Hispanic chess engines + Winboard Zeta Pack number 18

[pedrox]

I think that WinBoard-Alien may be violating section 5 and 6(d) of the GPL, but I freely admit that I am not certain.

I find no difference to Winboard Zeta, in the download you have a single file with no license or no reference to the source code.

Winboard Zeta does not agree to the GPL license, but these beta versions of HG neither do.

If we want to be strict with the licenses, then so should we do with all.

[IGarcia]

Is the source code of WinBoard Zeta now included with this package? Or is it still a violation of the GPL?

[moderation]
Yes, please: we take licenses very seriously on Talkchess. If you advertise for a product it has to be 100% legit.

this same type of serious attitude need to be applied on other topics
(Rybka, houdini, robbodini, and many many other engines). If we can talk about controversial engines, why not allow talk about controversial "gui".

This has nothing to do with talking, it has to do with providing or not software that may or may not be breaking laws (directly affecting the work of a member). This is not allowed in the charter, and we never allowed it. Whenever we have detected it or some one filed a complained, we tried to comply. And BTW, I do not think we ever allowed a link to Robodini. In those cases, we delete the links, we have done countless of times in similar situation when we were sure it was illegal. It is good thing you have not seen those, it means we were quick.

Moderators need common sense and avoid double standard as with religion topics.

Even if winboard Z is offside GPL, there are (for me) some good points:

- Its free and does not look to become a commercial
- Offers a customized gui with a selected group of engines.
- All the "parts" are free/gpl, available on the web.

You can build your own winboard Z if you decide to take the time and get the engines and customizations.

Irrelevant if it breaks the GPL.

Miguel

I agree you not allow links, but you do allow a lot of talk about outside the rules software, just an example: a tournament between an "abobination" robodini and a "controversial" Houdini.

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... t&start=10

So, to keep coherence ask to not post links to winboard Z, but let them announce and talk about new features etc.. Any with a minimum knowledge will know how to google for the links.

Miguel, for me is irrelevant your comment about my opinion of what I like, and has nothing to do with GPL.

[pedrox]

Is the source code of WinBoard Zeta now included with this package? Or is it still a violation of the GPL?

[moderation]
Yes, please: we take licenses very seriously on Talkchess. If you advertise for a product it has to be 100% legit.

this same type of serious attitude need to be applied on other topics
(Rybka, houdini, robbodini, and many many other engines). If we can talk about controversial engines, why not allow talk about controversial "gui".

Moderators need common sense and avoid double standard as with religion topics.

Even if winboard Z is offside GPL, there are (for me) some good points:

- Its free and does not look to become a commercial
- Offers a customized gui with a selected group of engines.
- All the "parts" are free/gpl, available on the web.

You can build your own winboard Z if you decide to take the time and get the engines and customizations.

Hi Ignacio.

Thank you for your words, but I do not want Winboard Zeta is out of the GPL. I'll include the GPL and I'll provide a link to the source code when I have it available.

At the moment the package is not available until that is resolved.

But I agree that the forum there is always a double standard.

I forgot to copy a file GPL along with the executable Winboard and I thought it was not necessary to have available a link to the code since no one would ask.

But I will be a pirate for providing this pack and HG that does the same with the beta versions of Winboard be a contributor honorable.

[IGarcia]

- All the "parts" are free/gpl, available on the web.

You can build your own winboard Z if you decide to take the time and get the engines and customizations.

This is in fact not true, which is exactly the point. WinBoard Zeta is a modified version (a fork) of WinBoard, and the source code of the modifications is not available to anyone. This unavailability is what makes it a GPL violation.

Why is not true?: If you get all the gpl programs (parts) and you work hard editing and doing modifications you can get some "similar" to his winboard Z. In fact, you have done. I remember you made modifications to your original winboard inspired in some winboard z customizations....

It is not that I want to suppressbution of WinBoard Zeta, on the contrary. I encourage improvements, irrespective of who made them. What I want is the source code, so that I can judge which parts are suitable for incorporation of the master branch. But Alex Guerrero has shown on several occasions that he sees the GNU version as a competitor, and he wants to obstruct its development as much as possible. So he does want to prevent incorporation of his patches in the main branch.

This is not an oversight. It is a willful violation of the GPL, for purposes contrary to its spirit!

You are right about he is wrong. But how to know what are the real reasons about not giving the sources?

Maybe he just renegade, maybe his code is not bad but he thinks its ugly and does like to share... he is from Mexico, maybe he thinks an European like you do not have to worry about a gpl thing when Europeans have been stealing our continent for centuries.

The point is there can be lots of reasons. Your software (free available) will exist for many years, even when you pass away and his... will disappear.

[pedrox]

I do think he has said that it not will provide the code to those who need them.

I meant:

I do think he has said that it will provide the code to those who need them

The problem is that he is lying about this. I did ask him for the source code many months ago, and have not received anything yet.

So it seems he is in fact an ordinary code thief, trying to cover up his status by telling lies to people that have no need for the source code...

I hope this is true and that you've asked for a copy of the code in private since I have not seen you've done in public.

I guess Alex will read your message and he will answer you, since I can not know if it's true or a lie.

But there are ways of saying things and asking, you could have spoken directly to me instead of making an accusation.

And I've shown in this thread that you have done exactly the same of what you're complaining.

[michiguel]

I do think he has said that it not will provide the code to those who need them.

