M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

Ckappe
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:50 am
Full name: Rütger Andersen

Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by Ckappe »

MikeB wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:40 am My latest machine -
OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Version 10.0.19042 Build 19042
System Manufacturer ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.
System Model ROG Zephyrus G14 GA401QM_GA401QM
System Type x64-based PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900HS with Radeon Graphics, 3301 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Drive C:
Description Local Fixed Disk
Compressed No
File System NTFS
Size 933.27 GB (1,002,088,763,392 bytes)
Name NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU
Adapter Type GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU, NVIDIA compatible
Adapter Description NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU

Code: Select all

asmfish benchmark
asmFishW_2017-05-22_popcnt
uci
id name asmFishW_2017-05-22_popcnt
id author TypingALot
option name Hash type spin default 16 min 1 max 65536
option name LargePages type check default false
option name Threads type spin default 1 min 1 max 256
option name NodeAffinity type string default all
option name Priority type combo default none var none var normal var low var idle
option name TTFile type string default <empty>
option name TTSave type button
option name TTLoad type button
option name Clear Hash type button
option name Ponder type check default false
option name UCI_Chess960 type check default false
option name MultiPV type spin default 1 min 1 max 224
option name Contempt type spin default 0 min -100 max 100
option name MoveOverhead type spin default 30 min 0 max 5000
option name MinThinkTime type spin default 20 min 0 max 5000
option name SlowMover type spin default 89 min 10 max 1000
option name SyzygyProbeDepth type spin default 1 min 1 max 100
option name SyzygyProbeLimit type spin default 6 min 0 max 6
option name Syzygy50MoveRule type check default true
option name SyzygyPath type string default <empty>
uciok

setoption name LargePages value true
bench 1024 16 26
*** bench hash 1024 threads 16 depth 26 realtime 0 ***
info string hash set to 1024 MB page size 2048 KB
info string node 0 has threads 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1:      nodes:  347088479       30753 knps
2:      nodes:  554274838       32838 knps
3:      nodes:  28252172        55396 knps
4:      nodes:  168339707       37136 knps
5:      nodes:  132008524       33428 knps
6:      nodes:  103573466       32797 knps
7:      nodes:  274855860       34152 knps
8:      nodes:  617399661       34826 knps
9:      nodes:  440292210       32838 knps
10:     nodes:  78866989        37862 knps
11:     nodes:  318545317       31998 knps
12:     nodes:  520638491       31051 knps
13:     nodes:  127653951       36172 knps
14:     nodes:  667557979       32261 knps
15:     nodes:  91585537        37829 knps
16:     nodes:  57411302        45892 knps
17:     nodes:  52541605        52332 knps
18:     nodes:  36719157        59129 knps
19:     nodes:  75379326        61837 knps
20:     nodes:  45637700        53628 knps
21:     nodes:  12942487        70339 knps
22:     nodes:  26765278        86339 knps
23:     nodes:  45211724        75102 knps
24:     nodes:  34410290        49869 knps
25:     nodes:  139569615       63182 knps
26:     nodes:  5504525         50041 knps
27:     nodes:  16378994        51506 knps
28:     nodes:  137446682       42831 knps
29:     nodes:  30712836        41729 knps
30:     nodes:  16038083        53460 knps
31:     nodes:  3940025         70357 knps
32:     nodes:  3512871         66280 knps
33:     nodes:  2322189         64505 knps
34:     nodes:  14664023        57058 knps
35:     nodes:  5864326         52831 knps
36:     nodes:  1358962         64712 knps
37:     nodes:  3262695         46609 knps
===========================
Total time (ms) : 149164
Nodes searched  : 5238527876
Nodes/second    : 35119250

Code: Select all

./O*1.exe bench 2048 16 16 true >/dev/null

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NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 90/96
FEN: 1R4bq/p1p3p1/2p3Pb/k1P3PR/2P4P/p1K5/P7/8 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 19926k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 91/96
FEN: 1R4bq/p1p3p1/2p3Pb/k1P4R/2P4P/p5P1/P7/1K6 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 33696k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 92/96
FEN: k7/n1p1p1K1/P1p1Pp2/5P2/3R3P/pB6/2p5/2r5 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 38113k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 93/96
FEN: 7r/p3k3/2p5/1pPp4/3P4/PP4P1/3P1PB1/2K5 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 34389k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 94/96
FEN: 2br4/r2pp3/8/1p1p1kN1/pP1P4/2P3R1/PP3PP1/2K5 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 36919k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 95/96
FEN: 8/1p6/1p6/kPp2P1K/2P5/N1Pp4/q2P4/1N6 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 45891k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

Position: 96/96
FEN: 4K1k1/8/1p5p/1Pp3b1/8/1P3P2/P1B2P2/8 w - - 0 1
Nodes/Second: 38426k
NN evaluation using eval.bin enabled.

