On.. A Day In The Life Of the Hardcore Collector

[Steve B]

i cranked up the CM 9K and chose the Turk personality with pondering OFF as the opponent for the Splice and CC7

both computers had the dark pieces and were set to level 7 which is 3 minutes per move
the Turk was set to 5 seconds per move


[White "Turk #2"]
[Black "Splice/CC7"]
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3
[d] rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/3P4/5N2/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 2
both computers are already out of book
here the Splice plays 2..Qd6 and the CC7 2..Nf6
however both computers have the ability to randomize their play which cannot be turned off by the user
so i replayed the move for the Splice and it does choose 2..Nf6

play continued..

3.c4 dxc4 4.e3 Be6 5.Nbd2 b5 6.Be2

[d] rn1qkb1r/p1p1pppp/4bn2/1p6/2pP4/4PN2/PP1NBPPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 6

here the Splice chooses 6..Qd5 and the CC7 6..Nc6
this time i replayed the move on the CC7 and it does play 6..Qd5
so more random play..

game continues..
7.Ne5

[d] rn2kb1r/p1p1pppp/4bn2/1p1qN3/2pP4/4P3/PP1NBPPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 7

here the Splice play 7..Qxg2 and the CC7 7..Nc6

i replayed the moves for both computers several times
both computers will not vary their moves in this position
they are not playing the same moves and i must conclude they are not exactly the same
i dont know if its the hardware(as Matt Hull suggested) or the program

i suspect that the Splice is probably stronger then the CC7

next up is a small 3 game match between the two at level three which is about 80 seconds per move
while i realize 3 games does not prove much.. if the score is lopsided i think we can say that the Splice is stronger

Startled Regards
Steve

[mhull]

i cranked up the CM 9K and chose the Turk personality with pondering OFF as the opponent for the Splice and CC7

both computers had the dark pieces and were set to level 7 which is 3 minutes per move
the Turk was set to 5 seconds per move


[White "Turk #2"]
[Black "Splice/CC7"]
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3
[d] rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/3P4/5N2/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 2
both computers are already out of book
here the Splice plays 2..Qd6 and the CC7 2..Nf6
however both computers have the ability to randomize their play which cannot be turned off by the user
so i replayed the move for the Splice and it does choose 2..Nf6

play continued..

3.c4 dxc4 4.e3 Be6 5.Nbd2 b5 6.Be2

[d] rn1qkb1r/p1p1pppp/4bn2/1p6/2pP4/4PN2/PP1NBPPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 6

here the Splice chooses 6..Qd5 and the CC7 6..Nc6
this time i replayed the move on the CC7 and it does play 6..Qd5
so more random play..

game continues..
7.Ne5

[d] rn2kb1r/p1p1pppp/4bn2/1p1qN3/2pP4/4P3/PP1NBPPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 7

here the Splice play 7..Qxg2 and the CC7 7..Nc6

i replayed the moves for both computers several times
both computers will not vary their moves in this position
they are not playing the same moves and i must conclude they are not exactly the same
i dont know if its the hardware(as Matt Hull suggested) or the program

i suspect that the Splice is probably stronger then the CC7

next up is a small 3 game match between the two at level three which is about 80 seconds per move
while i realize 3 games does not prove much.. if the score is lopsided i think we can say that the Splice is stronger

Startled Regards
Steve

Interesting experiment, Steve. I look forward to the match results.

[Steve B]

Game one had the Splice with Black
both computers were out of book after move four

[White "Fidelity CC7"]
[Black "Splice Byte XD 300"]
[Time Control "80 Sec. Per Move"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Nxd5 Be7 7.Bxf6 Nxf6
8.Nxf6+ gxf6 9.e3 Qd6 10.Qb3 b6 11.Bc4 Be6 12.Nf3 O-O-O 13.O-O Rhg8
14.Rad1 Bxc4 15.Qxc4 Rg7 16.d5 Rdg8 17.g3 Rg4 18.Qc2 R8g6 19.h3 Rb4
20.a3 Rb5 21.Qf5+ Qd7 22.e4 Rb3 23.Kh2 Bd6 24.Rd2 a5
25.Nd4 Bxg3+ 26.Kh1
[d] 2k5/2pq1p1p/1p3pr1/p2P1Q2/3NP3/Pr4bP/1P1R1P2/5R1K b - - 0

a bizarre position
every one of blacks pieces are under attack

26.. a4 27.Nxb3 Bf4 28.Rd3 Qxf5 29.exf5 Rg8 30.Nd2 Bxd2
31.Rxd2 Rg5 32.d6 cxd6 33.Rxd6 Rxf5 34.Rc1+ Kb8 35.Rd8+ Kb7 36.Kg2 Rg5+ 37.Kf3 Ka6 38.Rd4 Ra5 39.Rc7 h5 40.Rf4 Rc5 41.Rxf7 Kb5 42.Rb4+ Ka6 43.Rxf6 Re5 44.Rbxb6+ Ka5 45.b3 axb3 46.Rxb3 Ka4 47.Rfb6 Rf5+ 48.Ke2 Ka5 49.R6b4 Rc5 50.Ke3 Ka6 51.h4 Re5+ 52.Kd4 Rf5 53.Ra4+ Ra5 54.Rbb4 Rxa4 55.Rxa4+ Kb6

FINAL POSITION
[d] 8/8/1k6/7p/R2K3P/P7/5P2/8 w - - 0 56

i called the game for the CC7 who is up a R+2p...even i could win this

well there goes my theory that the Splice is stronger

Game 2 next Regards
Steve

[Larry]

