Wrong draw claim by Naum 4.2 ?

[UncombedCoconut]

It can even yell insults at the opponent, the GUI, or people trolling on the CCC. The poor GUI, if it wants to adhere to the protocol, has to silently endure all this without complaining.

This would be a great feature for an unofficial build of Stockfish. Boasting, cursing, or "my opponent got lucky" on first GTB hit or known outcome at the root; trash talking after a >100 cp blunder; and, finally, "why did this stupid GUI set the en passant target?" Maybe it could come with a UCI option to send those as "info string" -- do many GUIs make those visible to the user?

[Matthias Gemuh]

Hi Matthias,

I think that the GUI should ignore here the draw claim because Naum is loaded as UCI Engine and therefor this is just a protocol violation. But if Naum loses this on time it should be a loss, definitely. After all it's a bug and you should be treated for a bug. If Naum would act here as a WinBoard engine this would be a wrong result claim and therefor imediately lost. I don't think that GUIs should try to interpret output that isn't part of the protocol.

Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I will let the GUI operator decide. It is his time that may get wasted if GUI ignores an "UCI" draw claim and engine burns an hour or more without playing a move.
I lost count of UCI engines that claim draws, should be about 5 (without counting their various releases/versions).

Matthias.

[Matthias Gemuh]

I don't know how to insert a diagram, but i was wondering if naum sees in this study by herbstmann a draw or a win

[d]8/8/7q/8/1Q2Nk2/5p2/8/3bK1b1 w - - 0 0

the solution of the study is:
1Nd6+ Kg3 2Nf5+ Kg2 3Qg4+ Kh1 4Nxh6 f2+ 5Kf1 Bxg4 6Nxg4 Bh2 7Nxf2#

[Matthias Gemuh]

BTW, do you guys know that some UCI engines resign ?

[michiguel]

Of course another question is if the engine should be penalized for protocol violation, even if the claim had been correct (e.g. third repetition). In WB this issue does not come up, as it never deals directly with UCI engines. But from what Tord says I guess that a protocol violation cn only manifest itself in a time loss.

Not necessarily. It could also manifest itself in a crash, or something like "bestmove 0000" instead of a real move, or "bestmove a3a4" where a3a4 is not a legal move. But because of the line from the protocol definition I quoted in my first post in this thread, the GUI has no right to penalize the engine for anything it sends that isn't a UCI command. The engine can print draw claims, resignations, or debug output. It can even yell insults at the opponent, the GUI, or people trolling on the CCC. The poor GUI, if it wants to adhere to the protocol, has to silently endure all this without complaining.

Exactly, a hole in the specifications, which could have been easily covered by saying that sending those will trigger an "unspecified behavior". It is not a good idea that the protocol allows the engine to spam the GUI. Of course, the GUI could be tolerant by choice, not by force.

Miguel

[Martin Thoresen]

Matthias & others,

Here's the answer from Alex Naumov:

Hi Martin,

Yes. Naum will claim a draw if both sides have only a minor piece left.
It's a bug.

Regards,
Alex

Best,
Martin[/quote]

[Matthias Gemuh]

Matthias & others,

Here's the answer from Alex Naumov:

Hi Martin,

Yes. Naum will claim a draw if both sides have only a minor piece left.
It's a bug.

Regards,
Alex

Best,
Martin

[/quote]

OK, thanks.

[wolfv]

8/8/8/8/8/8/5N1b/5K1k b - - 0 1


Naum sees this position as mate in one and evaluates it correctly. When asked to move it moves Nxf2 and displays 'computer wins' (depth 3 +299.99, time 0:00.00, Nxf2+).


This was native Linux Naum 4.2, running as an xboard engine.

[Matthias Gemuh]

[d]8/8/8/8/8/8/5N1b/5K1k b - - 0 1


Naum sees this position as mate in one and evaluates it correctly. When asked to move it moves Nxf2 and displays 'computer wins' (depth 3 +299.99, time 0:00.00, Nxf2+).


This was native Linux Naum 4.2, running as an xboard engine.

[wolfv]

Thank you for your effort, Mr. Gemuh. Thought everyone could see the ensuing position in their minds easily. Mea culpa.