Chess variant idea

[xr_a_y]

Maybe already proposed, but I was just thinking :
- standard position rules or FRC if you want
- *but* you can capture your own pieces

What do you think ?

[Paloma]

BS, Garbage

[amanjpro]

BS, Garbage

Feel free to dislike an idea. But calling an idea BS or Garbage is a personal attack... You probably want to apologize for that

[MonteCarlo]

As you suspected, this has been explored.

It was one of the variants learned by A0 in the paper DeepMind did with Kramnik: https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.04374

Kramnik's assessment from the paper (not clear if his words or just a summary of his thoughts):

Self-capture chess is quite entertaining, as it introduces ad-
ditional options for sacrificing material – and material sacri-
fices have a certain aesthetic appeal. Self-capture moves can
feature in all stages of the game. Not every game involves
self-captures, as giving away material is not always required,
but they do feature in a substantial percentage of the games,
and in some games they occur multiple times. Self-capture
moves can be used to open files and squares for the pieces
in the attack; opening up a blockade by sacrificing a pawn
in the pawn chain; or in defence, while escaping the mating
net.

[xr_a_y]

As you suspected, this has been explored.

It was one of the variants learned by A0 in the paper DeepMind did with Kramnik: https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.04374

Kramnik's assessment from the paper (not clear if his words or just a summary of his thoughts):

Self-capture chess is quite entertaining, as it introduces ad-
ditional options for sacrificing material – and material sacri-
fices have a certain aesthetic appeal. Self-capture moves can
feature in all stages of the game. Not every game involves
self-captures, as giving away material is not always required,
but they do feature in a substantial percentage of the games,
and in some games they occur multiple times. Self-capture
moves can be used to open files and squares for the pieces
in the attack; opening up a blockade by sacrificing a pawn
in the pawn chain; or in defence, while escaping the mating
net.

Ah great, I'm glad it is sound. And it is easy to implement

[Andrew]

There's another variant I'd like to see looked at in the style of the alpha-zero paper or even NNUE stuff.

Probably "BS, Garbage"

I remember playing a game against another person with this back in high school, and seeing it in a variants book or web-site?

Rules were, pawns non-capture moves are diagonal (two in a straight line allowed on first move).
Pawns capture ahead (two in a straight line allowed on first move).

En-passant probably not allowed or defined? (I don't remember).

Would love to know if anyone can find a reference to this!

Andrew

[Andrew]

There's another variant I'd like to see looked at in the style of the alpha-zero paper or even NNUE stuff.

Probably "BS, Garbage"

I remember playing a game against another person with this back in high school, and seeing it in a variants book or web-site?

Rules were, pawns non-capture moves are diagonal (two in a straight line allowed on first move).
Pawns capture ahead (two in a straight line allowed on first move).

En-passant probably not allowed or defined? (I don't remember).

Would love to know if anyone can find a reference to this!

Andrew

Actually, quickly on google I managed to find it was probably one of these variants, using a Berolina pawn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berolina_chess

However the main variant gives only one move forward allowed for capture.

Andrew