what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw

Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Uri Blass »

Here is an example for winning stockfish at depth 1 without a queen.

I think that it may be interesting to see what is the maximal engine rating that it is possible to win without a queen.
The question is how to organize a tournament when part of the players start without a queen and engines do not resign.

Is there some interface that support it so I get only games when engines A,B,C play without queen d1 against engines D,E,F at some time control without resigning

It may be interesting to see what is practically the engine that get the best results in these conditions that may not be the engine with the highest rating.

D,E,F who play with queen advantage may be taken from the bottom of following list
https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/404/

Let say CCRL rating lower than 1800

A,B,C from the top of the same list:
Let say CCRL rating higher than 2800

I am practically sure that the weakest engine are going to lose even when the opponent start without queen d1.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-7QE6S12"]
[Date "2021.04.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "àåøé"]
[Black "Stockfish_21041512_x64_avx2"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "15:42:27"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "121"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. f4 Nc6 {(Nb8-c6) +12.96/1} 2. Nf3 e6 {(e7-e6) +12.86/1} 3. e4 Nf6
{(Ng8-f6) +12.96/1} 4. Nc3 a6 {(a7-a6) +12.71/1} 5. a3 Bc5 {(Bf8-c5)
+13.21/1} 6. b4 Bb6 {(Bc5-b6) +12.73/1} 7. Bb2 O-O {(O-O) +13.00/1} 8.
O-O-O g6 {(g7-g6) +13.09/1} 9. e5 Ng4 {(Nf6-g4) +13.11/1} 10. Ne4 h5
{(h7-h5) +13.09/1} 11. d4 d6 {(d7-d6) +13.09/1} 12. h3 Ne3 {(Ng4-e3)
+12.85/1} 13. Rd3 Nxf1 {(Ne3xf1 Rh1xf1) +12.90/1} 14. Rxf1 dxe5 {(d6xe5
f4xe5) +12.75/1} 15. fxe5 Kg7 {(Kg8-g7) +12.35/1} 16. Nf6 a5 {(a6-a5)
+12.15/1} 17. c3 axb4 {(a5xb4 a3xb4) +12.44/1} 18. axb4 Ra2 {(Ra8-a2)
+12.12/1} 19. Kb1 Ra4 {(Ra2-a4) +11.65/1} 20. Ng5 Nxe5 {(Nc6xe5) +13.32/1}
21. Rg3 h4 {(h5-h4) +13.25/1} 22. Nh5+ gxh5 {(g6xh5) +16.71/1} 23. Nxe6+
Kh8 {(Kg7-h8 Ne6xd8 h4xg3 d4xe5 Rf8xd8 Rf1xf7) +10.44/1} 24. Nxd8 hxg3
{(h4xg3) +10.44/1} 25. dxe5 Rxd8 {(Rf8xd8 Rf1xf7) +10.44/1} 26. Rxf7 h4
{(h5-h4) +10.40/1} 27. Bc1 Be6 {(Bc8-e6) +10.41/1} 28. Re7 Bf5+ {(Be6-f5+
Kb1-b2) +10.28/1} 29. Kb2 Kg8 {(Kh8-g8) +10.06/1} 30. Bg5 Bh7 {(Bf5-h7)
+9.63/1} 31. e6 Ra6 {(Ra4-a6) +10.29/1} 32. Rxh7 Re8 {(Rd8-e8) +4.74/1} 33.
Rxh4 Rxe6 {(Re8xe6) +5.55/1} 34. Rg4 Re2+ {(Re6-e2+ Kb2-b3 Re2xg2) +7.17/1}
35. Kb3 Ra1 {(Ra6-a1 Bg5-h4+ Kg8-h7 Bh4xg3) +5.09/1} 36. Rxg3 Rb1+
{(Ra1-b1+ Kb3-c4 Re2-e4+ Kc4-d3) +5.24/1} 37. Kc4 Rf1 {(Rb1-f1) +5.33/1}
38. Rg4 Kf8 {(Kg8-f8) +4.27/1} 39. h4 Kf7 {(Kf8-f7) +3.97/1} 40. h5 Re6
{(Re2-e6) +3.97/1} 41. Rh4 Bf2 {(Bb6-f2) +4.19/1} 42. Rf4+ Kg8 {(Kf7-g8)
+4.69/1} 43. g4 Rc6+ {(Re6-c6+ Kc4-b3) +3.89/1} 44. Kd3 Rd6+ {(Rc6-d6+
Kd3-e2) +4.95/1} 45. Ke2 Bh4 {(Bf2-h4 Rf4xf1) +2.82/1} 46. Rxf1 Bxg5
{(Bh4xg5) +2.82/1} 47. Rf5 Bh6 {(Bg5-h6) +1.59/1} 48. g5 Bf8 {(Bh6-f8)
+0.52/1} 49. h6 Rd7 {(Rd6-d7) +0.78/1} 50. Ke3 c6 {(c7-c6) +0.86/1} 51. Ke4
Be7 {(Bf8-e7) +0.58/1} 52. g6 b5 {(b7-b5) +0.19/1} 53. Rf7 Ra7 {(Rd7-a7)
-1.93/1} 54. Kf5 Rd7 {(Ra7-d7) -2.04/1} 55. Ke6 Rc7 {(Rd7-c7) -3.75/1} 56.
Rxe7 Rxe7+ {(Rc7xe7+ Ke6xe7) -3.75/1} 57. Kxe7 Kh8 {(Kg8-h8) -6.52/1} 58.
Kf7 c5 {(c6-c5 b4xc5) -9.40/1} 59. g7+ Kh7 {(Kh8-h7 b4xc5 Kh7xh6) -7.77/1}
60. g8=Q+ Kxh6 {(Kh7xh6 Qg8-g6+) -M1/1} 61. Qg6# *
[/pgn]
amanjpro
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:47 am
Full name: Amanj Sherwany

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by amanjpro »

I don't think any engine really needs any handicap against stockfish depth 1, I would go as far as depth 6 too really.
Chessqueen
Posts: 5588
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Chessqueen »

Uri Blass wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:52 pm Here is an example for winning stockfish at depth 1 without a queen.

I think that it may be interesting to see what is the maximal engine rating that it is possible to win without a queen.
The question is how to organize a tournament when part of the players start without a queen and engines do not resign.

Is there some interface that support it so I get only games when engines A,B,C play without queen d1 against engines D,E,F at some time control without resigning

It may be interesting to see what is practically the engine that get the best results in these conditions that may not be the engine with the highest rating.

