There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

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MikeB
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Re: There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

Post by MikeB » Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:04 am

scchess wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:42 am
Didn't Stockfish already provide well defined strength level support? What's difference between Honey to it?
Stockfish is the ultimate machine versus machine chess weapon, honey is for the club player who want to actually wants to play chess that is playing fullstrength, but only limited in strength by how deep it searches - with a myraid of choices , you best bet is to check it out and I wil be happy to help with you with questions you may have...

play by nodes count,( at one point it was tuned to CCRL, teh it was tuned to FIDE, but some levels were still too strong , so now the levesl are probably weaker than advertised, but on the othe rhand it can much much weak than stockfish, which is limited to about 1350 CCRL . Honey can play less than a 1000 FIDE - beginners (children, 6 years old ) can play a game and not lose.. I have grandchideren and that was and is important for me...
play by search depth
play by elo
adaptive play ( will keep you in the game longer no matter what level you play (reduces Elo by 300 to 400 Elo)
variety play
play with sleep mode ( example, honey will play instantly withplay by low search depth - tha can be annot=ying , activation sleep will cause honey to sleep for few seconds before replying)
up to 4 polyglot opening books can be used
tactical mode ( wider search useful in human play so honey will play smarter when playing at low depth or lwo nodes.
tactical depth - you can limit tactical mode to certain depth ( idea from SF shashin fork)
play by level ( GM, IM Expert ect)
pure nnue mode
since the weaker levels are governed by reducing depth/nodes, the battery life on portable device is greatly extended when compared to using stockfish on portable device in weakened play mode - that matters to me and many of my users using the Harmon chess app ( based on droidfish)
it's not perfect, but it works for me and it may work for you, ymmv...
and Harmon may be the only chess app where you can play with chess pieces that were designed almost a thousand years ago ...


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Chessqueen
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Re: There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

Post by Chessqueen » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:46 pm

I just downloaded your newer version of Honey but the Expert Level seems to be much stronger now than when I played against it 3 days ago, now I am having a hard time beating it or even drawing against i. This is the 5th game that I lost today in Expert Level, but 3 days ago I won the 1st two games. :oops:

Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

Chessqueen
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Re: There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

Post by Chessqueen » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:45 pm

Finally after the 7th game with the newer version of Honey I figured how to get a draw against Honey Expert Level, little by little I will advance to Master level probably in 6 months with more training with my online IM trainer and practicing against Honey :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

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MikeB
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Re: There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

Post by MikeB » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:13 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:45 pm
Finally after the 7th game with the newer version of Honey I figured how to get a draw against Honey Expert Level, little by little I will advance to Master level probably in 6 months with more training with my online IM trainer and practicing against Honey :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

+1
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Chessqueen
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Re: There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:43 am

MikeB wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:13 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:45 pm
Finally after the 7th game with the newer version of Honey I figured how to get a draw against Honey Expert Level, little by little I will advance to Master level probably in 6 months with more training with my online IM trainer and practicing against Honey :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

+1
I have always tried to figure out what is the meaning of +1 or -1 :? :?:. But one thing for sure is that your excellent Honey engine could be used as a training tool in conjunction with a good trainer, it is a great tool to measure your progress as you advance from one level to the next. :roll:
Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

Chessqueen
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Re: I finally figures how to beat Honey Elo Expert level !

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:09 am

I am starting to learn how to beat your Expert level of the Honey chess engine, the strategy is simply NOT to get into tactical position, and slowly squeeze a winning strategical win by searching every little advantage that you can get weather space, pieces coordination, pawn structure, and always always keep some of your pieces and pawn protecting your King before you go for the Kill. Thank, Mike B for your excellent Honey program, since you were a pioneer in tinking that we low human player also want to have fun playing against any engine. Most Top engine developers such as the team of stockfish, Larry Kaufman and the LCZero team only concentrate their effort to have the top engine performer, and forgot about the most important issue we human like to have fun and practice against engines that adjust to our level and at the same time it is a great tool for training since you can start at your estimaled level and gradually learn how to advance.

Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

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MikeB
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Re: There is something wrong with Honey Elo Expert setting

Post by MikeB » Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:07 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:43 am
MikeB wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:13 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:45 pm
Finally after the 7th game with the newer version of Honey I figured how to get a draw against Honey Expert Level, little by little I will advance to Master level probably in 6 months with more training with my online IM trainer and practicing against Honey :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

+1
I have always tried to figure out what is the meaning of +1 or -1 :? :?:. But one thing for sure is that your excellent Honey engine could be used as a training tool in conjunction with a good trainer, it is a great tool to measure your progress as you advance from one level to the next. :roll:
think of +1 as a numerical "like" ...
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MikeB
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Re: I finally figures how to beat Honey Elo Expert level !

