Animation : Ratings of go players since 1974 !

[Vinvin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRvlyEpOQ-8

It would be nice to have such a video with chess players and chess engines !

[Guenther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRvlyEpOQ-8

It would be nice to have such a video with chess players and chess engines !

Incredible! That Lee Changho was THE giant of Go! If the chart is correct
he went on No. 1 spot at age 15 and stayed there for around 5600 days.
And even better, most of the whole period he had an enormous advantage over place 2 ...

[megamau]

He was indeed the greatest Go player of the past 30 years.
However the rating database does not go back enough in time, considering the long history of Go.

Many people believe that the greatest Go player of all time was Go Seigen.

[Laskos]

He was indeed the greatest Go player of the past 30 years.
However the rating database does not go back enough in time, considering the long history of Go.

Many people believe that the greatest Go player of all time was Go Seigen.

In 3-4 years we will be able to analyze the SGF files of Go Seigen games with engines on smartphones and see his blunders in a matter of seconds.

[whereagles]

Why are those ELO numbers so high in comparison to chess? Do they add a flat +1000 or something?

[yurikvelo]

Why are those ELO numbers so high in comparison to chess? Do they add a flat +1000 or something?

Drawrate (thanks to opening knowledge and possibility of drawish tactics: exchanges, repetitions, agreements) hold ELO distribution so tight. For chess engine to be 3400 against human - mean no single draw in 10 games. It's very hard to avoid draws in chess, and almost impossible to draw in Go.

Rules of Go also are different from Chess rules about white and black pieces.
In chess there is no additional adjudication for black.
White advantage in chess allow weaker players (more ELO distance) to draw against stronger players. To avoid draw, stronger player must overcome not only ELO difference vs opponent, but also overcome additional strength while playing black games.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_ranks_ ... used_in_Go

In the EGF system, points won by the winner almost equal the ones lost by the loser and the maximum points movement is the constant K (from above). However, there is a slight inflationary mechanism built into the ratings adjustment after each game to compensate for the fact that newcomers usually bring fewer points into the pool than they take out with them when they cease active play. Other Elo-flavor ratings such as the AGA, IGS, and DGS systems use maximum likelihood estimation to adjust ratings, so those systems are anchored by prior distributions rather than by attempting to ensure that the gain/loss of ratings is zero sum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_ranks_ ... babilities

In chess you must take some risks to avoid a draw, but the komi system in modern go has rendered draws extremely rare. Draws stem from an institution's ruling on unusual game occurrences, such as Article 12 of the Japanese rules regarding repeating positions; or a tournament's use of integer komi. Also, an average game of Go lasts for 240 moves, compared to 80 in chess, so there are more opportunities for a weaker player to make sub-optimal moves. The ability to transform a small advantage into a win increases with playing strength. Due to this ability, stronger players are more consistent in their results against weaker players and will generally score a higher percentage of wins against opponents at the same rank distance

[megamau]

Many people believe that the greatest Go player of all time was Go Seigen.

In 3-4 years we will be able to analyze the SGF files of Go Seigen games with engines on smartphones and see his blunders in a matter of seconds.

I don't doubt it, but after all "the greatest of all time" does not mean "perfect".
Go Seigen surely made some mistakes in his games, like Carlsen, Kasparov, Capablanca or whoever is your favourite pick for strongest player of all time.

Why are those ELO numbers so high in comparison to chess? Do they add a flat +1000 or something?

In Go there are more "skills levels" than in Chess. Due to complexity and length of a game / absence of draws , the "skill ladder" is longer.
Thus, even with the same ELO implementation, the numbers go further in both direction.

There are quite a few players who have played 5/10 tournaments, but whose elo is less than 200. In chess they would probably be rated around 1000 elo.

I'm 8kyu EGF, which is a rating of approx. 1300, but equivalent to a club player (say 1500) in chess.
It is very difficult (almost impossible) to lose with a player 4 stones weaker than you (400 elo), unless they are strongly improving / sandbagging and their elo does not reflect their true strength.

[Vinvin]

He was indeed the greatest Go player of the past 30 years.
However the rating database does not go back enough in time, considering the long history of Go.

Many people believe that the greatest Go player of all time was Go Seigen.

I just see this page about "BADUK LEGENDS" : http://learnbaduk.com/baduk-legends.html