Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

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AndrewGrant
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by AndrewGrant » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:07 am

AlexChess wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:25 am
Good news!
With the right net Ethereal 13.00 commercial could be strongly improved :)
Ethereal 12.75 sse3 github with Zeus.net is already stronger than Fat Fritz 2.0 (Chessbase, Stockfish 13 FF 2.1 github version is much stronger) and Dragon 2.0. ​

Please Andrew, unlock NNUE on the free version, to let testers to experiment. If you like I can give you all the games 12.75 NNUE games + Zeus.net (used also by AI-15) to study why with alien nets Ethereal become so strong, and rebuild your own net.
I think that testing 2 versions of the same engine is not enough, the performance must be calculated considering all the best engines availables.

PS: @Stefan Waiting for your SPCC accurate ranking with the "alien nets" with 6000 games, if possible :)
Now switching from Arena 3.5.1 to Banksiagui 0.46 that is more stable on engine matches.

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Regards, AlexChess
My SuperBlitz always updated: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-a ... e-fritz-17
Please stop making these posts. You only serve to confuse people with them.

"With the right net Ethereal 13.00 commercial could be strongly improved :) ", this is technically true, but when you say it a reader will take it to mean that they can use a different net, one from Stockfish, in Ethereal. This is not the case. It will not work. They are not compatible. The architecture is different. The quantization is different. The weight layouts are different.

I am not "unlocking" NNUE on the free version. It is why there is a commercial version. This would be like asking the Komodo team to "unlock" NNUE by back porting it to the K12 version that is free.

I have absolutely no interest in the results of Ethereal 12.75 using Stockfish networks. The entire point of making that version (Etherlito, a jab at Houdini and Fire), was to PROVE how trivial it was to socket in a Stockfish network and make your engine appear as if it knows how to play chess, when really you've done nothing but replace the majority of it.

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AlexChess
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by AlexChess » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:53 am

OK sorry, I'll post them only on my page. I was thinking to do a useful task as fine tuning and bugs reporting tester :)

It's a big frustration that I cannot test anymore last Ethereal 13.00 version, in my personal challenge to improve it with fine tuning.

PS: Since it is allowed, I hope that someone will fork the 13.00 github GPLv3 version compiling it also for Windows 10 ARM64 (since you say it's trivial) and adding SF NNUE support again.

Regards,
AlexChess
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
My engines SuperBlitz: https://bit.ly/3fIfp5H

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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by Chessqueen » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:33 pm

AlexChess wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:53 am
OK sorry, I'll post them only on my page. I was thinking to do a useful task as fine tuning and bugs reporting tester :)

It's a big frustration that I cannot test anymore last Ethereal 13.00 version, in my personal challenge to improve it with fine tuning.

PS: Since it is allowed, I hope that someone will fork the 13.00 github GPLv3 version compiling it also for Windows 10 ARM64 (since you say it's trivial) and adding SF NNUE support again.

Regards,
AlexChess

My congratulations to Ethereal for securing the spot the it earned from the very beginning at TCEC After the first 4 games it secured the last place and with great effort it did NOT let any other Engine take the place away, it kept it until the very end. Well Ethereal almost did the same as Kasparov :roll:
Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

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CMCanavessi
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by CMCanavessi » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:54 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:33 pm
My congratulations to Ethereal for securing the spot the it earned from the very beginning at TCEC After the first 4 games it secured the last place and with great effort it did NOT let any other Engine take the place away, it kept it until the very end. Well Ethereal almost did the same as Kasparov :roll:
It's still DivP... counting CPU engines, only 4 are ahead of Ethereal. All the rest are below.
Follow my tournament and some Leela gauntlets live at http://twitch.tv/ccls

Chessqueen
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by Chessqueen » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:15 pm

CMCanavessi wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:54 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:33 pm
My congratulations to Ethereal for securing the spot the it earned from the very beginning at TCEC After the first 4 games it secured the last place and with great effort it did NOT let any other Engine take the place away, it kept it until the very end. Well Ethereal almost did the same as Kasparov :roll:
It's still DivP... counting CPU engines, only 4 are ahead of Ethereal. All the rest are below.
Next time it will probably be on top once Ethereal get dropped to a lower division, so it will eventually climb back to div P again :roll: :mrgreen: :roll:
Do all chess hustlers talk trash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZNF7PUQqs

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AlexChess
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by AlexChess » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:36 am

Don't be rude, I have enjoyed Ethereal very much until 13.00 :)

My disappoint is related to the fact that, also buying the commercial version, it would not work fine on my Mac mini M1 and the github version is a dead end, just a demo weaker than 12.75 + NNUE. I consider NNUEs like Syzygy tablebases. Every programmer adds them to his engine, also if they are identical for all, or endgames play is much weaker. Without NNUE today an engine is <void>. Every programmer starts from an existing engine, adding then his own algorithms (better if the engine is hybrid) and Stockfish Team is more than happy if you share your knowledge forking SF and releasing your modified code.

Restarting all from scratch is at least to be considered stoic :D

Regards, AlexChess
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
My engines SuperBlitz: https://bit.ly/3fIfp5H

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mclane
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by mclane » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:51 pm

Some results of ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) so far:

https://prodeo.actieforum.com/t445-stoc ... 1000-games
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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AlexChess
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by AlexChess » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:57 pm

Hi CMCanavessi,

have you solved all the crashes experienced using Ethereal 13.00?

Regards, AlexChess
Chess engines and dedicated chess computers fan since 1981 :D Mac mini M1 8GB-256GB, Windows 11 & Ubuntu ARM64.
My engines SuperBlitz: https://bit.ly/3fIfp5H

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AlexChess
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by AlexChess » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm

Hi CMCanavessi,

Ethereal 13 standard github 1CPU loses vs Stockfish 14 and derivatives although it is 3 times faster on my test :shock:

Could you add also the no-NNUE version to your engine tournament?

Regards, AlexChess

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mclane
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Re: Commercial Release of Ethereal 13.00 (NNUE) for AVX2 Systems

Post by mclane » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:16 pm

Ethereal is stronger then stockfish 13/14 without NNUE.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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