Stockfish 14 release round the corner

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bmp1974
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Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by bmp1974 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:55 am

Stockfish 14 may be released in couple of days. It is likely to have an 30-35 elo gain over SF 13.
SF14 with NNUE net trained from Lc0 training games. One gets to see best of both worlds!!

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Graham Banks
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:15 am

bmp1974 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:55 am
Stockfish 14 may be released in couple of days. It is likely to have an 30-35 elo gain over SF 13.
SF14 with NNUE net trained from Lc0 training games. One gets to see best of both worlds!!
Won't that pose an issue for testing groups?
At present, we only test NNUE engines that have nets trained on their own games.
gbanksnz at gmail.com

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towforce
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by towforce » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:28 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:15 am
bmp1974 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:55 am
Stockfish 14 may be released in couple of days. It is likely to have an 30-35 elo gain over SF 13. SF14 with NNUE net trained from Lc0 training games. One gets to see best of both worlds!!
Won't that pose an issue for testing groups? At present, we only test NNUE engines that have nets trained on their own games.

If it becomes an official release, then people will want the testers to test it.

I understand the risk of a proliferation of engines to test, and I don't have an answer right now.
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bmp1974
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by bmp1974 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:34 am

Graham Banks wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:15 am
bmp1974 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:55 am
Stockfish 14 may be released in couple of days. It is likely to have an 30-35 elo gain over SF 13.
SF14 with NNUE net trained from Lc0 training games. One gets to see best of both worlds!!
Won't that pose an issue for testing groups?
At present, we only test NNUE engines that have nets trained on their own games.
Everything seems to be fair & warm in the world of NNUE engines!
Fat Fritz 2.0 was eventually accepted so too SF 14 will be!

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Graham Banks
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:21 am

bmp1974 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:34 am
Graham Banks wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:15 am
bmp1974 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:55 am
Stockfish 14 may be released in couple of days. It is likely to have an 30-35 elo gain over SF 13.
SF14 with NNUE net trained from Lc0 training games. One gets to see best of both worlds!!
Won't that pose an issue for testing groups?
At present, we only test NNUE engines that have nets trained on their own games.
Everything seems to be fair & warm in the world of NNUE engines!
Fat Fritz 2.0 was eventually accepted so too SF 14 will be!
Different situation, as the NNUE engines that we test were trained on nets consisting of their own games and evaluations (including Fat Fritz).

This is the reason we've not tested Mayhem or the latest Gogobello, perhaps others I've forgotten about too.
gbanksnz at gmail.com

bmp1974
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by bmp1974 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:47 am

Do we really need to get into the muddy waters of 'Your engine eval and My net' more valid than 'My engine eval and Your net'?
Both types will coexist peacefully starting mid of 2021!

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pohl4711
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by pohl4711 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:56 am

bmp1974 wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:55 am
Stockfish 14 may be released in couple of days. It is likely to have an 30-35 elo gain over SF 13.
SF14 with NNUE net trained from Lc0 training games. One gets to see best of both worlds!!
https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... /pull/3596

IMHO, this is too early. +30 Elo? Before SF 12 each new release had +50 Elo in SF-regression tests (SF 8:+76 Elo, SF 9:+58 Elo, SF 10:+54 Elo, SF11 +53 Elo):
https://github.com/glinscott/fishtest/w ... sion-Tests
Then we had the huge NNUE-Elo jump to SF 12 (SF 12: +133 Elo)
SF 13 was +35 Elo, but was only released as a reaction to FatFritz 2, which was promoted by Chessbase as "the strongest engine". So, I see no need, to release a new version until +50 Elo in regression-tests are confirmed. Mention, that the regression-tests are played with 60sec+600ms on singlecore in the SF-framework. So, if SF is playing/analyzing with more thinking-time and/or more cores, the Elo-gain is much smaller than 50 Elo. So, a +30 Elo gain in regression-tests is not enough, I think, even though, the Elo-progression is getting harder, because of the increasing draw-rates in the SF-framework.

In my tests vs. other engines, SF dev is now +34 Elo stronger than SF 13: https://www.sp-cc.de
Last edited by pohl4711 on Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

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reflectionofpower
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by reflectionofpower » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:03 am

That would be the quickest new release of SF ever.
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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by Rebel » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:09 am

What's the difference between using an existing Stockfish net and creating your own net from Stockfish games?

And if there is a difference that would count for SF14.
90% of coding is debugging, the other 10% is writing bugs.

Colin-G
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Re: Stockfish 14 release round the corner

Post by Colin-G » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:28 am

I still use Stockfish 12 since v13 is no better when using a single cpu core.
I only have computers with dual core cpus and prefer just using a single core for my chess engine matches. A lot of my old engines only support 1 core anyway.
Until a new version is about +40 elo above v12 using 1 core, I will stay with v12.

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