D,E,F who play with queen advantage may be taken from the bottom of following list
https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/404/

Let say CCRL rating lower than 1800

A,B,C from the top of the same list:
Let say CCRL rating higher than 2800

I am practically sure that the weakest engine are going to lose even when the opponent start without queen d1.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-7QE6S12"]
[Date "2021.04.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "àåøé"]
[Black "Stockfish_21041512_x64_avx2"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "15:42:27"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "121"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. f4 Nc6 {(Nb8-c6) +12.96/1} 2. Nf3 e6 {(e7-e6) +12.86/1} 3. e4 Nf6
{(Ng8-f6) +12.96/1} 4. Nc3 a6 {(a7-a6) +12.71/1} 5. a3 Bc5 {(Bf8-c5)
+13.21/1} 6. b4 Bb6 {(Bc5-b6) +12.73/1} 7. Bb2 O-O {(O-O) +13.00/1} 8.
O-O-O g6 {(g7-g6) +13.09/1} 9. e5 Ng4 {(Nf6-g4) +13.11/1} 10. Ne4 h5
{(h7-h5) +13.09/1} 11. d4 d6 {(d7-d6) +13.09/1} 12. h3 Ne3 {(Ng4-e3)
+12.85/1} 13. Rd3 Nxf1 {(Ne3xf1 Rh1xf1) +12.90/1} 14. Rxf1 dxe5 {(d6xe5
f4xe5) +12.75/1} 15. fxe5 Kg7 {(Kg8-g7) +12.35/1} 16. Nf6 a5 {(a6-a5)
+12.15/1} 17. c3 axb4 {(a5xb4 a3xb4) +12.44/1} 18. axb4 Ra2 {(Ra8-a2)
+12.12/1} 19. Kb1 Ra4 {(Ra2-a4) +11.65/1} 20. Ng5 Nxe5 {(Nc6xe5) +13.32/1}
21. Rg3 h4 {(h5-h4) +13.25/1} 22. Nh5+ gxh5 {(g6xh5) +16.71/1} 23. Nxe6+
Kh8 {(Kg7-h8 Ne6xd8 h4xg3 d4xe5 Rf8xd8 Rf1xf7) +10.44/1} 24. Nxd8 hxg3
{(h4xg3) +10.44/1} 25. dxe5 Rxd8 {(Rf8xd8 Rf1xf7) +10.44/1} 26. Rxf7 h4
{(h5-h4) +10.40/1} 27. Bc1 Be6 {(Bc8-e6) +10.41/1} 28. Re7 Bf5+ {(Be6-f5+
Kb1-b2) +10.28/1} 29. Kb2 Kg8 {(Kh8-g8) +10.06/1} 30. Bg5 Bh7 {(Bf5-h7)
+9.63/1} 31. e6 Ra6 {(Ra4-a6) +10.29/1} 32. Rxh7 Re8 {(Rd8-e8) +4.74/1} 33.
Rxh4 Rxe6 {(Re8xe6) +5.55/1} 34. Rg4 Re2+ {(Re6-e2+ Kb2-b3 Re2xg2) +7.17/1}
35. Kb3 Ra1 {(Ra6-a1 Bg5-h4+ Kg8-h7 Bh4xg3) +5.09/1} 36. Rxg3 Rb1+
{(Ra1-b1+ Kb3-c4 Re2-e4+ Kc4-d3) +5.24/1} 37. Kc4 Rf1 {(Rb1-f1) +5.33/1}
38. Rg4 Kf8 {(Kg8-f8) +4.27/1} 39. h4 Kf7 {(Kf8-f7) +3.97/1} 40. h5 Re6
{(Re2-e6) +3.97/1} 41. Rh4 Bf2 {(Bb6-f2) +4.19/1} 42. Rf4+ Kg8 {(Kf7-g8)
+4.69/1} 43. g4 Rc6+ {(Re6-c6+ Kc4-b3) +3.89/1} 44. Kd3 Rd6+ {(Rc6-d6+
Kd3-e2) +4.95/1} 45. Ke2 Bh4 {(Bf2-h4 Rf4xf1) +2.82/1} 46. Rxf1 Bxg5
{(Bh4xg5) +2.82/1} 47. Rf5 Bh6 {(Bg5-h6) +1.59/1} 48. g5 Bf8 {(Bh6-f8)
+0.52/1} 49. h6 Rd7 {(Rd6-d7) +0.78/1} 50. Ke3 c6 {(c7-c6) +0.86/1} 51. Ke4
Be7 {(Bf8-e7) +0.58/1} 52. g6 b5 {(b7-b5) +0.19/1} 53. Rf7 Ra7 {(Rd7-a7)
-1.93/1} 54. Kf5 Rd7 {(Ra7-d7) -2.04/1} 55. Ke6 Rc7 {(Rd7-c7) -3.75/1} 56.
Rxe7 Rxe7+ {(Rc7xe7+ Ke6xe7) -3.75/1} 57. Kxe7 Kh8 {(Kg8-h8) -6.52/1} 58.
Kf7 c5 {(c6-c5 b4xc5) -9.40/1} 59. g7+ Kh7 {(Kh8-h7 b4xc5 Kh7xh6) -7.77/1}
60. g8=Q+ Kxh6 {(Kh7xh6 Qg8-g6+) -M1/1} 61. Qg6# *
[/pgn]

I do NOT exactly understand the question, but it would be more meaningful to find out , what would be the minimum human rating to beat Stockfish with a Queen Odds ? I believe that a low human 1700 FIDE can beat Stockfish or Komodo Dragon. But to find out the answer it will need to be tested in standard TC.

NOTE: Low rated engines around 1700 do NOT take advantage of having an extra Queen or Rook, but human would simply force to trade pieces whenever they have a chance :roll:
Who is 17 years old GM Gukesh 2nd at the Candidate in Toronto?
https://indianexpress.com/article/sport ... t-9281394/
Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Uri Blass »

amanjpro wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:19 pm I don't think any engine really needs any handicap against stockfish depth 1, I would go as far as depth 6 too really.
The point is that stockfish depth 1 is weak enough so even I have chances to beat it without a queen.

I did not test chess engines without a queen against stockfish depth 1 and it may be interesting to see what ccrl of engines you need to beat stockfish depth 1 without a queen.

Note that 22.Nh5+ was a mistake I did on purpose because I expected stockfish to blunder.
I thought 22.Nh5+ Kh6 is good for black but I hoped that stockfish thanks to depth 1 and pruning is going to capture the knight and not play Kh6.
Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Uri Blass »

