Best 2012 chess GUI ?

[hgm]

WinBoard Zeta is a graphically enhanced illegal derivative from from an obsolete WinBoard version, and is feature-wise a throwback of almost a decade. It is unlikely that anyone that would actually want to use it (as opposed to just look at it), would think it is any good.

There is no such thing as XBoard Zeta.

I think WinBoard is the best GUI by far, but I would never vote for WinBoard Zeta...

[Ponti]

WinBoard Zeta is a graphically enhanced illegal derivative from from an obsolete WinBoard version, and is feature-wise a throwback of almost a decade. It is unlikely that anyone that would actually want to use it (as opposed to just look at it), would think it is any good.

I didn´t know it was an illegal derivative, if I knew that I would not include it in the poll.

It does look good (graphically), though. What Winboard version does it use? Is it really that bad or buggy?

[hgm]

It is derived from Winboard_x, (2004), but it is modified for use of externally supplied graphics, and book and tablebase support. It is not so much that it is buggy, but that it lacks all features that have been added to the main branch over the years. Such as multi-PV, exclude moves, position search, seek graph, variation board, variation trees. And of course engine management and tournament manager, but it uses external programs for that, which makes it only slightly less convenient.

Sadly it is an infringement on GPL, as it does not come accompanied with the source code, and its author Alex Guerrero has not honored requests by me and others to provide a link to the source code. Nevertheless I was able to equip the latest beta version of the WinBoard main line (4.7.beta) with a similar patch to use external bitmap files for graphics, so that it can use all images in the WinBoard-Zeta package. (See the image in one of my posts above. That patch was very simple, but not worth much without the availability of piece images.)

Although I am not sure there are any other patches in there that are worth incorporating in the main branch, I would like to be able to have a look at them to judge that. (The main branch already supports GUI book in a different way, but the tablebase support could be of interest.)

[Guerrero]

Winboard Zeta is not available officially by me.
Even, i am thinking change its name.
When I do available WZeta in my web page its source code will be included.

WZeta is not done to steal or anything illegal only a fool can say that.
Wzeta is available in Motores Hispanos to provide the user a package for play chess.

Muller critize all about WZeta. He say WZeta is crappy, useless and old as its use of books ctg-abk.
But he seem desperate in obtain its source code for copy my crappy code.

I thought donate to him my bitmaps for xboard/winboard but thanks to your attitude i will not do that.

[hgm]

Winboard Zeta is not available officially by me.

I think you have to clarify that. I surely hope that hiding behind the fact that it is on an anonymous download side in anyway would make it legal to for the one that uploaded it there to not include the sources.

Even, i am thinking change its name.
When I do available WZeta in my web page its source code will be included.

And upto then it is a GPL violation...

The GPL specifies that you have to include the sources with any binary you spread, or at least a working link to those sources. If you don't, you are already on shaky ground, but you can of course get away with it through immediately complying when someone points out your transgression.

Well, my e-mail is h DOT g DOT muller ATSIGN hccnet DOT nl, and you can clear your reputation by sending the sources there, reception of which I will acknowledge in public.

WZeta is not done to steal or anything illegal only a fool can say that.
Wzeta is available in Motores Hispanos to provide the user a package for play chess.

Fact, however, is that to tried to further this noble goal by taking something without paying the price clealy stamped on it. Only a fool would deny that is theft. I would like to see how the police would react when they caught you walking out of a supermarket without paying for the groceries, and you told them that they are fools because "the groceries are only meant as handouts to the poor, and you intend to pay for them later". I think that would give a really funny spectacle, and I have no doubt who would play the role of the fool in it!

Muller critize all about WZeta. He say WZeta is crappy, useless and old as its use of books ctg-abk.
But he seem desperate in obtain its source code for copy my crappy code.

I don't recall having said any such thing. I just expressed my concern about suporting book formats with undisclosed probing algorithms, as naive use of only partially decoded book info can backfire very badly. As indeed WinBoard-Zeta users have reported since then with the use of CTG books, where it played very poor moves from a highly rated book.

And you don't seem to have a point at all: even if I just want your code to have a good laugh, the GPL obliges you to give it.

I thought donate to him my bitmaps for xboard/winboard but thanks to your attitude i will not do that.

And are we expected to believe that now? When I originally suggested I could make a patch in the main WinBoard branch to enable it to also use your graphics, your haste to point out that you would give no permission to distribute them with the standard WinBoard was as endearing as your silence when people asked for the sources was deafening...

Besides, I don't own WinBoard, so it would be pointless to donate anything to me. The Free Software Foundation owns WinBoard, and GNU hosts it as a Savanah project.

