Deep Saros 2.3c5 Free UCI Engine is out

[Guerrero]

Yes Saros is a identical copy of IvanHoe 52a.
Only numbers are changed in evaluation in files main.c, evaluation.v and pawn_eval.v.

Saros site:

Deep Saros also includes ideas and pieces of code derived from the various series software Ippolit (RobboLito, Igorrit). In addition to the author's ideas, Deep Saros also contains ideas taken from various free chess engines, including Glaurung, Fruit and Crafty.

That is false!

Saros is very strong because is 99.99% IvanHoe.

[UncombedCoconut]

Its not really a ripoff, these kind of derivatives are pretty common in the open source community.

Most of the ones I see are honest about their ancestry and what has changed. Maybe simply updating the website would help. Indeed, DeepSaros 2.3f has the far more accurate

Code: Select all

  printf ("by Roberto Munter\n");
  printf ("DeepSaros derived directly from IvanHoe series.\n");
  printf ("Thanks for all the Decembrist for the Greath code!\n");

Yet after confirming Norm's observations I think this still exaggerates what's changed.
P.S. Another difference is that in the open-source world one often forks with name-change only when there's an obstacle to collaborating with upstream. If they tested well I bet the eval changes could probably go in. So what's left? The "id author"?

[Carotino]

In reality there are also other changes, but no matter... Instead I want to clarify some points, even to deal with a heavy attack on me, run by Mr Norman Schmidt, alias Kranium.

1) On this site, several months ago, I had written that DeepSaros is a simple MOD of IvanHoe. Always here, I also said I'm not a professional, but a simple fan. I made ​​this mod for mere personal entertainment.

2) The site "http://deepsaros.jimdo.com/ " was born mainly to distribute DS to my friends. The initial quote was referring to version 2.3c3 and I have not ever changed. Laziness? Probably... So what?

3) The origin, the authors and the source code, were published by me. In previous versions lacked the source code, but I am committed to release it as soon as possible. This has been done.

4) Mr. Norman Schmidt (alias Kranium) is the last person who can talk about cloning. He was expelled from many sites, just because of his illegal clonings. (An example: http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/lastupdates.htm)

5) DeepSaros is also mentioned on the official website of Ippolit ( http://ippolit.wikispaces.com/Deep+Saros+++source+codes ) and the authors do not speak ill of it, indeed, state that promotes the cause of Ippolit.

6) DeepSaros is not a commercial product, but a "game", performed legally on Open Source code under the terms of the GNU license.

That said, everyone is free to choose whether to use DS or not. It is not acceptable, instead, a personal attack against me, especially if it is led by a doubt character which is Mr. Norman Schmidt.

Sorry for my bad english.

Roberto Munter.

[kranium]

In reality there are also other changes, but no matter...

Hi Roberto-

The files have been examined (via diff, etc. by several people)
The only changes found are listed in my original post in this thread.
Can you please point out the changes we all missed, which you are referring to above?
Perhaps you are referring to the default hash size?

Quote from Saros web site:
"Deep Saros also includes ideas and pieces of code derived from the various series software Ippolit (RobboLito, Igorrit). In addition to the author's ideas, Deep Saros also contains ideas taken from various free chess engines, including Glaurung, Fruit and Crafty."

Can you please be specific concerning your code/ideas, along with any ideas from Glaurung, Fruit, and Crafty that have been implemented in Saros?
It doesn't seem to be a Frankenstein-like engine at all, with pieces from various open-source engines cobbled together as you imply, ...the source code looks 100% IvanHoe to me.

Thanks-
Norm

Your acknowledgement/disclosure reminds me very much of (and seems formulated in a similar manner to) Houdini's ubiquitous blanket acknowledgement:
"Without many ideas and techniques from the open source chess engines Ippolit, Stockfish and Crafty, Houdini would not nearly be as strong as it is now."

[Carotino]

Hi Normy,

You should first explain the difference between "your" program "Crimsom" and the program "Viper", by Tord Romstad. it is true that you wanted to sell it? Maybe we can ask this directly to Tord? I'm sure he remembers very well.
You should also explain the difference between "your" programs: TogaToy, Cyclone, Cyclops, Alderon, from the original ones.
You should then explain the reason for which you have driven by numerous sites of chess engines (eg wbec-ridderkerk, but there are many others) ...
I like your honesty and righteousness. Above all this makes you a very reliable character in terms of clones...

Goodnight pretty Normy.

[Christopher Conkie]

Hi Normy,

You should first explain the difference between "your" program "Crimsom" and the program "Viper", by Tord Romstad. it is true that you wanted to sell it? Maybe we can ask this directly to Tord? I'm sure he remembers very well.
You should also explain the difference between "your" programs: TogaToy, Cyclone, Cyclops, Alderon, from the original ones.
You should then explain the reason for which you have driven by numerous sites of chess engines (eg wbec-ridderkerk, but there are many others) ...
I like your honesty and righteousness. Above all this makes you a very reliable character in terms of clones...

Goodnight pretty Normy.

Let me end this turmoil for both of you......

It goes like this......

http://www.giocareascacchi.it/utility/f ... os.html/4/

But it also goes like this......

http://www.open-aurec.com/wbforum/viewt ... 8&start=20

Let's call it a "draw" between you both....ok?
This is a computer chess forum.....and that is what makes it "pretty".

It is enough already.

Chris

[kranium]

Let me end this turmoil for both of you......

It goes like this......

http://www.giocareascacchi.it/utility/f ... os.html/4/

But it also goes like this......

http://www.open-aurec.com/wbforum/viewt ... 8&start=20

Let's call it a "draw" between you both....ok?
This is a computer chess forum.....and that is what makes it "pretty".

It is enough already.

Chris

Butt out Conkers...and mind your own business.

Please seek attention elsewhere.

[kranium]

Hi Normy,

You should first explain the difference between "your" program "Crimsom" and the program "Viper", by Tord Romstad. it is true that you wanted to sell it? Maybe we can ask this directly to Tord? I'm sure he remembers very well.
You should also explain the difference between "your" programs: TogaToy, Cyclone, Cyclops, Alderon, from the original ones.
You should then explain the reason for which you have driven by numerous sites of chess engines (eg wbec-ridderkerk, but there are many others) ...
I like your honesty and righteousness. Above all this makes you a very reliable character in terms of clones...

Goodnight pretty Normy.

Roberto-
I asked you a simple question:

Can you please be specific concerning your code/ideas, along with any ideas from Glaurung, Fruit, and Crafty that have been implemented in Saros?"

If you don't want to answer, or can't...no problem, but there's no need to turn this thread into a flame war.

Although that strategy is tried and tested, and has been perfected and endorsed by many of the Talkchess establishment (especially Banks, Conkie, etc., to name a few), it's rather childish, IMO.

Norm

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Norman,

such things could be standard in the next years. Make the list of engines longer and the users will give it more attention.

What's about with Fire?
Do you working on an own engine now or is Fire your actual topic but you make so far a break?

I am sure it could be interesting if you create a new engine with the knowledge in chess programming you have.

Best
Frank

[kranium]

Hi Normy,
You should also explain the difference between "your" programs: TogaToy, Cyclone, Cyclops, Alderon, from the original ones.
Goodnight pretty Normy.

You forgot Demon, Xyclops, RobboLite, Robbolito, Igorrit, FireBird, and Fire...

But this thread is not about me...it's about Deep Saros.
Please stay on topic, and answer my question.

Thanks,
Norm