How many "official" Toga projects there is now?

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by Eelco de Groot » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:28 am

George Tsavdaris wrote:
Jouni wrote:I find situation really confusing. We need overview of all developments
under way. I remember to read 2007, that Thomas Gaksch is stopped to
work with Toga, but that's was happily preliminary info. But who has written Cluster Toga and 3.1.2 SE? Is Fruit under development also?
Are programmers working in co-operation?
Yes good questions, i'm confused too about all the situation.
Anyone care to show me a link from this Toga Checkov release? I mean an official one, the latest and the strongest. :D

Toga II 1.4 beta5c, is coming!
Fruit 2.3.x is coming!
Rybka 3.0 is coming!
Deep Fritz 11 is coming!
Hiarcs 12 is coming!
Intel Quad QX9770 is coming.

Great Chess days are coming.... :D

I hope Junior, Chess Tiger, Shredder,Glaurung,Crafty, etc too will arise....
There is no release version yet because I called it a beta and prerelease. :P There were mainly some changes made in the default settings so that you would not have to change the settings yourself, many people do not want to do that. But other than that little was changed in this version, it is just a Beta. It is possible that because of changes in the King Safety in the Beta 4 version (not released, because it is so untested and Beta 3 is being tested by Shaun) this is now too high again but I'm leaving it as it is because I would also like to make some changes in the passed pawn scoring. If I am lucky then maybe I could restore the balance that way because the changes in King Safety also have to do with pawn attacks.

Anyway as you can see the Beta 4 would be too unfinished and Beta 3 is I think very close to just a change of settings. But with WinMerge you can see exactly what was changed and most changes I described elsewhere in some scattered posts.

But the Beta 3 does have an official rating! I did not think that with the increased King Safety, which notwithstanding the risks against a good defending program, will remain the basis of Toga Checkov, it could still perform so well especially against Rybka 2.3.2a, it still scored about 25% !

Denis Mendoza has made several compiles of Beta 3:
http://kirr.homeunix.org/chess/discussi ... f=7&t=2992

And Shaun has published results here:
http://kirr.homeunix.org/chess/discussi ... 77265d7c6c

Regards, Eelco

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Rolf
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Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by Rolf » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:49 am

Eelco de Groot wrote:Toga Checkov, it could still perform so well especially against Rybka 2.3.2a, it still scored about 25% !
I would call it scientific progress! Peace and all included! Against a program that is unchanged for over a year now... Wow! Applause! <sigh>
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

revengeska

Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by revengeska » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:10 pm

Ryan,

What you and Thomas have written in this thread about "clones" and the GPL really needed to be said. I had tried explaining these things earlier on this forum, but I don't have time to deal with morons who like to throw the word clone around constantly when open source ideas are brought into the computer chess field. I just want to let you know that there are actually people(like me) who appreciate what you guys do with open source development. I check these forums once in a while, but I've mostly given up on contribution since there can't be a single thread here where "clones"(and a large number here think open source is as bad as actual clones like Strelka) aren't the topic of choice in one way or another.

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by Eelco de Groot » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:21 pm

Applause for Vas! Considering this was my first attempt are you not happy? Rolf sorry but you are spamming the board these days.

Eelco

Erik Roggenburg

Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by Erik Roggenburg » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:31 pm

Rolf wrote:
Ryan Benitez wrote:
Roman Hartmann wrote: And the thing about GPL you better don't bring up anymore as I remember very well that some people had to explain you what GPL actually means.

Roman
To be fair most of the computer chess community does not understand the GPL. It is very saddening to me that something with such great intent can be looked down on as something so bad by so many. I don't know of any other community that frowns on the GPL the way the computer chess community does.
That is a very premature view at best and totally wrong at worse.

Nobody has anything against such activities if you do it for your own fun and then give it to your friends who then enjoy the gift.

What is fishy is the following: if you dont just do it for your privat fun by using all your class as a young programmer but if you at first create such stuff and thereafter you appear on the public stage and claim having "created" your own program and you wanted now compete with the top notch programs in the CCT and also WCCC. That stinks. Because you are no natural born programmer with your own program but you are someone who took something else that someone else had created and you just tested and tuned it against these models and you hope that you could then surprise the professional stars and their amateur best friends and so that you are a destroyer in a fair sports community. Someone has to speak it out in the end. Of your motives were kosher you wouldnt act in public with so much noise. There are so many honest programmers out there who behave morally well and do not simply take other code and translate it to build their own top program but they work with their own creations and they are proud also if they have no direct success but their status is sober - just take Muller as an example who created almost minimalistic programs who have by definition no chance to compete with success. But he writes it on his own. Muller could also take Fruit and create something else. That should be the role model behavior in our community. But here now we see people who clearly are not illegal, no way, but whose own creativity is nothing against the honest attempts of the over 300 decent hobby programmers. We cant sacrifice the moral of over 300 people against the egotistic rahe of some very few public seeking individuals who prodly praise one another for their new tunes of well known programs.

All this is my personal opinion no more no less. I hadnt written this if only once, besides of Bob, who does open source for decades, the known few would have ever jutified their behavior and showed with arguments why their activities would make sense. They just did it, hoped that they are then tested and they write about their new successes. But they did never justify their habits with regard of the many hundreds of collegues who are so crazy to works night and day on their own creations!
Let's all cheer for brevity!! :roll:

revengeska

Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by revengeska » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:35 pm

Rolf wrote: Nobody has anything against such activities if you do it for your own fun and then give it to your friends who then enjoy the gift.
Do you even ever read these forums? I'm sure a Mr. Christopher Conkie would argue you on that point.

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Rolf
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Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by Rolf » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:21 pm

Eelco de Groot wrote:Applause for Vas! Considering this was my first attempt are you not happy? Rolf sorry but you are spamming the board these days.

Eelco
And to the worse I'm called moron. This is how a community or just a few of its opinion leaders show ethical preference. Against those who dislike lending, taking for free and stealing of other people's code.

You beat me with your hate but only because you dont have reasonable arguments against that what Albert wrote about the stinking situation. But Albert for reasons unknown didnt mean me with his criticism but the highest trademarks in computerchess history. How come?

How come that you speak of Toga, Strelka and Fruit versions all day long but you dont dare to call Famous O, Thomas or Ryan the new true heroes of computerchess. How come? Because it would be a big hoax?

Indeed, Vas had deserved to get a bit more applause and traffic also here in CCC because his success is like magic! But dont buy the original! Wait until the many free versions of tuned programs come out! Computerchess is expensive! 50 € would surpass the credit limit of many indeed.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

ernest
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Re: How many "official" Toga projects there is now

Post by ernest » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:01 pm

Eelco de Groot wrote:Rolf sorry but you are spamming the board these days. Eelco
So true... Must be full moon! :twisted:

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