stockfish depth 20 beat stockfish depth 1 without a queen easily because stockfish depth 1 make stupid blunders.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-7QE6S12"]
[Date "2021.04.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "àåøé"]
[Black "Stockfish_21041512_x64_avx2"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "18:53:08"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "61"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nf3 {(Ng1-f3 e7-e6 e2-e3 Bf8-e7 b2-b3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 Be7xf6
Nb1-c3 d7-d5 Bf1-d3 Nb8-d7 O-O a7-a6 e3-e4 c7-c6 Ra1-d1 g7-g6 e4xd5)
-12.25/20} e6 {(e7-e6) +12.40/1} 2. e3 {(e2-e3 Ng8-f6 b2-b3 Bf8-e7 Bc1-b2
O-O Bb2xf6 Be7xf6 Nb1-c3 d7-d5 O-O-O Nb8-d7 g2-g3 Nd7-c5 Kc1-b1 g7-g6 d2-d4
Nc5-d7 Bf1-b5 c7-c6 Bb5-d3 c6-c5) -12.28/20} Nc6 {(Nb8-c6) +12.42/1} 3. Bb5
{(Bf1-b5 g7-g6 O-O Ng8-e7 Bb5xc6 b7xc6 d2-d4 Bf8-g7 Nb1-c3 O-O g2-g3 Ne7-f5
Nc3-e4 h7-h5 Rf1-d1 Rf8-e8 Rd1-e1 Ra8-b8 b2-b3 Qd8-e7 c2-c4 f7-f6)
-12.25/20} g6 {(g7-g6) +12.55/1} 4. Bxc6 {(Bb5xc6 b7xc6 O-O Ng8-e7 d2-d4
Bf8-g7 Nb1-c3 O-O Rf1-d1 h7-h5 Nc3-e4 Ra8-b8 Nf3-d2 Rb8-b5 Ne4-c3 Rb5-f5
Nd2-c4 f7-f6) -12.25/20} bxc6 {(b7xc6) +12.32/1} 5. O-O {(O-O Bf8-g7 d2-d4
Ng8-e7 Nb1-c3 O-O Bc1-d2 h7-h5 b2-b3 Rf8-e8 Nc3-e4 a7-a5 c2-c3 Ne7-f5
Ne4-c5 Nf5-d6 Ra1-e1 f7-f5 Nc5-d3 a5-a4) -12.20/20} Nf6 {(Ng8-f6) +12.00/1}
6. b3 {(b2-b3 d7-d6 Bc1-b2 e6-e5 d2-d4 e5-e4 Nf3-d2 Bc8-f5 Nb1-c3 d6-d5
Nd2-b1 Bf8-g7 Bb2-a3 h7-h5 h2-h3 a7-a5 Nb1-d2 Nf6-d7 Nc3-a4 Qd8-g5 Na4-c5
Nd7xc5 Ba3xc5 Bf5xh3) -11.86/20} Ne4 {(Nf6-e4) +12.27/1} 7. Bb2 {(Bc1-b2
f7-f6 Nb1-c3 Ne4-d6 Bb2-a3 Bf8-e7 Nf3-e1 O-O f2-f3 f6-f5 Ba3xd6 Be7xd6
f3-f4 a7-a5 Ne1-d3 Qd8-h4 h2-h3 g6-g5 f4xg5 Qh4xg5) -11.48/20} f6 {(f7-f6)
+12.32/1} 8. Nc3 {(Nb1-c3 Ne4xc3 Bb2xc3 Bf8-e7 d2-d3 O-O a2-a4 e6-e5 d3-d4
e5xd4 Bc3xd4 c6-c5 Bd4-c3 d7-d6 Nf3-d2 d6-d5 e3-e4 Bc8-e6 e4xd5 Qd8xd5
Nd2-c4) -11.47/20} Nc5 {(Ne4-c5) +11.62/1} 9. Ba3 {(Bb2-a3 Ke8-f7 Nc3-a4
Nc5xa4 Ba3xf8 Qd8xf8 b3xa4 Qf8-a3 Rf1-c1 Qa3xa4 d2-d3 Kf7-g7 Nf3-d2 Qa4-a5
Nd2-b3 Qa5-f5 d3-d4 Rh8-f8 a2-a4 e6-e5 d4xe5 Qf5xe5 Nb3-d4) -11.09/20} f5
{(f6-f5) +12.01/1} 10. Ne5 {(Nf3-e5 Bf8-d6 Ne5-d3 Nc5-b7 Ba3xd6 c7xd6 f2-f4
O-O Rf1-f3 d6-d5 Ra1-d1 Qd8-f6 Nd3-e5 Rf8-d8 a2-a4 a7-a5 Rf3-g3 Nb7-d6
Rd1-e1 c6-c5 h2-h3) -11.05/20} Nxb3 {(Nc5xb3 c2xb3) +11.94/1} 11. axb3
{(a2xb3 Bf8-g7 Ne5-d3 Bg7xc3 d2xc3 d7-d6 f2-f3 c6-c5 e3-e4 O-O c3-c4 h7-h5
Ra1-d1 Qd8-e7 b3-b4 c5xb4 Ba3xb4 a7-a5 Bb4-c3 a5-a4 e4xf5 g6xf5) -8.71/20}
Bg7 {(Bf8-g7) +8.09/1} 12. Nc4 {(Ne5-c4 Bg7xc3 d2xc3 a7-a6 Rf1-d1 Rh8-g8
f2-f4 Qd8-f6 Rd1-d3 Qf6-g7 Ba3-c5 g6-g5 f4xg5 d7-d5 Nc4-b2 Qg7xg5 Rd3-d2
Bc8-d7 Nb2-d3) -8.55/20} Bxc3 {(Bg7xc3 d2xc3) +9.13/1} 13. dxc3 {(d2xc3
a7-a6 Ba3-c5 Rh8-g8 Rf1-d1 h7-h5 Ra1-a5 g6-g5 f2-f3 Bc8-b7 e3-e4 f5xe4
f3xe4 Qd8-f6 Bc5-d4 Qf6-e7 Bd4-c5 d7-d6 Bc5-d4 c6-c5) -8.63/20} a5 {(a7-a5)
+8.94/1} 14. Bb4 {(Ba3-b4 a5-a4 Bb4-a5 O-O Ra1xa4 Ra8-a6 Nc4-b2 c6-c5 c3-c4
d7-d6 Ba5-c3 Ra6-c6 Nb2-d3 g6-g5 Ra4-a8 Qd8-e8 Ra8xc8 Qe8xc8 g2-g3 h7-h5
h2-h4 g5xh4 g3xh4) -7.98/20} Kf7 {(Ke8-f7 Bb4xa5) +8.36/1} 15. Bxa5
{(Bb4xa5 Bc8-a6 Nc4-e5+ Kf7-f6 Ne5-d3 d7-d6 c3-c4 Rh8-e8 c4-c5 Qd8-e7
Ba5-c3+ Kf6-f7 Ra1-a5 Ba6-b7 Ra5xa8 Re8xa8 Rf1-a1 Ra8-b8 b3-b4 e6-e5 Ra1-a7
h7-h5 Ra7xb7 Rb8xb7) -7.32/20} Kg7 {(Kf7-g7) +8.09/1} 16. Bxc7 {(Ba5xc7
Ra8xa1 Bc7-e5+ Kg7-h6 Rf1xa1 d7-d5 Nc4-a5 Rh8-g8 Na5xc6 Qd8-d7 Nc6-d4 g6-g5
h2-h3 Kh6-h5 Nd4-f3 Qd7-b5 Nf3-d4 Qb5-c5 Nd4-f3 g5-g4 Be5-d4 Qc5-b5 h3xg4+
