Rodent NNUE (works with the old SF networks)

[AdminX]

It looks like Tal still has that Tall thing going! Thanks!


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[AdminX]

Here are three nice RodentNNUE games with Shredder Classic 5. 5 Minute Blitz

[Event "5 Minutes/Game"] [Site "Engine Match"] [Date "2021.12.20"] [Round "7"] [White "Shredder Classic 5 x64"] [Black "Rodent NNUE 1.0 [Tal]"] [ECO "D03"] [Result "0-1"] 1. d4 {book 0s} Nf6 {+0.25/18 7s} 2. Nf3 {book 0s (c4)} d5 {+0.40/18 7s} 3. Bg5 {book 0s (c4)} Ne4 {+0.01/17 7s} 4. Bf4 {book 0s} Bf5 {-0.06/15 6s} 5. Nbd2 {book 0s (e3)} e6 {-0.14/17 6s} 6. e3 {book 0s} Nd7 {+0.01/17 6s} 7. Nxe4 {+0.08/20 9s} dxe4 {+0.04/18 0s (Bxe4)} 8. Nd2 {0.00/21 10s (Ne5)} Bd6 {+0.10/17 6s} 9. Bxd6 {+0.05/22 3s} cxd6 {+0.01/18 1s} 10. Be2 {+0.04/21 4s} O-O {-0.01/17 1s} 11. O-O {0.00/20 6s} Rc8 {-0.03/16 6s} 12. c3 {0.00/20 23s} d5 {-0.21/19 0s (Qc7)} 13. Qb3 {+0.10/20 6s} Qg5 {-0.26/18 6s (Qc7)} 14. Rfc1 {+0.09/19 8s} Nf6 {-0.12/19 0s (Rfd8)} 15. c4 {+0.31/18 4s} b6 {-0.02/17 0s (Bg4)} 16. Qa4 {+0.28/19 7s (Kh1)} Bh3 {-0.70/15 5s (Bg4)} 17. Bf1 {+0.30/21 5s} h5 {-0.09/16 5s (Bf5)} 18. cxd5 {+0.02/18 13s (Rc2)} exd5 {-0.32/20 5s} 19. Qxa7 {0.00/21 0s} h4 {-0.40/20 4s} 20. g3 {0.00/21 7s (Qa6)} Bxf1 {-1.79/18 5s} 21. Nxf1 {0.00/23 0s} Qg4 {-1.98/19 4s (Qh5)} 22. Qa4 {0.00/22 5s (Qa6)} h3 {-2.51/23 5s} 23. Nd2 {-0.46/27 5s} b5 {-2.96/23 0s (Qe2)} 24. Qxb5 {-0.30/28 3s} Rb8 {-2.44/22 4s} 25. Qf1 {-0.28/27 7s} Rxb2 {-2.51/23 4s} 26. Nb1 {-0.33/26 1s} Qf3 {-2.21/20 4s (Ra8)} 27. Na3 {-0.52/26 5s} Ng4 {-2.59/24 0s} 28. Rc2 {-0.67/28 7s} Rfb8 {-3.55/25 0s} 29. Rac1 {-0.59/28 2s} Rxc2 {-3.92/24 1s} 30. Nxc2 {-1.16/29 3s} Rb2 {-3.36/26 0s (Rc8)} 31. a4 {-0.58/30 3s} Ra2 {-3.23/24 4s} 32. a5 {-0.84/29 2s} Rxa5 {-3.59/25 1s} 33. Ne1 {-0.85/30 2s} Qf5 {-3.47/26 1s} 34. Qe2 {-0.85/30 1s} g5 {-3.45/25 2s (g6)} 35. Qc2 {-0.70/25 5s (Qd2)} Kg7 {-3.35/24 4s} 36. Qb2 {-1.12/26 2s (Qd2)} Ra3 {-3.48/25 4s (Ra6)} 37. Qd2 {-1.15/27 5s} Kg6 {-3.28/26 0s (Ra6)} 38. Rc6+ {-1.15/26 3s (Rc2)} Kh5 {-3.71/24 4s (Kh7)} 39. Rc2 {-1.28/27 4s} Qf6 {-4.28/24 3s} 40. Ra2 {-1.55/31 3s} Qa6 {-4.44/25 3s} 41. Rxa3 {-1.86/32 1s} Qxa3 {-4.63/28 3s} 42. Nc2 {-2.22/33 1s} Qd3 {-5.92/29 3s} 43. Qc1 {-3.08/37 2s} Qe2 {-7.77/30 0s} 44. Qf1 {-4.24/42 18s} Qxf1+ {-7.03/32 3s} 45. Kxf1 {-3.35/15 0s} Nxh2+ {-7.78/33 3s} 46. Kg1 {-5.11/40 10s} Ng4 {-7.81/33 3s} 47. Nb4 {-4.98/37 0s} h2+ {-8.07/32 1s} 48. Kg2 {-5.59/37 1s (Kh1)} Nxf2 {-8.13/34 3s} 49. Kxh2 {-6.03/37 3s} Ng4+ {-8.27/33 3s} 0-1

