Hardware Recommendations

[CornfedForever]

Ras,

I don't think anyone would consider Ryzen 5000 'better tech' compared to the i9-12900. Less heat...but that's about all.


https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... 4118vs4086

Even this indicates the 5950x doesn't efficiently leverage all its 16 cores in gaming. Perhaps though what you says is what they refer to in this quote:

" 16 cores are only suitable for professional use cases that have CPU processing needs which cannot be more efficiently met by a GPU or other dedicated hardware."?

[lithander]

I think from an engine developer's perspective the 5950x is the better choice over the i9-12900 but personally I'm just going to wait for Zen4 before considering upgrading from my Ryzen 3600.

[Ras]

I don't think anyone would consider Ryzen 5000 'better tech' compared to the i9-12900. Less heat...but that's about all.

If you don't mind your computer sounding like a jet engine, or going for watercooling with its price tag and hassle, and you also don't mind even more heat in your room during summer time, well that's a lot of tech drawbacks in my eyes. It's Intel cranking up the power draw in a desperate attempt to fool some people on benchmark sites for PR.

userbenchmark.com

... is completely bogus garbage. Nobody takes them seriously in any way, shape, or form. More details on why, with background and source links: https://ownsnap.com/userbenchmark-biased/

Even this indicates the 5950x doesn't efficiently leverage all its 16 cores in gaming.

More cores don't have advantages if the software doesn't utilize them, such as games? Well, yeah... that's obvious. However, many chess engines and also chess engine tournaments do.

[CornfedForever]

I don't think anyone would consider Ryzen 5000 'better tech' compared to the i9-12900. Less heat...but that's about all.

If you don't mind your computer sounding like a jet engine, or going for watercooling with its price tag and hassle, and you also don't mind even more heat in your room during summer time, well that's a lot of tech drawbacks in my eyes. It's Intel cranking up the power draw in a desperate attempt to fool some people on benchmark sites for PR.

userbenchmark.com

... is completely bogus garbage. Nobody takes them seriously in any way, shape, or form. More details on why, with background and source links: https://ownsnap.com/userbenchmark-biased/

Even this indicates the 5950x doesn't efficiently leverage all its 16 cores in gaming.

More cores don't have advantages if the software doesn't utilize them, such as games? Well, yeah... that's obvious. However, many chess engines and also chess engine tournaments do.

I hate to say it since in the middle of all this you 'may' have a valid point here or there...but more and more you are sounding like a 'crank' Intel hater and the added words and blanket dismissal about userbencmark.com add to that.

How you say things is your choice of course, but it causes one to throw a heap of salt all over it.

[Ras]

but more and more you are sounding like a 'crank' Intel hater

I gave solid arguments why Intel is inferior for now, and you didn't refute any.

and the added words and blanket dismissal about userbencmark.com

I also gave a source link in case you're interested in background and details. Which you are obviously not, and instead try to derail the discussion - which I have no interest in, so I'm out on that one.

[CornfedForever]

but more and more you are sounding like a 'crank' Intel hater

I gave solid arguments why Intel is inferior for now, and you didn't refute any.

and the added words and blanket dismissal about userbencmark.com

I also gave a source link in case you're interested in background and details. Which you are obviously not, and instead try to derail the discussion - which I have no interest in, so I'm out on that one.

Look man, I'm not out to 'debate' or 'refute', don't get all bent out of shape. I am just pointing out how it looks.

I'm not at all saying your wrong about 'heat'...but can't tell from what you have said how a Ryzen 5000 is 'better tech' compared to the i9-12900x.

Oh, that "Own Snap' link...the guy who wrote the article, practically every word out of his mouth about AMD is preceded by such words as: 'Unrivaled', 'groundbreaking', 'raging', 'revolution'....and in every sentence where Intel is mentioned, 'outdated', 'ineffective', 'major woes', "putting the nail into Intel's Coffin" so he is kind of hard to take seriously.

Frankly, if I want good, objective talk about CPU's - Intel or AMD - I am going to turn to some place like Tomshardware.com instead of some crusader like he appears to be.

They however do not 'do chess'...and thus my asking a question here.

When we talk of chess and computers here it can be about different things. People who like their engine tournaments. People who like to hide behind engines and play others doing the same. People who like to analyse with them. I fall only into the final camp....but am struggling like others with how one CPU can apparently be so much better for...lets say, letting a couple of engines run all night, chewing away on various game positions in a deep way to look for new ideas.

[smatovic]

[...]
When we talk of chess and computers here it can be about different things. People who like their engine tournaments. People who like to hide behind engines and play others doing the same. People who like to analyse with them. I fall only into the final camp....but am struggling like others with how one CPU can apparently be so much better for...lets say, letting a couple of engines run all night, chewing away on various game positions in a deep way to look for new ideas.

You are right, there are many use cases for CPUs in computer chess, but this is the programmers subforum, and obv. no one recommended Apple M1 or Rapsberry Pi in this thread for example, which does not mean these are bad CPUs per se. In the specific case of Intel Alder Lake, it is questionable if the Efficient Cores are of any use for chess engine programming.

--
Srdja

[Sopel]

GPUs are borderline useless (especially given current prices) unless you really value lc0 analysis. 128GB of ram is handy, engines can eat everything and caching syzygy is a practical issue otherwise. The best cpu you can find is ryzen 5950x, then it gets ridiculously expensive. 12900k is worse (http://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd--int ... ckfish.php), eats more power, and is more expensive. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CMd4Nc should be a good start

[dangi12012]

GPUs are borderline useless (especially given current prices) unless you really value lc0 analysis. 128GB of ram is handy, engines can eat everything and caching syzygy is a practical issue otherwise. The best cpu you can find is ryzen 5950x, then it gets ridiculously expensive. 12900k is worse (http://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd--int ... ckfish.php), eats more power, and is more expensive. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CMd4Nc should be a good start

Sopel never disappoints. Known Forum Troll around here...
Sends you a 5950X with a B450 Board where you can either enjoy the burned smell of VRMs and see extreme performance reductions compared to a good motherboard with a descent vrm. Also 3200Mhz is bad. Go for 3600 or wait for Zen4.

He probably wants to set your house on fire....

Also he obviously TROLLS on gpu prices since they are all below MSRP right now because the Crypto market imploded.
Does he know that? Probably. Does he give bad advice on purpouse? Definitely - just ignore that guy - like I try to do (and sometimes I fail).

[Ras]

a B450 Board where you can either enjoy the burned smell of VRMs

Asus specifically upgraded the VRMs in that Gaming II board. I have the earlier revision, the Gaming non-II, and for that,you'd be correct that the VRMs aren't up for such a CPU. The Gaming II is OK for that unless you want to do extreme overclocking. B550 would also offer PCIe 4.0, but the advantage is small - unless you use a total garbage GPU like 6500 XT that AMD crippled with only 4 PCIe lanes.