Post by MikeB » Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:16 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:09 am
I am starting to learn how to beat your Expert level of the Honey chess engine, the strategy is simply NOT to get into tactical position, and slowly squeeze a winning strategical win by searching every little advantage that you can get weather space, pieces coordination, pawn structure, and always always keep some of your pieces and pawn protecting your King before you go for the Kill. Thank, Mike B for your excellent Honey program, since you were a pioneer in tinking that we low human player also want to have fun playing against any engine. Most Top engine developers such as the team of stockfish, Larry Kaufman and the LCZero team only concentrate their effort to have the top engine performer, and forgot about the most important issue we human like to have fun and practice against engines that adjust to our level and at the same time it is a great tool for training since you can start at your estimaled level and gradually learn how to advance.

Indeed, a non-tactical position where you either build a slow attack on one wing , or in some instances , where you have already pieces in place for follow through, look for sac on the h6 pawn , or a rook sac on bishop or knight that is playing the
a major role in defense. My best winning games usually involve a sac of some sort. Avoid open positions and keep as many pieces on the board as possible, look for the blocked positions where you can manuever your pieces behind the front lines to one side of the board for a major attack.
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Rowen
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Re: I finally figures how to beat Honey Elo Expert level !

Post by Rowen » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:08 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:09 am
I am starting to learn how to beat your Expert level of the Honey chess engine, the strategy is simply NOT to get into tactical position, and slowly squeeze a winning strategical win by searching every little advantage that you can get weather space, pieces coordination, pawn structure, and always always keep some of your pieces and pawn protecting your King before you go for the Kill. Thank, Mike B for your excellent Honey program, since you were a pioneer in tinking that we low human player also want to have fun playing against any engine. Most Top engine developers such as the team of stockfish, Larry Kaufman and the LCZero team only concentrate their effort to have the top engine performer, and forgot about the most important issue we human like to have fun and practice against engines that adjust to our level and at the same time it is a great tool for training since you can start at your estimaled level and gradually learn how to advance.

Hi
Actually the Komodo engine can be a lot of fun. I have just Komodo 12 (the free version) Use maximum king safety and dynamism and the engine will engage in all sorts of crazy sacrifices, that may still succeed if you make a critical defensive error. If its too weak just dial down the mentioned parameters. If its too strong try it in a chessbase GUI using the rated game option.

It plays like an aggressive opponent that just attacks and sacrifices, in a style that shouldnt win but does because of a critcal defensive error.

I find that most engines can be fun if there are enough parameters to manipulate. Other good options are the rodent engine and the disasterarea engine.

Chessqueen
Posts: 2400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:16 am
Location: Dominican Republic
Full name: Agustin Jorge Pichardo

Re: I finally figures how to beat Honey Elo Expert level !

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:21 pm

Rowen wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:08 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:09 am
I am starting to learn how to beat your Expert level of the Honey chess engine, the strategy is simply NOT to get into tactical position, and slowly squeeze a winning strategical win by searching every little advantage that you can get weather space, pieces coordination, pawn structure, and always always keep some of your pieces and pawn protecting your King before you go for the Kill. Thank, Mike B for your excellent Honey program, since you were a pioneer in tinking that we low human player also want to have fun playing against any engine. Most Top engine developers such as the team of stockfish, Larry Kaufman and the LCZero team only concentrate their effort to have the top engine performer, and forgot about the most important issue we human like to have fun and practice against engines that adjust to our level and at the same time it is a great tool for training since you can start at your estimaled level and gradually learn how to advance.

Hi
Actually the Komodo engine can be a lot of fun. I have just Komodo 12 (the free version) Use maximum king safety and dynamism and the engine will engage in all sorts of crazy sacrifices, that may still succeed if you make a critical defensive error. If its too weak just dial down the mentioned parameters. If its too strong try it in a chessbase GUI using the rated game option.

It plays like an aggressive opponent that just attacks and sacrifices, in a style that should not win but does because of a critical defensive error.

I find that most engines can be fun if there are enough parameters to manipulate. Other good options are the rodent engine and the disasterarea engine.
The newer Komodo MCTS 2 if you take your rating for instance let say 1700 or whatever it is and divide it by 115 = 14.7 you can set the skill level rounded off to 15. But you have to do this division whereas in Honey you simply set the level to CLASS B
Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

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