f5xg4 Nf3-e5 Qb5-e2) -4.40/20} Rxa1 {(Ra8xa1 Bc7xd8 Ra1xf1+ Kg1xf1 Rh8xd8)
+5.94/1} 17. Be5+ {(Bc7-e5+ Kg7-h6 Rf1xa1 Rh8-f8 Nc4-d6 Qd8-b6 Nd6-c4
Qb6-b5 Ra1-a5 Qb5-b7 Nc4-d6 Qb7-b6 b3-b4 c6-c5 Ra5-b5 Qb6-a6 h2-h3 Qa6-a1+
Kg1-h2 Bc8-a6 Rb5-a5 Qa1-f1 b4-b5 Ba6xb5 Ra5xb5 Qf1xf2 Rb5-b7 Qf2xe3 Nd6-c4
Qe3-e2 Be5-d6) -4.59/20} Kh6 {(Kg7-h6 Rf1xa1) +5.82/1} 18. Rxa1 {(Rf1xa1
Rh8-f8 Nc4-d6 c6-c5 Ra1-a7 Kh6-h5 Nd6-c4 Qd8-h4 Nc4-d6 f5-f4 Ra7-a4 g6-g5
Nd6xc8 Rf8xc8 h2-h3 Kh5-g6 e3xf4 g5xf4 Be5xf4 Qh4-f6 Bf4-e3) -4.78/20} Rf8
{(Rh8-f8) +5.72/1} 19. Nd6 {(Nc4-d6 Qd8-b6 Nd6-c4 Qb6-b5 Ra1-a5 Qb5-b7
Nc4-d6 Qb7-b6 b3-b4 c6-c5 Ra5xc5 Bc8-a6 h2-h4 Kh6-h5 Nd6-e4 f5xe4 Be5-c7+
Qb6xc5 b4xc5 Kh5xh4 Bc7-g3+ Kh4-g4 Bg3-d6 Rf8-f5) -4.74/20} Qh4 {(Qd8-h4
Nd6xc8) +5.17/1} 20. Ra8 {(Ra1-a8 g6-g5 h2-h3 Qh4-h5 Ra8xc8 Rf8xc8 Nd6xc8
Qh5-e2 h3-h4 Qe2-e1+ Kg1-h2 Qe1xf2 h4xg5+ Kh6xg5 Be5-f4+ Kg5-g4 Nc8-b6
Qf2-h4+ Kh2-g1 Qh4-e1+ Kg1-h2 d7-d6 Bf4xd6 Qe1xe3 Nb6-c4 Qe3-h6+ Kh2-g1
Kg4-h5 Kg1-h2) -4.83/20 1} c5 {(c6-c5 Nd6xc8) +2.13/1} 21. Rxc8 {(Ra8xc8
Rf8xc8 Nd6xc8 Qh4-e4 Nc8-d6 Qe4xc2 h2-h3 g6-g5 f2-f3 Qc2xb3 e3-e4 Qb3-c2
Kg1-h2 Kh6-g6 c3-c4 Qc2-d3 Kh2-h1 f5-f4 Kh1-h2 h7-h6 Kh2-g1 Qd3-d1+ Kg1-h2
Qd1-e2 Be5-h8 Qe2-e3 Bh8-e5) -4.62/20} Rxc8 {(Rf8xc8 Nd6xc8) +2.51/1} 22.
Nxc8 {(Nd6xc8 Qh4-e4 Nc8-d6 Qe4xc2 h2-h4 Qc2xb3 Kg1-h2 Qb3-c2 Kh2-g3 Qc2-e2
Be5-f6 f5-f4+ Kg3-h3 f4xe3 Bf6-g5+ Kh6-g7 f2xe3 Qe2-d2 Nd6-e8+ Kg7-f7
Ne8-f6 h7-h6 Nf6-e4 Qd2-d5) -4.70/20} g5 {(g6-g5) +3.82/1} 23. Nd6 {(Nc8-d6
Kh6-g6 Be5-g3 Qh4-h6 Bg3-e5 f5-f4 Nd6-c4 d7-d5 Nc4-d2 f4xe3 f2xe3 Qh6-h5
Nd2-f1 Qh5-d1 b3-b4 Kg6-f5 Be5-h8 Qd1-b1 g2-g4+ Kf5xg4 b4xc5 Qb1xc2)
-4.40/20} Kg6 {(Kh6-g6) +3.92/1} 24. e4 {(e3-e4 f5xe4 Nd6-c4 Qh4-g4 Nc4-e3
Qg4-e2 g2-g4 Qe2-d2 Be5-h8 d7-d5 h2-h3 h7-h5 b3-b4 h5xg4 Ne3xg4 c5xb4 c3xb4
Qd2xb4 Ng4-e5+ Kg6-f5) -4.61/20 1} f4 {(f5-f4) +4.89/1} 25. b4 {(b3-b4
Qh4-h5 f2-f3 Qh5-h4 h2-h3 Qh4-e1+ Kg1-h2 c5xb4 c3xb4 Qe1xb4 Nd6-e8 Qb4-b6
c2-c3 d7-d6 Be5xd6 Qb6-d8 c3-c4 Qd8xe8 c4-c5 Kg6-f7 h3-h4 Qe8-d8 Bd6-e5
g5xh4) -4.85/20} h5 {(h7-h5 b4xc5) +3.80/1} 26. b5 {(b4-b5 g5-g4 g2-g3
f4xg3 h2xg3 Qh4-g5 Be5-f4 Qg5-f6 e4-e5 Qf6-d8 Kg1-h2 Qd8-a5 c3-c4 Qa5-e1
Kh2-g2 Qe1-c3 b5-b6 h5-h4 g3xh4 Qc3-f3+ Kg2-g1 Qf3xf4 b6-b7 Qf4-c1+ Kg1-g2
Qc1-b2 c2-c3 Qb2-b1 Kg2-g3 Kg6-h5 f2-f3 g4xf3 Kg3xf3 Kh5xh4) -3.48/20} Qg4
{(Qh4-g4) +4.06/1} 27. f3 {(f2-f3 Qg4-h4 Kg1-f1 Qh4xh2 b5-b6 Qh2-h1+ Kf1-f2
Qh1-b1 b6-b7 Qb1xc2+ Kf2-g1 Qc2-b1+ Kg1-f2 Qb1-b2+ Kf2-e1 Qb2-b6 c3-c4
h5-h4 Ke1-f1 Kg6-h5 Kf1-e2 g5-g4 Be5xf4 h4-h3 g2xh3 Qb6-b2+ Ke2-e3 g4xh3)
-2.48/20} Qh4 {(Qg4-h4) +3.30/1} 28. Kf1 {(Kg1-f1 Qh4xh2 b5-b6 Qh2-h1+
Kf1-f2 Qh1-c1 b6-b7 Qc1xc2+ Kf2-e1 Qc2-b1+ Ke1-d2 Qb1-b6 c3-c4 h5-h4 Kd2-d3
Kg6-h5 Kd3-e2 g5-g4 Be5xf4 Qb6-b2+ Ke2-e3 Qb2-b3+ Ke3-d2 h4-h3 g2xh3 g4xf3
Bf4-g3 Qb3-b2+ Kd2-d3 e6-e5 Nd6-b5) -2.94/20} c4 {(c5-c4) +2.90/1} 29. b6
{(b5-b6 Qh4xh2 b6-b7 Qh2-h1+ Kf1-f2 Qh1-c1 b7-b8R Qc1-d2+ Kf2-f1 Qd2-d1+
Kf1-f2) 0.00/20} g4 {(g5-g4) +2.24/1} 30. b7 {(b6-b7 Qh4xh2 Nd6xc4 Qh2-h1+
Kf1-e2 Qh1xg2+ Ke2-d1 Qg2xf3+ Kd1-c1 Qf3xe4 b7-b8Q Qe4xc4 Qb8-h8 Qc4-f1+
Kc1-b2 Qf1-b5+ Kb2-a2 Qb5-c4+ Ka2-a3 Qc4-a6+ Ka3-b4 Qa6-b6+ Kb4-a4 Qb6-a6+)
0.00/20} Qd8 {(Qh4-d8 Nd6xc4) -1.95/1 0} 31. Nb5 {(Nd6-b5 g4xf3 g2xf3 d7-d5
b7-b8Q Qd8xb8 Be5xb8 d5xe4 f3xe4 Kg6-g5 Kf1-f2 Kg5-g4 Nb5-d4 Kg4-g5 Nd4xe6+
Kg5-f6 Ne6xf4 h5-h4 Kf2-e3 Kf6-f7 e4-e5) +10.59/20 0} *[/pgn]
Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Uri Blass »

