Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

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Michel
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by Michel » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:12 am

Rebel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:22 pm
Michel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:31 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:59 pm
hgm wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:44 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:49 pm
IT WAS NEVER ASKED [!]
How is that relevant?
Well, it's you who said that we can't know. We can.
Chris accused him of having no intention to give it, even when asked. That is a pretty damning accusation.
As a commercial, someone who took the risk to make a living in the paper thin market of chess programming, it's one thing to show your secrets to the tournament director DURING a tournament without the risk of leaking, or to hand it over to competitors. In his situation I won't do it either. It's that what Chris was telling you. You act if you don't understand that calling it a damning accusation. You are lying. You did understand him.
Come'on, the source code of R1.0b had no commercial value anymore (and there was already Strelka anyway).
Exactly the reason why there was no demand.

But decompiled rybka1.exe + assumptions + errors ≠ source code.

Also if you compare the Strelka source code (with its zillion of tables) with Fruit (which has only one - King Safety), Strelka (bit-board) Fruit (mailbox) they look nothing alike because in the end Strelka also was a decompile based on assumed code, good assumed code nevertheless with errors by the words of Vas.
You misunderstand me. I wanted to say that the source code of R1.0b could not possibly have any commercial value since it had been decompiled already in Strelka. So by allowing the source code of R1.0b to be inspected, Vas could have trivially exonerated himself (if he was indeed not guilty). He chose not to do this, and that is the end of the story. I really don’t understand why people keep coming back to this.
Ideas=science. Simplification=engineering.
Without ideas there is nothing to simplify.

mar
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Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:00 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Full name: Martin Sedlak

Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by mar » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:32 am

Michel wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:12 am
I wanted to say that the source code of R1.0b could not possibly have any commercial value since it had been decompiled already in Strelka
Strelka (2.0) is not a verbatim decompile of R1.0b though, so it's unknown how much of R1.0b it actually contains. Like I said - Osipov himself claimed he started from Fruit.
one trivial example is that R1.0b doesn't contain code to generate PSQ tables, I didn't look further.
Vas claimed it's a Rybka clone, however.

As for coming back to it - someone started this thread, so that's why. You also seem quite active in this thread - so you're coming back to it as well :)
Martin Sedlak

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Rebel
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Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by Rebel » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:40 am

Michel wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:12 am
You misunderstand me. I wanted to say that the source code of R1.0b could not possibly have any commercial value since it had been decompiled already in Strelka. So by allowing the source code of R1.0b to be inspected, Vas could have trivially exonerated himself (if he was indeed not guilty). He chose not to do this, and that is the end of the story. I really don’t understand why people keep coming back to this.
Ah, okay. Vas in 2012 (6 months after the verdict) said he didn't have it any longer.
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.

Enzo
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Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by Enzo » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:51 am

I look away and this thread has multiplied, the usual baboon-pack behaviour for which this place, and its predecessors, were notorious.

Given the subsisting degree of interest, I think I was too casual in my initial offerings (one on page 1 and a second on page 2).

It is of course not only Levy who requires to be (virtually speaking) strung up for his role. The fame-hungry idiot Zach too, and the habitual gasoliner and mediocrity-specialist Hyatt.

There were others in the shameful lynch mob of savage geladas.

Another of the incompetent minor perpetrators, holding a grudge because of his own minor commercial involvement at the time, has crawled into a position of influence here, so I won't name him.

The double-standards exhibited by the genus papio exceeded all their earlier efforts in that sphere.

Rybka taught a new type of chess, far beyond that played by the artistic program (Fruit) it allegedly copied.

The real nobility in this were Fabien and, of course, Mr and Mrs Vas.

Vas's childlike enthusiasm with 0.93 beta (or some similar), to show the CC world what was possible, leaving in it many traces of his goings to-and-fro within Fruit etc. With hindsight, he should have cleaned it all up (as he did by v2), even if it delayed matters a month or two. No one else was on the horizon. The "competition" for Fruit

Contrary opinions of double-digiters, and of those to whom I could easily concede odds of a knight OTB, are wholly uninteresting for me. Equally, their apologies. From ones so stupid, apologies simply have no meaning.

