 2011 6:39 pm

CThinker wrote:
bob wrote:
hgm wrote:How could it be guaranteed that what the participants submit is actually the binary they use?

Would it be an idea to let the organizers pack the submitted binaries into a 'wrapper' that would kibitz some ID tag derived from each move (through an algorithm only know to the organizers)? And then send the thus modified binary back to the user, so he could use it during the tournament?
We've had this discussion within the ICGA investigation. The binary has to be validated during the event by running it on a few positions and comparing the output to the kibitzed scores during the game. Otherwise, as you point out, it would be worthless and could be a binary of anything.
Does Charles have a comparable hardware that the Rybka or Sjeng cluster use? Unless he has, then no real validation will happen.
You don't need the identical hardware, just the software. One can always adjust the time limit to account for faster hardware... The SMP non-determinism is ever-present, but it doesn't change every move and every score, so it can be dealt with. This has happened in the past, on more than one occasion, in fact...

From where I sit, I doubt Rybka will enter. After all the evidence presented about fruit/crafty/rybka, I doubt it would be accepted. We will see...

IMHO GCP's always welcome. We can deal with his hardware issues...

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