Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

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Raphexon
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by Raphexon » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:48 pm

Graham Banks wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:53 am
Harvey Williamson wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:20 am
jdart wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:10 am
are irrevocable provided the stated conditions are met."
Perhaps this is the key phrase. It can be revoked if conditions are not met.
There is a 30 day clause to rectify any issues if I recall reading correctly.
If they're talking FF2, there was an issue with the net being embedded with the engine when originally released, but that was fixed very quickly, well within the 30 days.

Jon may well be right, but I'm no expert.
30 days only for the first strike.
They were too slow with FF2, so first strike.

Afterwards they were still selling Houdini, so strike 2.

License revoked.

noobpwnftw
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by noobpwnftw » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:53 pm

I guess soon ChessBase will receive a copy of the filings from a court and prepare for defense? Hope they will publicize the documents should they find the lawsuit against them unconvincing.

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AdminX
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by AdminX » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:54 pm

dkappe wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:38 pm
One unfortunate fact about the German legal system is that legal filings, expert testimony, etc., are not public records. Perhaps the SF project and their lawyers could make some effort to make the proceedings more public?
Something like what Project Veritas does with their Youtube channel. Example: Their lawsuit with CNN where they give updates as the case makes its way thru the courts.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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dkappe
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by dkappe » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:01 pm

noobpwnftw wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:53 pm
I guess soon ChessBase will receive a copy of the filings from a court and prepare for defense? Hope they will publicize the documents should they find the lawsuit against them unconvincing.
You really expect ChessBase to do that given their history? I don’t think they ever said anything about the Danilov lawsuit, even after they won it.

I have more hope that the open source project in this suit will opt for sunshine. I really don’t have enough knowledge of the German legal system to know how realistic that might be. Fingers crossed.
Last edited by dkappe on Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".

kinderchocolate
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by kinderchocolate » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:16 pm

This lawsuit is going to take years to roll up. By then, Chessbase will have "Fat Fritz 5".

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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by Rebel » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:25 pm

dkappe wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:38 pm
One unfortunate fact about the German legal system is that legal filings, expert testimony, etc., are not public records. Perhaps the SF project and their lawyers could make some effort to make the proceedings more public?
And the loser pays for all costs. It that still the case?
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.

noobpwnftw
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by noobpwnftw » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm

https://perlenvombodensee.de/2021/07/21 ... chessbase/

Seems they got some inside story from ChessBase resellers?

dkappe
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by dkappe » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:10 pm

Rebel wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:25 pm
dkappe wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:38 pm
One unfortunate fact about the German legal system is that legal filings, expert testimony, etc., are not public records. Perhaps the SF project and their lawyers could make some effort to make the proceedings more public?
And the loser pays for all costs. It that still the case?
I asked a retired German lawyer about this. Apparently the winning party gets the statutory legal cost, which is probably a lot less than competent legal representation costs.

An interesting wrinkle that I wasn’t aware of is that the defendant has to come up with court fees proportional to the value of the claim. So if there are suits and counter suits, both parties would have to pony up € before the trial.

Edit: I misunderstood. It’s the claimant, not the defendant, that has to pay the fees.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".

Damir
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by Damir » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:39 pm

If the people are stupid enough to rush and hurry to buy a program based on the open source, it is their own fault and not the one who distributed it. They should have been aware that any strong program that comes with a network is probably Stockfish based, so they are without an excuse...

But some people are too eager to get rid of their money without giving it a second thought.... :) :)

Damir
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Re: Stockfish: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

Post by Damir » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm

I of course only mean Fat Fritz, since it is the the closest engine that comes to Stockfish strength and not other engines who use networks but are open source and are several hundreds of elo's weaker than Stockfish..

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