depth 2 is losing even faster

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-7QE6S12"]
[Date "2021.04.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "àåøé"]
[Black "Stockfish_21041512_x64_avx2"]
[Result "*"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Time "19:07:59"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nf3 {(Ng1-f3 e7-e6 e2-e3 Bf8-e7 b2-b3 Ng8-f6 Bc1-b2 O-O Bb2xf6 Be7xf6
Nb1-c3 d7-d5 Bf1-d3 Nb8-d7 O-O a7-a6 e3-e4 c7-c6 Ra1-d1 g7-g6 e4xd5)
-12.25/20} Nc6 {(Nb8-c6 c2-c3) +12.67/2 0} 2. e3 {(e2-e3 g7-g6 Bf1-b5 e7-e6
Bb5xc6 b7xc6 d2-d4 Ng8-e7 O-O Bf8-g7 Nb1-c3 O-O Nc3-e2 Ra8-b8 Rf1-d1 Ne7-f5
e3-e4 Nf5-e7 Ne2-f4 f7-f5) -12.25/20 0} Nb4 {(Nc6-b4 c2-c3 Nb4-c2+ Ke1-d1)
+16.78/2 0} 3. Na3 {(Nb1-a3 Ng8-f6 c2-c3 Nb4-d5 d2-d4 e7-e6 Na3-c4 g7-g6
Bf1-d3 Bf8-g7 e3-e4 Nd5-e7 e4-e5 Nf6-d5 Bc1-g5 h7-h6 Bg5xe7 Qd8xe7 Ra1-d1
O-O O-O) -12.06/20 0} Nf6 {(Ng8-f6 c2-c3) +12.58/2 0} 4. c3 {(c2-c3 Nb4-d5
Na3-c4 g7-g6 d2-d4 c7-c6 Bf1-d3 Bf8-g7 e3-e4 Nd5-c7 O-O O-O g2-g3 d7-d6
Bc1-g5 Nc7-e6 Bg5xf6 Bg7xf6 e4-e5 Bf6-g7 Bd3-e4 f7-f6) -12.01/20 0} Nbd5
{(Nb4-d5 b2-b3) +13.05/2 0} 5. Nc4 {(Na3-c4 g7-g6 d2-d4 c7-c6 Bf1-d3 Nd5-c7
e3-e4 Bf8-g7 Bc1-g5 O-O O-O Nf6-h5 g2-g4 Nh5-f6 h2-h3 Nc7-e6 Bg5xf6 Bg7xf6
Ra1-d1 d7-d5) -12.09/20 0} e6 {(e7-e6 g2-g3) +13.05/2 0} 6. d4 {(d2-d4
c7-c6 Bf1-d3 Nd5-c7 e3-e4 d7-d5 e4xd5 e6xd5 Nc4-e5 Bf8-d6 O-O h7-h5 Bc1-e3
O-O Ra1-d1 Qd8-e7 g2-g3 g7-g6) -12.01/20 0} b5 {(b7-b5 g2-g3 b5xc4)
+15.75/2 0} 7. Nce5 {(Nc4-e5 Bf8-e7 Bf1xb5 O-O O-O Bc8-b7 Ne5-d3 h7-h6
Nd3-f4 Nd5-b6 a2-a4 c7-c6 Bb5-d3 a7-a5 Ra1-a2 g7-g5 Nf4-e2 d7-d6 Ne2-g3
Nb6-d5 Ng3-e4 Nf6xe4) -11.13/20 0} b4 {(b5-b4 c3xb4) +12.69/2 0} 8. c4
{(c3-c4 Nd5-b6 Nf3-g5 Nf6-g4 Ne5xf7 Qd8-f6 f2-f3 Ng4-h6 Nf7xh8 Qf6xg5 c4-c5
Nb6-d5 e3-e4 Qg5-h4+ g2-g3 Qh4-f6 e4xd5 Qf6xf3 Rh1-g1 Qf3-e4+ Bf1-e2 Bc8-a6
Rg1-g2 Qe4xg2 Be2xa6 Qg2xd5 Ba6-d3 g7-g6 Bc1-e3 Nh6-f5 Bd3xf5) -9.96/20 0}
Ne7 {(Nd5-e7 b2-b3) +12.28/2 0} 9. Ng5 {(Nf3-g5 Ne7-g6 Ng5xf7 Qd8-e7 Ne5xg6
Qe7xf7 Ng6xh8 Qf7-g8 Nh8-g6 h7xg6 Bf1-d3 Qg8-f7 O-O Bc8-b7 b2-b3 O-O-O
a2-a3 Kc8-b8 a3xb4 Bf8xb4 Bc1-a3 Bb4-c3 Ra1-c1 Bc3-a5 b3-b4 Ba5-b6 b4-b5)
-8.32/20 0} b3 {(b4-b3 a2xb3) +11.44/2 0} 10. Nexf7 {(Ne5xf7 h7-h6 Ng5xe6
d7xe6 Nf7xd8 b3xa2 Nd8xe6 Bc8xe6 Ra1xa2 Ne7-c6 Ra2-a6 Bf8-b4+ Bc1-d2 Be6-d7
Bf1-d3 Ra8-b8 Bd2-c3 Bb4xc3+ b2xc3 Rb8-b3 Bd3-g6+ Ke8-e7 O-O Rb3xc3 c4-c5
Rh8-b8 Rf1-d1 Rc3-b3 d4-d5 Nc6-e5) -5.70/20 0} bxa2 {(b3xa2 Nf7xd8) +5.01/2
0} 11. Nxd8 {(Nf7xd8 Rh8-g8 Nd8xe6 d7xe6 Ra1xa2 h7-h6 Ng5-f3 Ne7-c6 c4-c5
a7-a5 Bf1-b5 Bc8-d7 O-O g7-g5 Bc1-d2 Nf6-e4 Bd2-c3 g5-g4 Nf3-e1 Ne4xc3
b2xc3 Nc6-e7 Bb5xd7+ Ke8xd7 Ne1-d3) -1.78/20 0} h6 {(h7-h6 Ra1xa2) +2.65/2
0} 12. Ngf7 {(Ng5-f7 Rh8-h7 Bc1-d2 g7-g6 Ra1xa2 Rh7xf7 Nd8xf7 Ke8xf7 b2-b4
Nf6-e4 Bf1-d3 Bc8-b7 f2-f3 Ne4xd2 Ke1xd2 Ne7-c6 b4-b5 Nc6-b4 Ra2-a5 Nb4xd3
Kd2xd3 a7-a6 Rh1-a1 Bf8-b4 b5xa6 Bb4xa5) -0.27/20 0} Rg8 {(Rh8-g8 Ra1xa2)
-1.65/2 0} 13. Be2 {(Bf1-e2 a7-a5 Ra1xa2 Ne7-f5 c4-c5 Bf8-e7 Nd8xe6 d7xe6
Nf7-e5 Nf6-d7 Be2-h5+ g7-g6 Ne5xg6 Nd7-f6 Bh5-f3 Nf6-d5 Ng6-f4 Nf5-h4
Bf3-e4 Ra8-a6 Nf4xd5 e6xd5 Be4xd5 Rg8-g5 Bd5-c4 Rg5xg2 Bc4xa6 Bc8xa6)
-0.02/20 1} Ne4 {(Nf6-e4 Ra1xa2) -1.01/2 0} 14. Bf3 {(Be2-f3 d7-d5 Bf3-d1
Bc8-d7 f2-f3 Ne4-f6 c4-c5 Ra8xd8 Nf7xd8 Ke8xd8 Ra1xa2 Ne7-c6 Bd1-e2 e6-e5
d4xe5 Bf8xc5 e5xf6 Nc6-b4 Ra2-a5 Bc5-b6 Ra5-b5 Bd7xb5 Be2xb5 g7xf6 g2-g4
a7-a6 Bb5-a4 Nb4-d3+ Ke1-e2) +0.45/20 0} Rb8 {(Ra8-b8 Bf3xe4) -2.05/2 0}
15. Bxe4 {(Bf3xe4 Bc8-a6 c4-c5 Ba6-b5 Ra1xa2 a7-a6 Be4-h7 g7-g6 Bh7xg8
Ne7xg8 h2-h4 Bf8-e7 Nd8xe6 d7xe6 Nf7-e5 Be7-f6 Ne5xg6 Ke8-f7 h4-h5 Bb5-c4
Ra2-a4 Bc4-b5 Ra4-a3 Ng8-e7 Ng6xe7 Kf7xe7 f2-f3 Bb5-c4) +5.41/20 0} *
[/pgn]
Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Uri Blass »