I meant:

I do think he has said that it will provide the code to those who need them

The problem is that he is lying about this. I did ask him for the source code many months ago, and have not received anything yet.

So it seems he is in fact an ordinary code thief, trying to cover up his status by telling lies to people that have no need for the source code...

I hope this is true and that you've asked for a copy of the code in private since I have not seen you've done in public.

I just searched AG posts. HGM asked eight months ago:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... ht=#501075

"Well, my e-mail is h DOT g DOT muller ATSIGN hccnet DOT nl, and you can clear your reputation by sending the sources there, reception of which I will acknowledge in public."

Miguel

I guess Alex will read your message and he will answer you, since I can not know if it's true or a lie.

But there are ways of saying things and asking, you could have spoken directly to me instead of making an accusation.

And I've shown in this thread that you have done exactly the same of what you're complaining.

[pedrox]

I do think he has said that it not will provide the code to those who need them.

I meant:

I do think he has said that it will provide the code to those who need them

The problem is that he is lying about this. I did ask him for the source code many months ago, and have not received anything yet.

So it seems he is in fact an ordinary code thief, trying to cover up his status by telling lies to people that have no need for the source code...

I hope this is true and that you've asked for a copy of the code in private since I have not seen you've done in public.

I just searched AG posts. HGM asked eight months ago:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... ht=#501075

"Well, my e-mail is h DOT g DOT muller ATSIGN hccnet DOT nl, and you can clear your reputation by sending the sources there, reception of which I will acknowledge in public."

Miguel

I guess Alex will read your message and he will answer you, since I can not know if it's true or a lie.

But there are ways of saying things and asking, you could have spoken directly to me instead of making an accusation.

And I've shown in this thread that you have done exactly the same of what you're complaining.

Well, I had not read before this thread.

But into the thread we can see the reasons because Alex might have to hide the code. He has to listen to HG said that his code is buggy and immediately asked to be sent.

But when HG give his e-mail you do not see a response from Alex, you do not know if Alex has been reading the thread or not.

On the other hand I can say that if I know that I can not provide the source code for Winboard Zeta, then I would not have included in the pack the GUI, because I do not want to break the Winboard GPL.

[hgm]

Indeed, he plays deaf and dumb as soon as anyone asks for that source code. He posted in that thread, so he was well aware of the issue. It is a GPL violation in the first place to not package the source (or a link to it) with the modified executable, but you can get away with it if you take utmost care to make sure that you supply the source instantly to anyone that asks. If you are not willing to take that care, but rather be free to walk out of any discussion about it at any time you like, you should have not brought that obligation on yourself by not providing the source code unrequested (i.e. only by request of the GPL)

Whether he likes to give it to me, has reasons for not wanting to give it to me, dislikes me, or feels he has good reason to dislike me and thinks that others should dislike me too, is all utterly irrelevant. The GPL does not state that you should only provide source code on request to people that you like and are nice to you. It states that you should make it public. Attaching conditions that others should behave nice to you is exactly what the GPL explicitly says you cannot do. You have to render the source code unconditionally, or you are violating the copyrights.

[hgm]

- All the "parts" are free/gpl, available on the web.

You can build your own winboard Z if you decide to take the time and get the engines and customizations.

This is in fact not true, which is exactly the point. WinBoard Zeta is a modified version (a fork) of WinBoard, and the source code of the modifications is not available to anyone. This unavailability is what makes it a GPL violation.

Why is not true?: If you get all the gpl programs (parts) and you work hard editing and doing modifications you can get some "similar" to his winboard Z. In fact, you have done. I remember you made modifications to your original winboard inspired in some winboard z customizations....

When you say 'build' I assumed you mean 'compile and link'. It seems now that you meant 'write similar software yourself'. Well, sorry to say it, but that seems a rather ridiculous stance. Would it be OK if I rob a bank and use the money to buy a Ferrari, because other can buy a Ferrari too if they put in enough money of their own? Get real!

[IGarcia]

- All the "parts" are free/gpl, available on the web.

You can build your own winboard Z if you decide to take the time and get the engines and customizations.

This is in fact not true, which is exactly the point. WinBoard Zeta is a modified version (a fork) of WinBoard, and the source code of the modifications is not available to anyone. This unavailability is what makes it a GPL violation.

Why is not true?: If you get all the gpl programs (parts) and you work hard editing and doing modifications you can get some "similar" to his winboard Z. In fact, you have done. I remember you made modifications to your original winboard inspired in some winboard z customizations....

When you say 'build' I assumed you mean 'compile and link'. It seems now that you meant 'write similar software yourself'. Well, sorry to say it, but that seems a rather ridiculous stance. Would it be OK if I rob a bank and use the money to buy a Ferrari, because other can buy a Ferrari too if they put in enough money of their own? Get real!

If you take many sources of something (say information) and you put all together (say a book) you have your rights for the work it took. In this case because the sources (gui and engines) are gpl or freeware he has to do something "else" he is not doing. Why? I dont know.

Its not comparable to a bank robbery and ferraris.

I see all this like the Jim Abblet Linux distros. He use many, if not all, gpl. He gives it for free and I will not look if he is 100% inside gpl on every package he has customized for the linux chess bundle. Not even looked if there are sources, just enjoy it.

If there is something wrong with Abblet linux distros why come here asking sources, links removal, etc... sorry but its a nonsense. If i do not agree/like I will silently stop using it. I will not recommend it, but i will not come here to complain. I, personally, see he still deserves respect for his work.