Strelka cannot see mate in 1

[Ovyron]

I feel this issue is more ethical than legal.

[T Barack]

The illegal clone is allowed in ccc?Where is the moderator?

[Uri Blass]

LIMITATIONS ON REVERSE ENGINEERING, DECOMPILATION, AND DISASSEMBLY. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.


It's wise to obey the right law. I hereby declare I support this law. And the law should be obeyed by all of us.

U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All Software provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial license rights and restrictions described elsewhere herein. All Software provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with "Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227 -14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988), as applicable.

Note that such activity is expressly permitted by vasik rajlik who allowed to use rybka beta with no restriction.
Maybe he did not mean it but this is the logical meaning of no restriction.

I am not sure about the law but I think that the law should permit it because of the words of Vasik.

Uri

[Uri Blass]

Of course Strelka is a legal engine, you can download it and play with it and you will have no problem with the law as a result.

There is a lot of information on how it's done Strelka, so everyone can consider whether it is a clone or not, at least until there is a complait and a ruling by a judge.

Talking about a murder does not make one a murderer, and in CCC you are or you should be to able to speak freely of what you want, always you not break the rules of the forum.

I agree, totally. But someone else would not. They still consider Strelka as a illegal clone and the clone engine will break the rules of the forum, right ?

Discussions about strelka are allowed in the rybka forum and if Vasik is not against these discussion then I see no reason to delete them here.

Uri

[T Barack]

We respect you, but you are not the "moderator",right?

Still the same question to the "moderator": The illegal clone is allowed in ccc?

[ozziejoe]

please uri, this is clearly unethical behaviour, and vas has expressed this view in numerous posts on rybka forum. The "author" of strelka stole stuff from vas (even if he stayed just beyond prosecution).


To say vas "permits" this stealing of his hard work is absurd. He has no choice, since the code was decompiled without his permision. the program is out there already, and he is just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I think it does the computer chess community a diservice to reinforce unethical behaviour (e.g., by treating clones as if they are legitimate engines). I would prefer the header of this thread to read as follows: "Rybka (version strelka) can not see mate in 1"

best
J

[Graham Banks]

We respect you, but you are not the "moderator",right?

Still the same question to the "moderator": The illegal clone is allowed in ccc?

There is a moderation team.
Discussions about Strelka are not against the charter, but we will not allow links to illegal clones.
This has been stated before.

[Uri Blass]

please uri, this is clearly unethical behaviour, and vas has expressed this view in numerous posts on rybka forum. The "author" of strelka stole stuff from vas (even if he stayed just beyond prosecution).


To say vas "permits" this stealing of his hard work is absurd. He has no choice, since the code was decompiled without his permision. the program is out there already, and he is just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I think it does the computer chess community a diservice to reinforce unethical behaviour (e.g., by treating clones as if they are legitimate engines). I would prefer the header of this thread to read as follows: "Rybka (version strelka) can not see mate in 1"

best
J

He clearly had a choice.

He could decide not to allow to use rybka with no restriction.
He could say that he allow distributing the exe file of rybka beta with no restrictions without writing that he allows to use rybka beta with no restriction.

He also had a choice not to allow discussions about strelka or links for strelka in his forum by telling moderators to delete them but he did not do it.

There is even a direct link to download strelka in the rybka forum

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... l?tid=2995

Vasik responded to the link and did not ask the moderators to delete it so my understanding is that downloading strelka is allowed from Vasik's point of view.

Vasik clearly had a choice to ask the moderators to delete the link.
He did not do it.

I see no reason for people to defend Vas more than Vas defend himself
If Vas takes no actions against links to download strelka in his forum then
I think that he allows downloading strelka.

He may say that he did not allow releasing strelka in the first place but after releasing strelka he has no objection that people download it as his actions prove

Uri

[Tony Thomas]

We respect you, but you are not the "moderator",right?

Still the same question to the "moderator": The illegal clone is allowed in ccc?

What's up, where is Ben Lau? None of our moderators have eye problems, so try posting in a smaller font. You are mad that no one lets your buddy (or you) post about an engine named Hussle or sCoffield??

[ozziejoe]

I think vas was sort of screwed and made the best of a bad situation. Strelka was going to be distributed no matter what, so why oppose it. Vas said that strelka was way behind the current version of rybka anyway...So Vas did not do more to oppose strelka because there was little practical value in opposing it.


This does not mean that the whole strelka thing is ethical. You can not determine how ethical it is by looking at vas' rather pragmatic behaviour. Uri, it is like you are trying to make the following arguement: "if vas does not strongly oppose the distrubtion or discussion of strelka, then the decompiling of strelka was ethical." This argument is simply not true.

There is hardly any money in chess programing and I am sure it is hard work. I think it is wrong for another programmer to steal that work. I think it is wrong to in any way reinforce the stealing of code (or decompiling).


best

Joseph