=================================
Total time (ms) : 14242
Nodes searched  : 449603951

Nodes/second    : 31568k
CUDA Benchmark
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/compute/2753847

Total Cost $1449.99
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I needed something portable ...
A truly great choice for chess imop. Apple silicon is sadly not deliviering (despite the markteing hype-up) in terms of "real" performance at any price-level compared to Zen based laptops paired with a Nvidia GPU today :-(
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MikeB
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Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by MikeB »

some additional lcO benches using the Asus Armoury Crate app ...

Armoury Crate Performance Setting
===========================
Total time (ms) : 340138
Nodes searched : 38405261
Nodes/second : 112910

Armoury Crate Quiet Setting
===========================
Total time (ms) : 340173
Nodes searched : 27919233
Nodes/second : 82073
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AlexChess
Posts: 1562
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Full name: Alex Morales

Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by AlexChess »

acepoint_de wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:33 am
acepoint_de wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:04 pm https://acepoint.de/tools-for-pgn-files/

pgn-extract and scoutfish for extracting information out of or manipulating very large pgn files.

Ciao

acepoint
Someone asked for the uci-analyser, I've added it.

Ciao

acepoint
...But the MikeB's updated engines? Now that my Mac mini M1 is perfectly stable I can finally start my BanksiaGui M1 native engines tournament :wink:
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D macOS Sequoia 16GB-512GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
ProteusSF Dev Forum
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acepoint_de
Posts: 86
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Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by acepoint_de »

AlexChess wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:52 pm ...But the MikeB's updated engines? Now that my Mac mini M1 is perfectly stable I can finally start my BanksiaGui M1 native engines tournament :wink:
There is no official update yet as far as I know. And I don't bungle his source code.

Ciao

acepoint
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Modern Times
Posts: 3755
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by Modern Times »

Ckappe wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:27 am Apple silicon is sadly not delivering (despite the marketing hype-up) in terms of "real" performance at any price-level compared to Zen based laptops paired with a Nvidia GPU today :-(
Indeed, but full credit to Apple for designing their own CPU, which is very good indeed. I will never buy Apple, but credit where credit is due. The fact that it gives great performance passively cooled is astonishing, the sound of silence ! And it is a "version 1" so there will be more to come.
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Ckappe
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:50 am
Full name: Rütger Andersen

Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by Ckappe »

Modern Times wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 12:14 pm
Ckappe wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:27 am Apple silicon is sadly not delivering (despite the marketing hype-up) in terms of "real" performance at any price-level compared to Zen based laptops paired with a Nvidia GPU today :-(
Indeed, but full credit to Apple for designing their own CPU, which is very good indeed. I will never buy Apple, but credit where credit is due. The fact that it gives great performance passively cooled is astonishing, the sound of silence ! And it is a "version 1" so there will be more to come.
True, but most technology advances here are really not by Apple itself, but rather from TSMC and ARM. Apple's contributions like the GPU, AI, etc. are rather underwhelming, to be frank :-(. The latest 7nm CPUs are faster even passively cooled and the M1 can't go full speed without active cooling either. Apple silicon actively cooled is still outperformed by big margin from a passively cooled 5800U :-(

I was expecting Apple to at least provide a 12core (8 full cores) by summer to actually compete in the non-netbook territory, Nut rumors at hand we may only see.

If CISC competitors already provide similar TDP and 2-3 times performance to the M1 at 7nm... The lead will just widen when Intel and AMD etc. also moves down to smaller die-sizes. but honestly, I don't know if Apple actually needs to up this game, as they don't really need to provide "real" performance, just keep current mac user happy with some dubious Geekbench benchmarks and Media will go ballistics each time they release some new HW :-)

Let's hope they get their multithreading and all-.cores performance right with M2.. But I will for sure not be in line to buy one until I have seen some REAL unbiassed benches like the ones here for M2, that slips through the marketing hype and rigged benches.