Clear enough now?

Enzo
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Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by Enzo » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:55 am

hgm wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:50 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:59 pm
Well, it's you who said that we can't know. We can.
I don't think so. You were not with Vas all the time. That it wasn't asked is just your opinion. You have shown no proof.
I was with Vas at the time.

Are you going to abuse your position as "mmmmoderator" yet again?

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hgm
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Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by hgm » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:25 am

And who are you?

You think criticizing dubious claims of omniscience is 'abusing my position as moderator'? Well, let me educate you: moderators are instated here to cleanse this forum of troublemakers that use personal attack rather than arguments to promote their opinions. Like you are doing here.

So to fulfil the task I was chosen to do here: consider your yourself warned, and from now on tread very carefully.

Enzo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:11 pm

Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by Enzo » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:30 am

Michel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:17 am
I really don't understand SNIP!
Had you only stopped there....

Where I come from, there is a famous saying.

"Better to stay silent, and so leave them in doubt, than to publicly expectorate and remove such doubts as subsisted."

Enzo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:11 pm

Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by Enzo » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:08 am

hgm wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:25 am
And who are you?
You think criticizing dubious claims of omniscience is 'abusing my position as moderator'? Well, let me educate you: moderators are instated here to cleanse this forum of troublemakers that use personal attack rather than arguments to promote their opinions. Like you are doing here.
So to fulfil the task I was chosen to do here: consider your yourself warned, and from now on tread very carefully.
Thank you.

BTW - unless you intended to abuse those who laugh at your "tool" as being inhuman or other than human, you should have used "who" instead of "that" above. No thanks needed.

Of course, you are only doing your duty, obeying orders, etc. Carry on.
chrisw wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:51 pm
hgm wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:44 pm
Rebel wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:49 pm
IT WAS NEVER ASKED [!]
How is that relevant? Chris accused him of having no intention to give it, even when asked. That is a pretty damning accusation.
Not even wrong. Troll.
Not even good at that?

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hgm
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Full name: H G Muller
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Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by hgm » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:28 am

Well, reading back through your postings in this thread I see that you have contributed nothing but personal attacks, insults and calls for violence...

So off you go! :lol:

chrisw
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: Time to rethink what Vasik Rajlich has done?

Post by chrisw » Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:04 pm

Enzo wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:51 am
I look away and this thread has multiplied, the usual baboon-pack behaviour for which this place, and its predecessors, were notorious.

Given the subsisting degree of interest, I think I was too casual in my initial offerings (one on page 1 and a second on page 2).

It is of course not only Levy who requires to be (virtually speaking) strung up for his role. The fame-hungry idiot Zach too, and the habitual gasoliner and mediocrity-specialist Hyatt.

There were others in the shameful lynch mob of savage geladas.

Another of the incompetent minor perpetrators, holding a grudge because of his own minor commercial involvement at the time, has crawled into a position of influence here, so I won't name him.

The double-standards exhibited by the genus papio exceeded all their earlier efforts in that sphere.

Rybka taught a new type of chess, far beyond that played by the artistic program (Fruit) it allegedly copied.

The real nobility in this were Fabien and, of course, Mr and Mrs Vas.

Vas's childlike enthusiasm with 0.93 beta (or some similar), to show the CC world what was possible, leaving in it many traces of his goings to-and-fro within Fruit etc. With hindsight, he should have cleaned it all up (as he did by v2), even if it delayed matters a month or two. No one else was on the horizon. The "competition" for Fruit

Contrary opinions of double-digiters, and of those to whom I could easily concede odds of a knight OTB, are wholly uninteresting for me. Equally, their apologies. From ones so stupid, apologies simply have no meaning.

Clear enough now?
Enzo,
I’m not sure if your ability to post here has been removed or not, but you are more than welcome at Ed’s Forum. Everything is very civilised and we don’t ban people for opinions we might not like.

Chris

https://prodeo.actieforum.com/

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