[Kyodai]

This is almost funny - or at least carries some humour mixed up with the serious stuff...

Sort of pleasant reading together with some peanuts...

Anyway - I don't really think Herrn Muller is steeling or intends to steel..

How would that look? I mean - he's a Santa Claus

As for using .ctg books in winboard zeta - I tried a book made from games both players >2400 elo.
It takes some manual weeding - i.e. looking at the variant trees - and remove some stupid moves.
Then it works okey for a wide book used f.e. with own games vs engines

[IGarcia]

Even, i am thinking change its name.
When I do available WZeta in my web page its source code will be included.

And upto then it is a GPL violation...

The GPL specifies that you have to include the sources with any binary you spread, or at least a working link to those sources. If you don't, you are already on shaky ground, [...]

He is on shaky ground ... AND WHAT?
What about Fruit / Rybka? Rybka is still possible to be bought and even its not complete clear case, its at least "controversial" software.
What if some ideas in (commercial) Komodo or Houdini where from Stockfish source? (not coping the code, but yes taking the idea), Or in other free engines.

In all cases: Nothing happens!
GPL just don't work.

[hgm]

What if some ideas in (commercial) Komodo or Houdini where from Stockfish source? (not coping the code, but yes taking the idea), Or in other free engines.

The GPL protects code, not ideas. It was intended to protect code, and not ideas. So I don't understand why you say the GPL doesn't work. It was upheld in court in many cases. If Alex persists in his attitude, the FSF might very well decide to sue him, if I would report the violation. They would be more likely to go to court over XBoard than over Fruit, which is just an engine that by todays standards is no longer near the top.

But that is just the legal aspect. It doesn't mean that I cannot expose someone as a thief to the community by pointing out he stole GPL'ed code.

[IGarcia]

What if some ideas in (commercial) Komodo or Houdini where from Stockfish source? (not coping the code, but yes taking the idea), Or in other free engines.

The GPL protects code, not ideas. It was intended to protect code, and not ideas. So I don't understand why you say the GPL doesn't work. It was upheld in court in many cases. If Alex persists in his attitude, the FSF might very well decide to sue him, if I would report the violation. They would be more likely to go to court over XBoard than over Fruit, which is just an engine that by todays standards is no longer near the top.

But that is just the legal aspect. It doesn't mean that I cannot expose someone as a thief to the community by pointing out he stole GPL'ed code.

Why will the FSF go against Wzeta? The Fruit/Rybka case is worst because one is selling GLP code. Wzeta as you pointed is a customized old winboard. It will not put in risk the Win/Xboard proyect.

When you copy the idea not the code form a GPL you know what I mean: its rewriting the algorithm, most of cases just to avoid GPL infringement. In other words, fooling the GLP.

Alex, if im not wrong, its form Mexico, and doing whatever you like with software in Latin America very common, as taking drugs in your country.

[hgm]

Why will the FSF go against Wzeta? The Fruit/Rybka case is worst because one is selling GLP code. Wzeta as you pointed is a customized old winboard. It will not put in risk the Win/Xboard proyect.

The sole purpose of existence of the FSF is to uphold the GPL. In no case they have to expect any financial gains from such action: if they win, the copyright infringer will be forced to release the modified source code, and that is pretty much it. So it is of little importance whether the infringer earns money or not. Selling GPL'ed programs is not in any way against the GPL.

When you copy the idea not the code form a GPL you know what I mean: its rewriting the algorithm, most of cases just to avoid GPL infringement. In other words, fooling the GLP.

I don't see why you consider that 'fooling the GPL'. Algorithms are not covered by copyright. Rewriting is a lot of work, (any conversion that could be done in a automated way would not be recognized as a rewrite, and still fall under the oiginal copyights protection), and it seems reasonable that he who invests that much in it should not be denied the full fruits of his endeavor. Most software does not contain any worthwile novel algorithms. XBoard certainly does not. If you have software that does, and do not want the algorithms to become public domain, you would be a fool to release the sources under GPL.

Alex, if im not wrong, its form Mexico, and doing whatever you like with software in Latin America very common, as taking drugs in your country.

Basically you are saying that we should excuse Alex from acting like a thief, because theft is common in Mexico.

Not that it bears any relevance for this discussion, but FYI: taking drugs here is in fact much less common than in most countries that surround us, exactly because our drug policy makes soft drugs cheaply available, so that it is in nobodies interest to promote drug (ab)use. Do not confuse usage with availability, they are quite distinct quantities.