I am also worried that MacOS may become more and more like the locked-down. locked in, DRM-ish non-open nightmare like IOS later on :-(

My biggest gripe with Apple (apart from the overpricing :-) is really their anti-openness, and embrace of security by obscurity, to gain anti-competitive advantages over competitors when users select their hw.
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AlexChess
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Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by AlexChess »

acepoint_de wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 am
AlexChess wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:52 pm ...But the MikeB's updated engines? Now that my Mac mini M1 is perfectly stable I can finally start my BanksiaGui M1 native engines tournament :wink:
There is no official update yet as far as I know. And I don't bungle his source code.

Ciao

acepoint
I think that 13.1 Honey family is now official... Also Windows version is out https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/ ... s/tag/13.1

Regards, AlexChess
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D macOS Sequoia 16GB-512GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
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acepoint_de
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Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by acepoint_de »

AlexChess wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 6:17 pm
acepoint_de wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 am
AlexChess wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:52 pm ...But the MikeB's updated engines? Now that my Mac mini M1 is perfectly stable I can finally start my BanksiaGui M1 native engines tournament :wink:
There is no official update yet as far as I know. And I don't bungle his source code.

Ciao

acepoint
I think that 13.1 Honey family is now official... Also Windows version is out https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/ ... s/tag/13.1

Regards, AlexChess
Yes, but the 13.1 from a fortnight ago is the one with segfaults on an M1.

Ciao

acepoint
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MikeB
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Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by MikeB »

AlexChess wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 6:17 pm
acepoint_de wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 am
AlexChess wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 8:52 pm ...But the MikeB's updated engines? Now that my Mac mini M1 is perfectly stable I can finally start my BanksiaGui M1 native engines tournament :wink:
There is no official update yet as far as I know. And I don't bungle his source code.

Ciao

acepoint
I think that 13.1 Honey family is now official... Also Windows version is out https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/ ... s/tag/13.1

Regards, AlexChess
No - that's old, a minor upgrade will be released soon , replacing the "Xboard" color there with "Organic" in the Droidfish app.
Everything got delayed due a technical issue and I had to reinstall Windows. No data was lost . but many apps had to be reinstalled, including msys2 and Android Studio.
One good thing about the reinstall, I never had 3 honey engiens busting 120M nps on the bench with NNUE evaluation before ...
### Based on commits through 05/02/2021:
### ======================================================
### Black-Diamond-v13.1-.bench:Nodes searched : 35776186
### Black-Diamond-v13.1-.bench:Nodes/second : 2214146
### Black-Diamond-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes searched : 1091223517
### Black-Diamond-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes/second : 64876k
### Bluefish-v13.1-.bench:Nodes searched : 25362361
### Bluefish-v13.1-.bench:Nodes/second : 2384352
### Bluefish-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes searched : 1768212452
### Bluefish-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes/second : 111968k
### Harmon-v13.1-.bench:Nodes searched : 20004086
### Harmon-v13.1-.bench:Nodes/second : 2561670
### Harmon-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes searched : 1899344907
### Harmon-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes/second : 127165k
### Honey-v13.1-.bench:Nodes searched : 25060405
### Honey-v13.1-.bench:Nodes/second : 2405490
### Honey-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes searched : 2085952968
### Honey-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes/second : 124989k
### Oki-Maguro-v13.1-.bench:Nodes searched : 16006634
### Oki-Maguro-v13.1-.bench:Nodes/second : 2493245
### Oki-Maguro-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes searched : 1341036744
### Oki-Maguro-v13.1--64_Cores.bench:Nodes/second : 122918k
### ======================================================
Installing the latest version of Armoury Crate from Asus broke Windows. I didn't believe it at first so , so I tried installing it again ( at his point I had nothing else to lose , since I had already reinstalled Windows once and got it back running) and it again prevented Windows from starting , a black screen right after logging in with the pin code to Windows. Reinstalled Windows again, the other less drastic options all failed.

Another plus, I now have the Asus Laptop ( Wifi, but no Ethernet) and the 3970x ( Ethernet , but no Wifi) talking to each other which make it real easy to exchanges files - wifi -> router >ethernet and vica versa , they are sharing a common folder.
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Modern Times
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Re: M1 Apple Silicon for Chess?

Post by Modern Times »

MikeB wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 7:18 am Another plus, I now have the Asus Laptop ( Wifi, but no Ethernet) and the 3970x ( Ethernet , but no Wifi) talking to each other which make it real easy to exchanges files - wifi -> router >ethernet and vica versa , they are sharing a common folder.
I simply use Onedrive as the "common folder". The machines don't need to "talk to each other", all they need is an internet connection. Pain-free. OK, that isn't as fast as local exchange, but works fine for me.
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