Hard Puzzle for July

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Hobacle
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:57 pm
Full name: Xyan Tang

Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Hobacle » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:49 am


Black to win.

Every chess player has a compass in his heart, which points to the future of chess in his mind. This puzzle stands for the compass of mine.

Paloma
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Paloma » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:03 pm

1...Qxd2 2.g8Q Re5 3.Kf7 Qh6 4.Qxg4 Qh7+ -+ :D

Hobacle
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:57 pm
Full name: Xyan Tang

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Hobacle » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:54 pm

Paloma wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:03 pm
1...Qxd2 2.g8Q Re5 3.Kf7 Qh6 4.Qxg4 Qh7+ -+ :D
2.Kxe7 and then?

Spliffjiffer
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Spliffjiffer » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:03 pm

Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:49 am

Black to win.

Every chess player has a compass in his heart, which points to the future of chess in his mind. This puzzle stands for the compass of mine.
does this compass tell that its better to have no 50 move-rule ? ;-)

again a very nice composition by your own !!....thx very very much for your brilliant ideas Hobacle !

1...Qxd2 !! is correct but i had just found the solution after around 3 hours of investigation with the help of cfish and am currently not in the right mood to backtrack everything but i fear that the solution is not within the 50 move-rule, lets see...great work as always !

the solution is to ignore the knight on h1 and bring the bishop to b8 and then the king to a8...the rest is computer-stuff because u have to be very accurate to stay within the 50 move-rule (if possible at all)

lets see what the other guys find, very nice, thx :-)
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.

Paloma
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Paloma » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:12 pm

Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:54 pm

2.Kxe7 and then?
1... Qxd2 2. Kxe7 Qg5+ 3. Kf7 Qf5+ 4. Ke7 Qg6 5. Kf8 Qf6+ 6. Kg8 Bb6 7.
Kh7 Qf5+ 8. Kh8 Qh5+ 9. Kg8 Kb2

peter
Posts: 2471
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by peter » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:28 pm

Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:49 am

Black to win.
Don't have enough hardware- time right now to get a reliable DTM, not having found the best parameters for Chest till now.
But I guess you yet stayed somewhat lower than 50 this time
:)
As for your question about 2.Kxe7, even if that might be the the shorter way to mate probably:

8/2p1r1P1/P1Pp1K2/b1pP4/1qBp2p1/3P1pPp/3N1P1B/k5BN b - -

Engine: MateFinder 050320 640 (65536 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G.


57/66 1:21 -6.27 1...Qxd2 2.Kxe7 Qg5+ 3.Kd7 Qxg7+
4.Kc8 Qg8+ 5.Kb7 Bb6 6.a7 Bxa7
7.Kxa7 Kb2 8.Kb7 Qd8 9.Bb5 Kc3
10.Ka7 Qe7 11.Kb7 Kd2 12.Kc8 Qf7
13.Kb7 Qh7 14.Bc4 Kc3 (4.341.116.578) 53011

After giving in 2.g8Q:



Engine: MateFinder 050320 640 (65536 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G.


40/50 0:03 -6.51 2...Re5 3.Qg6 Bb6 4.Bb5 Kb2 5.Bc4 Kc2
6.Qg7 Kb1 7.Qg6 Kb2 8.Bb5 Kb3 9.Qg7 Rh5
10.Kf7 Rf5+ 11.Ke6 Qg5 12.Qxg5 Rxg5
13.Kd7 Rg8 14.Bc4+ Kc3 15.Ke7 Kd2 (197.035.573) 62550

As for DTM maybe something like this?

Peter.

Hobacle
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:57 pm
Full name: Xyan Tang

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Hobacle » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 pm

peter wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:28 pm
Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:49 am

Black to win.
Don't have enough hardware- time right now to get a reliable DTM, not having found the best parameters for Chest till now.
But I guess you yet stayed somewhat lower than 50 this time
:)
As for your question about 2.Kxe7, even if that might be the the shorter way to mate probably:

8/2p1r1P1/P1Pp1K2/b1pP4/1qBp2p1/3P1pPp/3N1P1B/k5BN b - -

Engine: MateFinder 050320 640 (65536 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G.


57/66 1:21 -6.27 1...Qxd2 2.Kxe7 Qg5+ 3.Kd7 Qxg7+
4.Kc8 Qg8+ 5.Kb7 Bb6 6.a7 Bxa7
7.Kxa7 Kb2 8.Kb7 Qd8 9.Bb5 Kc3
10.Ka7 Qe7 11.Kb7 Kd2 12.Kc8 Qf7
13.Kb7 Qh7 14.Bc4 Kc3 (4.341.116.578) 53011
Maybe you should try 3.Kf7.

peter
Posts: 2471
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by peter » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:21 pm

Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 pm
Maybe you should try 3.Kf7.
Maybe I should have some more (hardware-) time to try many more different moves along the lines, but how much longer would that get the DTM as for your own pov after 2...Kxe7 3.Kf7
?
More then 41?
Peter.

Hobacle
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:57 pm
Full name: Xyan Tang

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by Hobacle » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:30 pm

peter wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:21 pm
Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 pm
Maybe you should try 3.Kf7.
Maybe I should have some more (hardware-) time to try many more different moves along the lines, but how much longer would that get the DTM as for your own pov after 2...Kxe7 3.Kf7
?
More then 41?
Yes, unless you cook it.

peter
Posts: 2471
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Hard Puzzle for July

Post by peter » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:51 pm

Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:30 pm
peter wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:21 pm
Hobacle wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 pm
Maybe you should try 3.Kf7.
Maybe I should have some more (hardware-) time to try many more different moves along the lines, but how much longer would that get the DTM as for your own pov after 2...Kxe7 3.Kf7
?
More then 41?
Yes, unless you cook it.
Guess, I haven't cooked it.

Came over 100 moves in the meantime once in a while after 2...Kxe7 also, but that was probably a little much.
:)
It's a damned shame again, being unsure of the principle at all still, yet I think if it works after 2.g8Q it should do so after Kxe7 too.
Black has to keep an eye on g8 with the Queen as long as King hasn't captured at first the Black Knight at h1, g-Pawn can be traded against Queen then again as soon as Bishop is free to get f2- Pawn, then the two white- coloured white Bishops too.

Or are we all fully wrong yet with 1...Qxd2
?
I'm out till you or anybody else enlightens us fully about first move and a somewhat reliable DTM, unless I find one on my own yet
:)
Peter.

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