[Event "5 Minutes/Game"] [Site "Engine Match"] [Date "2021.12.20"] [Round "9"] [White "Shredder Classic 5 x64"] [Black "Rodent NNUE 1.0 [Tal]"] [ECO "C21"] [Result "0-1"] 1. e4 {book 0s} e5 {+0.26/18 7s} 2. d4 {book 0s (Nf3)} exd4 {-0.15/17 7s} 3. f4 {book 0s (Qxd4)} Nc6 {-1.23/17 7s} 4. Nf3 {-0.74/20 9s} d5 {-0.93/17 6s} 5. e5 {-0.86/21 19s} Nh6 {-1.24/19 0s} 6. Bb5 {-0.69/20 4s (Nbd2)} Nf5 {-1.36/18 6s} 7. Nxd4 {-0.42/21 4s} Qh4+ {-2.00/18 6s (a6)} 8. g3 {-0.85/24 12s} Nxg3 {-2.21/22 0s} 9. Nf3 {-1.10/24 7s} Qh6 {-1.19/18 6s (Qh3)} 10. f5 {0.00/22 4s} Qh5 {-0.27/16 6s} 11. Rg1 {0.00/23 0s} Ne4 {-0.37/17 5s} 12. Qxd5 {0.00/23 0s} Qxf3 {0.00/19 4s} 13. Rf1 {0.00/23 0s (Bxc6+)} Bb4+ {-0.32/19 5s (Qg4)} 14. c3 {-0.25/21 12s} Qg4 {-0.79/19 0s} 15. Rf4 {-0.73/20 8s} Qg1+ {-0.81/20 0s} 16. Rf1 {-0.48/23 4s} Qc5 {-1.00/20 0s} 17. Bxc6+ {-0.53/25 4s} Qxc6 {-0.92/21 1s} 18. Qxc6+ {-0.48/26 3s} bxc6 {-1.02/23 5s} 19. cxb4 {-0.46/27 4s} g6 {-1.07/21 0s} 20. f6 {-0.46/26 7s} O-O {-0.83/22 5s} 21. Nc3 {-0.38/27 2s} Re8 {-1.00/23 2s} 22. Nxe4 {-0.36/27 2s} Rxe5 {-0.94/23 2s} 23. Kf2 {-0.40/26 2s} Rxe4 {-0.96/21 2s} 24. Re1 {-0.33/27 4s} Rxe1 {-0.96/21 0s} 25. Kxe1 {-0.33/26 4s} Bg4 {-0.87/21 5s} 26. Be3 {-0.32/26 1s} a6 {-0.70/21 2s} 27. Kf2 {-0.33/25 3s} Rd8 {-0.83/20 0s} 28. Rg1 {-0.36/25 3s (Bg5)} Be6 {-1.09/21 4s (Bh3)} 29. Rc1 {-0.28/27 6s} Bd5 {-0.69/21 4s (Rd6)} 30. a3 {-0.31/26 3s (Bf4)} Rd6 {-1.46/22 4s} 31. Bd4 {-0.36/27 2s} h6 {-1.31/22 2s} 32. Re1 {-0.44/26 8s} Be6 {-1.42/21 4s (Bc4)} 33. Ke3 {-0.32/25 3s (Be5)} g5 {-1.36/22 4s (Bc4)} 34. Be5 {-0.40/26 8s} Rd5 {-1.21/25 0s} 35. Bxc7 {-0.44/26 4s} Rf5 {-1.21/22 0s} 36. Kd4 {-0.46/26 6s (Rc1)} c5+ {-1.28/21 4s (Rxf6)} 37. bxc5 {-0.34/24 2s} Rd5+ {-1.34/23 0s} 38. Ke4 {-0.37/25 1s (Ke3)} Rxc5 {-1.47/21 4s} 39. Be5 {-0.34/26 2s} Kh7 {-1.47/20 0s} 40. Rd1 {-0.42/24 2s (Bc3)} Rc4+ {-1.49/20 4s (Rc2)} 41. Ke3 {-0.45/25 6s} Kg6 {-1.32/23 0s} 42. Rd6 {-0.41/24 2s} Kf5 {-1.35/21 0s (a5)} 43. Bd4 {-0.26/23 2s} Rc2 {-1.52/19 3s (Ra4)} 44. Rxa6 {-0.26/22 3s} Rxh2 {-1.34/20 3s} 45. Ra5+ {-0.33/23 8s} Kg6 {-1.77/20 0s} 46. a4 {-0.62/21 6s} Rh3+ {-1.90/18 3s (h5)} 47. Kd2 {-0.46/21 11s} Bf5 {-1.98/21 0s} 48. Bc3 {-0.46/19 3s (Ke2)} Rd3+ {-1.93/19 3s (g4)} 49. Ke2 {-0.47/22 3s} Rd8 {-1.94/21 0s} 50. b4 {-0.48/22 0s} h5 {-1.94/19 2s} 51. b5 {-0.52/21 0s} h4 {-1.18/18 2s} 52. b6 {-0.58/22 1s} Rb8 {-1.39/19 1s (g4)} 53. Rb5 {-0.75/23 3s} Bd7 {-1.99/21 0s} 54. Rb4 {-0.96/24 1s} Bc6 {-1.80/21 1s (h3)} 55. Kf2 {-0.51/20 1s} Bb7 {-1.39/21 1s} 56. Be5 {-0.63/22 4s} Rd8 {-1.80/23 0s (Re8)} 57. Rc4 {-0.62/21 1s} Rd2+ {-2.27/21 1s (Rc8)} 58. Ke3 {-0.57/21 3s} Rd5 {-2.29/21 0s} 59. Bb8 {-0.62/21 3s} h3 {-1.67/19 3s (Ba6)} 60. Rc2 {-0.52/19 2s (Rc3)} Rd1 {-2.62/18 3s (Rf5)} 61. Ra2 {-0.80/20 2s} Rb1 {-2.58/21 3s} 62. a5 {-0.82/23 0s} Ba6 {-2.60/21 2s (Rb3+)} 63. Kf2 {-0.73/22 1s} Kxf6 {-2.99/20 0s} 64. Rd2 {-0.77/21 0s} Kg6 {-3.11/20 2s (Rb3)} 65. Kg3 {-1.45/20 3s} Rb3+ {-2.75/21 2s} 66. Kh2 {-1.42/26 0s} f6 {-3.04/19 1s (f5)} 67. Ra2 {-1.52/21 2s} Kh5 {-3.88/21 2s (f5)} 68. Rf2 {-1.49/23 1s} Kh4 {-3.97/21 2s (Kg4)} 69. Rd2 {-2.17/22 1s} f5 {-4.41/19 0s} 70. Be5 {-2.20/22 0s} f4 {-5.53/20 2s (Ra3)} 71. Rf2 {-1.48/23 1s} Rb4 {-7.71/20 0s (Kh5)} 72. Bf6 {-2.89/19 1s} Ra4 {-9.47/20 2s (Kh5)} 73. Rb2 {-3.82/23 3s} Bb7 {-8.48/23 2s} 74. Rf2 {-4.57/27 1s} Re4 {-9.42/23 2s} 75. a6 {-5.50/29 0s} Bxa6 {-11.41/20 2s} 76. b7 {-7.43/26 2s (Rc2)} Bxb7 {-12.07/21 2s} 0-1