Rybka without a queen got a draw against stockfish at depth 3.

Here is the game

[pgn][Event "Uri1.at"]
[Site "DESKTOP-7QE6S12"]
[Date "2021.04.29"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Rybka 2.3.2a 64 bit"]
[Black "Stockfish_21022619_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2200"]
[Time "19:56:07"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "155"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. Nc3 {(Nb1-c3) -5.09/3} Nf6 {(Ng8-f6 e2-e3 Nb8-c6) +12.65/3} 2. Nf3
{(Ng1-f3) -5.07/3} Nc6 {(Nb8-c6 e2-e3 e7-e6) +12.55/3} 3. d3 {(d2-d3)
-5.21/3} b6 {(b7-b6 e2-e3 e7-e6) +12.63/3} 4. Bg5 {(Bc1-g5) -5.02/3} Nb4
{(Nc6-b4 Ke1-d1 e7-e6) +12.63/3} 5. Rc1 {(Ra1-c1) -5.13/3} e6 {(e7-e6
Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +12.40/3} 6. a3 {(a2-a3) -5.23/3} Na6 {(Nb4-a6 Bg5xf6
Qd8xf6) +12.09/3} 7. Ne5 {(Nf3-e5) -4.96/3} Nc5 {(Na6-c5 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6)
+12.32/3} 8. b4 {(b2-b4) -4.95/3} Nb7 {(Nc5-b7 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +12.09/3} 9.
Rb1 {(Rc1-b1) -4.83/3} Nd6 {(Nb7-d6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +12.40/3} 10. e4
{(e2-e4) -5.49/3} c6 {(c7-c6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +12.32/3} 11. Be2 {(Bf1-e2)
-4.67/3} g6 {(g7-g6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +12.32/3} 12. O-O {-4.58/3 (O-O)} h5
{(h7-h5 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +11.86/3} 13. f4 {(f2-f4) -4.70/3} a5 {(a7-a5 Bg5xf6
Qd8xf6) +11.86/3} 14. bxa5 {(b4xa5) -4.88/3} bxa5 {(b6xa5 Nc3-d1 a5-a4)
+12.01/3} 15. a4 {(a3-a4) -4.65/3} Bg7 {(Bf8-g7 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +11.78/3}
16. Rb3 {(Rb1-b3) -4.75/3} O-O {(O-O Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6) +12.25/3} 17. Rfb1
{(Rf1-b1) -4.83/3} Ra6 {(Ra8-a6 Rb1-d1 c6-c5) +12.48/3} 18. Bh4 {(Bg5-h4)
-5.22/3} Re8 {(Rf8-e8 Rb1-d1 c6-c5) +12.25/3} 19. Bf2 {(Bh4-f2) -4.73/3}
Bh6 {(Bg7-h6 Rb3-b6 Bh6xf4) +12.94/3} 20. Bc5 {(Bf2-c5) -4.73/3} Qe7
{(Qd8-e7 Bc5xd6 Qe7xd6) +12.17/3} 21. Rf1 {(Rb1-f1) -4.08/3} h4 {(h5-h4
Bc5xd6 Qe7xd6) +12.09/3} 22. Nc4 {(Ne5-c4) -2.88/3} Bb7 {(Bc8-b7 Nc4xd6
Bb7-a8) +5.65/3} 23. Bxd6 {(Bc5xd6) -0.92/3} Qd8 {(Qe7-d8 Rb3xb7 Qd8-a8)
+2.01/3} 24. Rxb7 {(Rb3xb7) -0.94/3} Bf8 {(Bh6-f8 Rf1-b1 Bf8xd6 Nc4xd6)
+1.75/3} 25. Rfb1 {(Rf1-b1) -1.04/3} h3 {(h4-h3 Bd6xf8 Re8xf8) +2.01/3} 26.
e5 {(e4-e5) -0.48/3} Nd5 {(Nf6-d5 Nc3xd5 c6xd5) +1.94/3} 27. Nxd5 {(Nc3xd5)
-1.20/3} cxd5 {(c6xd5 Bd6xf8 Re8xf8) +2.63/3} 28. Rb8 {(Rb7-b8) -1.16/3}
Bxd6 {(Bf8xd6 Nc4xd6 Qd8xb8) +2.56/3} 29. Rxd8 {(Rb8xd8) -1.89/3} Bc5+
{(Bd6-c5+ Kg1-f1 Re8xd8 g2xh3) +4.75/3} 30. Kf1 {(Kg1-f1) -1.96/3} Rxd8
{(Re8xd8 g2xh3 d5xc4) +4.75/3} 31. Rb5 {(Rb1-b5) -1.91/3} Rc8 {(Rd8-c8
g2xh3 d5xc4) +4.90/3} 32. Nxa5 {(Nc4xa5) -1.98/3} g5 {(g6-g5 g2xh3 g5xf4)
+4.74/3} 33. fxg5 {(f4xg5) -0.62/3} Bd4 {(Bc5-d4 g2xh3 Rc8xc2) +3.21/3} 34.
gxh3 {(g2xh3) -0.79/3} Rxc2 {(Rc8xc2 Rb5-b8+ Kg8-g7 Na5-b3) +4.80/3} 35.
Nb3 {(Na5-b3) -0.82/3} Rxa4 {(Ra6xa4 Nb3xd4 Ra4xd4) +5.12/3} 36. Nxd4
{(Nb3xd4) -0.61/3} Rxd4 {(Ra4xd4 Kf1-g2 Rc2xe2+ Kg2-f3) +6.40/3} 37. Ke1