Hi Steve, I've enjoyed following this thread, and I'm not sure it's
mental telepathy, but just yesterday I did a pretty much exact
experiment with two Fidelity9's. This without having seen this thread.
Both are the early 1.5mhz machines, I checked with a simple mate
in 3 position and they took the exact time, as opposed to the later
1.6mhz, and of course the later still 2mhz 'B'.
I used as an opponent for them Novag's equivalent machine, ie,
the standard 2mhz Constellation, which is known to be slightly
stronger on any level.
To avoid one Fid9 getting more thinking time I put them both
on 'Easy' mode, which is of course 'Ponder Off'. They were on 30
secs/ move. When I keyed in the moves I was careful to press them
both at the exact moment. I had <DM>, for 'Display Move' on during
the games so I could see the current moves being considered.
Anyway, the two Fid9's were some distance apart on the production
run, as indicated by their serial numbers. One started with '21...' and
the other started with '23...'. The serial numbers have 7 or 8 digits
so the machines may have been made 6 months apart. The two
machines made the exact moves for some time, perhaps a half dozen moves, then something strange happened. The higher serial number
machine made a couple of moves instantly as if it were still in book,
but in fact for the several previous moves both machines had been
thinking about their next move. The other machine, ie, the lower
serial number one, spent time thinking and insisted on a different
move.
This led me to believe that the later machines had the ability to
go back into a book line after the earlier book had run out, but when
moves transposed back into a book line. The earlier machine, once
out of book, no longer referenced the book.
Later in the game also, the machines occasionally made a different
move, but this can be attributed to one machine having more time
up it's sleeve by getting back into book earlier.

I know that with the Scysis Turbostar432 it seems to look for a
book opening move including in the endgame. I reached this conclusion
when I noticed the non-KSO version, with a vastly smaller opening
book, solves problems consistently slightly faster than the KSO, whose
opening book is 4 times as big.
You said the two machines you tested seemed to have identical
opening books. Possibly the later machine had it's parameters changed,
ie, it's piece/pawn relationships altered by the programmer, which is
probably quite simple to do.
telepathic regards
Larry

[Steve B]

You said the two machines you tested seemed to have identical
opening books. Possibly the later machine had it's parameters changed,
ie, it's piece/pawn relationships altered by the programmer, which is
probably quite simple to do.
telepathic regards
Larry

Hi Larry
thanks for that info on the differences between SC9 versions
also highly interesting is the Fidelity serial number information
not sure which post you are referring to where you mention i said the books are the same?
are you are referring to the Splice/ CC7 games?
scrolling backwards to check regards
Steve

[Larry]

Oh, sorry, forgot to mention. It was the Miami/Chess Explorer
comparison I was referring to.
all the best
Larry

[Steve B]

Oh, sorry, forgot to mention. It was the Miami/Chess Explorer
comparison I was referring to.
all the best
Larry

ah ok
yes i imagine Morsch could have tweaked a few things ,,either way it does show the two are not exactly the same

i have a theory about this Splice computer which coincides with your point about how some dedicated's can be released with basically the same engines but with slightly tweaked algorithms

legend has it that Fidelity Released a Chess Challenger Super 7 but only in Germany
afaik ..there is no collector that has ever actually seen one or owns one
i do have a German brochure for it though and it mentions the Super 7 had an improved engine over the regular CC7

again i am not sure the Super 7 was ever actually released but perhaps..just perhaps ..the tweaked engine found its way to Brazil and into the XD 300?

Bloviating Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

the second game ended in a win for the Splice as White
sadly i somehow managed to lose the pgn file and did not save it
sigh..
so this would bring the score to 1-1 and a third game no matter who won would not result in a conclusive enough result of the match for me to opine on which computer is stronger..this would take many more games and not the point of my testing

i did find however yet another difference between the two computers
the Splice allows the computer to play itself by repeated pressing of the EN key while to do this in the CC7 one needs to press both the DM key and then the PB key
yet even more evidence that we do not have exact clones here...

Case Closed Regards
Steve

[mhull]

the second game ended in a win for the Splice as White
sadly i somehow managed to lose the pgn file and did not save it
sigh..
so this would bring the score to 1-1 and a third game no matter who won would not result in a conclusive enough result of the match for me to opine on which computer is stronger..this would take many more games and not the point of my testing

i did find however yet another difference between the two computers
the Splice allows the computer to play itself by repeated pressing of the EN key while to do this in the CC7 one needs to press both the DM key and then the PB key
yet even more evidence that we do not have exact clones here...

Case Closed Regards
Steve

IIRC, I had taken my CC7 apart once to see the guts, and then put it back together with no ill effects.

If it weren't too shocking a suggestion, it might be interesting the share the motherboard of the Splice by means of a nice, tripod-mounted, well-focused, macro-lens, digital photo to compare with the same shot from the CC7. I'm sure some of the chip wizards here could tell us the significance of any differences seen.

[Steve B]

If it weren't too shocking a suggestion, it might be interesting the share the motherboard of the Splice by means of a nice, tripod-mounted, well-focused, macro-lens, digital photo to compare with the same shot from the CC7. I'm sure some of the chip wizards here could tell us the significance of any differences seen.

its one thing Matt to smash apart a $15 Run-o-the-Mill CC7
but it is a different thing entirely to pry open an immeasurably rare..perhaps no more then a dozen in existence today.. Splice Byte


i will say this about the name..
the XD 300 was made by a company called Splice Industria Brasileira and they specialized in electronics and computers.so perhaps its just the name they gave it

now if you will excuse me ..i am taking a shot of hard liquor to calm my nerves at that suggestion

Disheveled Regards
Steve