[Event "5 Minutes/Game"] [Site "Engine Match"] [Date "2021.12.20"] [Round "2"] [White "Rodent NNUE 1.0 [Tal]"] [Black "Shredder Classic 5 x64"] [ECO "B08"] [Result "1-0"] 1. e4 {+0.31/18 7s} g6 {book 0s (e5)} 2. d4 {+0.75/18 7s} d6 {book 0s} 3. Nc3 {+0.80/17 6s} Bg7 {book 0s} 4. Nf3 {+0.58/17 6s} Nf6 {book 0s} 5. Be3 {+0.53/17 6s} a6 {book 0s (O-O)} 6. h3 {+0.48/18 6s} b5 {book 0s (O-O)} 7. e5 {+0.68/18 6s} Nfd7 {+0.54/22 16s} 8. e6 {+0.96/19 0s (Ng5)} fxe6 {0.00/21 9s} 9. h4 {+0.61/18 0s (a4)} Nf6 {-0.14/18 7s} 10. h5 {+0.73/17 6s (Bd3)} gxh5 {-0.12/19 12s} 11. a4 {+0.69/19 0s (Ng5)} bxa4 {-0.26/18 8s} 12. Ng5 {+1.00/16 0s (Ne2)} Nc6 {-0.25/18 13s} 13. Nce4 {+1.25/15 0s (Nge4)} Kf8 {-0.34/17 5s} 14. Qf3 {+0.65/14 6s (Rxa4)} d5 {-0.57/18 9s (Qe8)} 15. Nxf6 {+0.46/15 5s} exf6 {0.00/18 3s} 16. Rxa4 {+0.39/15 5s (Bd3)} e5 {-0.68/19 11s} 17. dxe5 {0.00/18 5s} Nxe5 {-0.28/20 10s} 18. Qf4 {+0.24/17 0s} Rb8 {-0.28/19 3s} 19. Nf3 {+0.83/16 1s (Rb4)} Nxf3+ {-0.74/18 6s} 20. Qxf3 {+0.42/19 0s} Bg4 {-0.67/20 6s} 21. Qf4 {+0.73/19 0s (Bc5+)} Rxb2 {-0.43/19 6s} 22. f3 {+0.34/19 5s (Kd2)} Bc8 {-0.12/19 10s (Bd7)} 23. Rxh5 {+0.84/17 5s} Rxc2 {0.00/20 1s} 24. Bxa6 {+1.24/17 5s} Be6 {+0.08/21 4s} 25. Bd3 {+0.63/17 5s} Rxg2 {+0.11/22 2s} 26. Ra7 {+1.13/16 1s} Qd6 {+0.07/22 1s} 27. Qxd6+ {+0.82/17 2s (Rxc7)} cxd6 {0.00/24 3s} 28. Bf4 {+1.21/18 0s (Ra8+)} h6 {0.00/24 7s} 29. Kf1 {+1.37/21 0s} Rb2 {+0.05/25 4s} 30. Rh1 {+1.62/21 4s (Bxd6+)} Kg8 {+0.05/25 5s} 31. Bc1 {+1.04/21 0s (Bxd6)} Rb8 {+0.50/26 4s} 32. Rg1 {+2.37/23 0s} Bf7 {+0.90/28 6s} 33. Bf4 {+2.72/23 0s} h5 {+1.05/29 6s} 34. Bf5 {+2.08/24 4s} Re8 {+1.11/30 1s} 35. Bxd6 {+2.44/24 2s (Bd7)} h4 {+2.06/29 9s} 36. Bd7 {+3.18/24 4s} Rh7 {+2.25/31 0s} 37. Bxe8 {+2.94/23 3s} Bxe8 {+2.04/28 1s} 38. Kf2 {+2.86/22 2s} h3 {+2.25/29 2s} 39. Ra8 {+3.54/23 1s (Re1)} Kf7 {+1.93/26 7s} 40. Bh2 {+3.39/26 0s} f5 {+2.06/26 3s} 41. Ra7+ {+3.58/24 0s} Kf6 {+2.09/26 2s} 42. Re1 {+3.90/23 1s} Kg6 {+2.33/27 2s} 43. Re6+ {+3.88/21 4s} Kg5 {+2.51/28 0s} 44. Rxg7+ {+4.53/21 3s} Rxg7 {+2.62/30 0s} 45. Rxe8 {+5.05/20 4s} Ra7 {+2.75/27 1s} 46. Rd8 {+5.20/21 3s} Ra5 {+2.81/29 1s (Rh7)} 47. Kg3 {+5.19/22 3s} Ra3 {+2.80/33 0s} 48. Rxd5 {+5.10/26 2s} Rc3 {+3.23/28 0s} 49. Rb5 {+5.07/27 2s (Rd4)} Re3 {+3.37/26 2s} 50. Rb8 {+6.13/20 3s (Bg1)} Kg6 {+3.57/27 3s} 51. Bg1 {+6.53/21 3s (Rb4)} Rd3 {+3.57/29 1s} 52. Rf8 {+6.99/21 3s (Rb6+)} Ra3 {+3.80/27 4s} 53. Rh8 {+7.02/22 3s (Bd4)} Kg5 {+3.83/27 2s} 54. Rg8+ {+7.22/23 3s} Kf6 {+3.91/30 0s} 55. Bd4+ {+8.56/19 3s (Bc5)} Ke6 {+3.97/31 1s} 56. Rh8 {+8.71/19 1s} Kd5 {+3.97/25 0s} 57. Bf6 {+8.92/22 3s (Bb6)} Ke6 {+4.11/27 2s} 58. Bg5 {+9.05/23 2s} Ke5 {+4.18/30 0s (Ra4)} 59. Rxh3 {+8.89/22 2s (Rh6)} Ra4 {+4.32/27 1s (Ra1)} 60. Rh6 {+9.24/23 2s (Rh2)} Rb4 {+4.45/27 1s} 61. Ra6 {+9.70/21 2s (Be7)} Kd5 {+4.52/29 1s (Rb1)} 62. Ra5+ {+10.92/22 2s (Bf4)} Ke6 {+5.01/25 3s} 63. f4 {+11.07/25 2s} Rb1 {+5.29/27 2s} 64. Re5+ {+11.32/22 0s} 1-0