{(Kf1-e1) -0.86/3} Kf8 {(Kg8-f8 Ke1-d1 Rc2-a2) +5.01/3} 38. Rb7 {(Rb5-b7)
-0.70/3} Ke7 {(Kf8-e7 Ke1-d1 Rc2-a2) +5.15/3} 39. Ra7 {(Rb7-a7) -1.21/3}
Rb2 {(Rc2-b2 Ke1-d1 Rd4-b4) +4.71/3} 40. Rc7 {(Ra7-c7) -1.27/3} Rf4
{(Rd4-f4 Be2-g4 Rb2xh2) +5.80/3} 41. Ra7 {(Rc7-a7) -1.93/3} d4 {(d5-d4
Be2-g4 Rb2xh2) +5.63/3} 42. Ra5 {(Ra7-a5) -1.07/3} Rf5 {(Rf4-f5 Be2-g4
Rf5xg5) +7.00/3} 43. h4 {(h3-h4) -1.15/3} Rb1+ {(Rb2-b1+ Be2-d1 Rf5-f3
h4-h5) +5.37/3} 44. Bd1 {(Be2-d1) -1.45/3} Rf3 {(Rf5-f3 h4-h5 Rf3xd3)
+5.37/3} 45. Ra2 {(Ra5-a2) -2.60/3} Rxd3 {(Rf3xd3 h4-h5 Rd3xd1+ Ke1-f2)
+5.99/3} 46. Rd2 {(Ra2-d2) -2.53/3} Re3+ {(Rd3-e3+ Ke1-f2 Re3xe5 Rd2xd4)
+8.98/3} 47. Kf2 {(Ke1-f2) -2.22/3} Rxe5 {(Re3xe5 Rd2xd4 Re5-f5+ Kf2-g3)
+8.13/3} 48. Rxd4 {(Rd2xd4) -1.74/3} Ra5 {(Re5-a5 Kf2-g3 Ra5-a3+ Bd1-f3)
+8.40/3} 49. Rd2 {(Rd4-d2) -1.57/3} Rf5+ {(Ra5-f5+ Kf2-g3 Rf5-b5 Bd1-b3)
+9.80/3} 50. Kg3 {(Kf2-g3) -1.64/3} Ra5 {(Rf5-a5 Rd2-a2 Ra5xa2) +7.25/3}
51. Kf2 {(Kg3-f2) 0.00/3} d5 {(d7-d5 Kf2-g3 Ra5-a3+ Kg3-g2) +8.24/3} 52. h5
{(h4-h5) -1.27/3} Kf8 {(Ke7-f8 Kf2-g3 Ra5-a3+ Bd1-f3) +5.89/3} 53. h6
{(h5-h6) -1.09/3} Ra8 {(Ra5-a8 Kf2-g3 Ra8-a3+ Bd1-f3 Rb1-g1+ Kg3-f4)
+3.82/3} 54. Be2 {(Bd1-e2) -0.90/3} Ra4 {(Ra8-a4 Kf2-g3 Rb1-g1+ Kg3-f2
Rg1xg5) +5.02/3} 55. Rc2 {(Rd2-c2) -0.67/3} Rb8 {(Rb1-b8 Kf2-g3 Rb8-b3+
Kg3-g2) +3.59/3} 56. Rc3 {(Rc2-c3) -0.97/3} d4 {(d5-d4 Be2-d1 d4xc3)
+7.55/3} 57. Rc7 {(Rc3-c7) -0.96/3} Kg8 {(Kf8-g8 Kf2-g3 Ra4-a3+ Kg3-h4)
+2.02/3} 58. Bh5 {(Be2-h5) -0.72/3} Rf8 {(Rb8-f8 Kf2-g3 Ra4-a6) +1.19/3}
59. Kf3 {(Kf2-f3) -0.80/3} d3 {(d4-d3 Bh5-g4 Ra4-a1) +2.87/3} 60. Ke3
{(Kf3-e3) -1.16/3} Rh4 {(Ra4-h4 Ke3xd3 Rh4xh5) +2.71/3} 61. h7+ {(h6-h7+)
-1.04/3} Kxh7 {(Kg8xh7 Bh5xf7 Rh4-h3+ Ke3-e4) +3.26/3} 62. Bxf7 {(Bh5xf7)
-0.77/3} Rh3+ {(Rh4-h3+ Ke3-e4 d3-d2 Bf7xe6+ Kh7-h8) +3.23/3} 63. Kd2
{(Ke3-d2) -0.33/3} Rh4 {(Rh3-h4 Bf7xe6+ Kh7-g6 Kd2xd3) +0.43/3} 64. Ke3
{(Kd2-e3) 0.00/3} Rh3+ {(Rh4-h3+ Ke3-e4 d3-d2 Bf7xe6+ Kh7-h8) +3.95/3} 65.
Kd2 {(Ke3-d2) 0.00/3} Kh8 {(Kh7-h8 g5-g6 Rh3xh2+ Kd2xd3) +0.63/3} 66. g6
{(g5-g6) -0.14/3} e5 {(e6-e5 Kd2-c3 e5-e4) +2.17/3} 67. g7+ {(g6-g7+)
+0.11/3} Kxg7 {(Kh8xg7 Bf7-e6+ Kg7-f6 Be6xh3) -2.25/3} 68. Be6+ {(Bf7-e6+)
+0.05/3} Kg6 {(Kg7-g6 Be6xh3 Rf8-f2+ Kd2-c1) -0.18/3} 69. Bxh3 {(Be6xh3)
+0.04/3} Rf2+ {(Rf8-f2+ Kd2xd3 Rf2-f3+ Kd3-e4 Rf3xh3) -0.14/3} 70. Kxd3
{(Kd2xd3) +0.03/3} Rf3+ {(Rf2-f3+ Kd3-e4 Rf3xh3 Ke4xe5) 0.00/3} 71. Ke4
{(Kd3-e4) +0.02/3} Rxh3 {(Rf3xh3 Ke4xe5) 0.00/3} 72. Kxe5 {(Ke4xe5)
+0.02/3} Rxh2 {(Rh3xh2 Rc7-c5 Rh2-e2+ Ke5-f4) 0.00/3} 73. Rc3 {(Rc7-c3)
+0.05/3} Rh5+ {(Rh2-h5+ Ke5-e6 Rh5-h1 Rc3-c5) 0.00/3} 74. Ke6 {(Ke5-e6)
+0.08/3} Rh6 {(Rh5-h6 Rc3-g3+ Kg6-h7+ Ke6-f7 Rh6-h2) 0.00/3} 75. Rg3+
{(Rc3-g3+) +0.14/3} Kh7+ {(Kg6-h7+ Ke6-f7 Rh6-a6 Rg3-h3+ Ra6-h6) 0.00/3}
76. Kf5 {(Ke6-f5) +0.15/3} Rh5+ {(Rh6-h5+ Kf5-g4 Rh5-h6 Kg4-f3) 0.00/3} 77.
Rg5 {(Rg3-g5) +0.13/3} Rxg5+ {(Rh5xg5+ Kf5xg5 Kh7-g8 Kg5-g6 Kg8-f8 Kg6-h7)
0.00/3} 78. Kxg5 {(Kf5xg5) +0.07/3 Insufficient material Insufficient
material} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Uri Blass »