[AdminX]

Are we sure that personalities are working? Here is why I ask, today I was playing a game on Lichess where I reached the following position as white.


[fen]r4rk1/qp1b1ppp/p1n1p3/3pP3/5B2/P1PB1Q2/5PPP/3RR1K1 w - - 0 17[/fen]


In this position I played Bxh7, went on to win via Qh5 followed by Rook up and over. When the game was over I went to analyze the game with the aid of engines where I discovered most of the top engine did not even have my move in their top three choices. I then loaded Rodent NNUE (Tal) thinking that the Tal personality would pick it but that is not what it likes here and would have played Qh3 instead. Bxh7 seems like the kind of move Tal would play here.

[carldaman]

Have you checked with OpenTal, perhaps using multipv?

[AdminX]

Have you checked with OpenTal, perhaps using multipv?

Thanks for the suggestion, I just tried it using Chessbase and Multipv does not appear to work there. I then used Shredder GUI where I could see that the move was also not in it's top choices. Qh3 also being the main choice.

[AdminX]

Have you checked with OpenTal, perhaps using multipv?

Thanks for the suggestion, I just tried it using Chessbase and Multipv does not appear to work there. I then used Shredder GUI where I could see that the move was also not in it's top choices. Qh3 also being the main choice.

Update, I had OpenTal versions 1.0 and 1.1 on my computer, but remembered that there was a version 1.2. So I downloaded it and installed it. MultiPv works with 1.2, not that it changes things as even 1.2 does not give Bxh7 in it's top 4 lines. Oh well clearly there were better moves other than Bxh7.

[Scally]

Hi Ted,

I have the source code for OpenTal 1.0 & 1.1 but can only find Windows executables for v1.2, is there any source code anywhere?

Thanks,

Al.

[Cornfed]

Have you checked with OpenTal, perhaps using multipv?

Thanks for the suggestion, I just tried it using Chessbase and Multipv does not appear to work there. I then used Shredder GUI where I could see that the move was also not in it's top choices. Qh3 also being the main choice.

Update, I had OpenTal versions 1.0 and 1.1 on my computer, but remembered that there was a version 1.2. So I downloaded it and installed it. MultiPv works with 1.2, not that it changes things as even 1.2 does not give Bxh7 in it's top 4 lines. Oh well clearly there were better moves other than Bxh7.

Of course your Bh7 is the first thing a human would look at, being a 'forcing' move and the one that naturally fits into our 'pattern bank'

I do not have OpenTal but, being early on Christmas and waiting for others to wake up (aside from the 3 cats that seemed to want me to wake up so they could get their presents...), I threw the position into 4 engines. Current SF Dev version and Komodo 13.3 (the most recent I own) both slot Bh7 in at 4th choice. Komodo 13.3 MCTS...well, it's been running for a few minutes now and does not show in the top 8 choices. I expected otherwise as MCTS supposedly has more 'human like' output and what could be more human than Bh7 (?).

I do however have ShashChess 18.2 and 'Tal personality' immediately slots Bh7 into 2nd, then very quickly drops back to 4th.

[AdminX]

Hi Ted,

I have the source code for OpenTal 1.0 & 1.1 but can only find Windows executables for v1.2, is there any source code anywhere?

Thanks,

Al.

Sorry Al, I am in the same boat as you, I only found the Windows executable.

[AdminX]

Have you checked with OpenTal, perhaps using multipv?

Thanks for the suggestion, I just tried it using Chessbase and Multipv does not appear to work there. I then used Shredder GUI where I could see that the move was also not in it's top choices. Qh3 also being the main choice.

Update, I had OpenTal versions 1.0 and 1.1 on my computer, but remembered that there was a version 1.2. So I downloaded it and installed it. MultiPv works with 1.2, not that it changes things as even 1.2 does not give Bxh7 in it's top 4 lines. Oh well clearly there were better moves other than Bxh7.

I do however have ShashChess 18.2 and 'Tal personality' immediately slots Bh7 into 2nd, then very quickly drops back to 4th.

See what you just did!? You just gave me a reason to download and install ShashChess. Thanks as I did not know that it had a Tal personality.