Rybka won at depth 4.


[pgn][Event "Uri1.at"]
[Site "DESKTOP-7QE6S12"]
[Date "2021.04.29"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Rybka 2.3.2a 64 bit"]
[Black "Stockfish_21022619_x64_avx2"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2200"]
[Time "20:08:38"]
[WhiteElo "2200"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "115"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. Nf3 {(Ng1-f3) -5.00/4} Nf6 {(Ng8-f6 e2-e3 Nb8-c6) +13.28/4} 2. Nc3
{(Nb1-c3) -5.06/4} Nc6 {(Nb8-c6 e2-e4) +13.36/4} 3. a3 {(a2-a3) -5.37/4} e6
{(e7-e6 a3-a4) +13.44/4} 4. e3 {(e2-e3) -5.33/4} Be7 {(Bf8-e7 e3-e4 Ke8-f8)
+13.82/4} 5. Bd3 {(Bf1-d3) -5.30/4} O-O {(O-O Nf3-d4) +12.98/4} 6. O-O
{-5.33/4 (O-O)} a6 {(a7-a6 Nf3-d4 Nc6xd4 e3xd4 c7-c6) +12.77/4} 7. b4
{(b2-b4) -5.25/4} a5 {(a6-a5 b4xa5) +13.07/4} 8. b5 {(b4-b5) -4.58/4} Na7
{(Nc6-a7 Rf1-e1 b7-b6) +12.78/4} 9. Bb2 {(Bc1-b2) -4.64/4} b6 {(b7-b6
Nf3-d4 g7-g6) +12.55/4} 10. Ne5 {(Nf3-e5) -4.72/4} d6 {(d7-d6 Ne5-c6 Na7xc6
b5xc6) +12.55/4} 11. Nc4 {(Ne5-c4) -4.93/4} Qe8 {(Qd8-e8 Ra1-e1 Na7xb5
Nc3xb5) +13.17/4} 12. a4 {(a3-a4) -4.79/4} d5 {(d6-d5 Nc4-e5 g7-g6)
+12.46/4} 13. Ne5 {(Nc4-e5) -4.84/4} Bd6 {(Be7-d6 Ra1-e1) +16.96/4} 14. f4
{(f2-f4) -5.01/4} Bb7 {(Bc8-b7 Ra1-e1 g7-g6) +12.54/4} 15. Be2 {(Bd3-e2)
-5.00/4} h6 {(h7-h6 Ra1-e1) +12.46/4} 16. Bf3 {(Be2-f3) -4.92/4} g5 {(g7-g5
Ra1-a2 g5xf4) +12.44/4} 17. Ne2 {(Nc3-e2) -5.42/4} Bb4 {(Bd6-b4 f4xg5)
+12.69/4} 18. d3 {(d2-d3) -5.27/4} Bd2 {(Bb4-d2 f4xg5 Bd2xe3+ Kg1-h1 h6xg5)
+13.63/4} 19. Kf2 {(Kg1-f2) -4.70/4} Qd8 {(Qe8-d8 Ra1-a2 Qd8-d6) +12.94/4}
20. Rad1 {(Ra1-d1) -4.70/4} Bb4 {(Bd2-b4 f4xg5 h6xg5) +13.00/4} 21. Kg3
{(Kf2-g3) -4.87/4} Qd6 {(Qd8-d6) +16.96/4} 22. h3 {(h2-h3 Bb4-c5) -5.35/4}
Rae8 {(Ra8-e8) +16.12/4} 23. Kh2 {(Kg3-h2) -5.40/4} Rd8 {(Re8-d8 f4xg5
h6xg5) +12.77/4} 24. g3 {(g2-g3) -5.34/4} Nc8 {(Na7-c8 f4xg5 h6xg5)
+12.77/4} 25. fxg5 {(f4xg5) -5.39/4} Nh7 {(Nf6-h7 g5xh6 Nh7-f6 Bf3-h1)
+11.28/4} 26. Ng4 {(Ne5-g4) -3.00/4} Nxg5 {(Nh7xg5 Ne2-d4 Ng5xf3+ Rf1xf3
Nc8-e7) +11.89/4} 27. Nf6+ {(Ng4-f6+) -2.50/4} Kg7 {(Kg8-g7 Nf6-g4+ f7-f6
Ne2-d4 Nc8-e7) +12.75/4} 28. Ne8+ {(Nf6-e8+) -2.15/4} Kh7 {(Kg7-h7 Ne8xd6
Ng5xf3+ Rf1xf3 Nc8xd6) +4.78/4} 29. Nxd6 {(Ne8xd6) -2.18/4} Bxd6 {(Bb4xd6
Bb2-f6) +5.16/4} 30. Bh5 {(Bf3-h5) -1.55/4} f5 {(f7-f5 Ne2-d4 Nc8-e7)
+5.19/4} 31. Nf4 {(Ne2-f4) -1.47/4} e5 {(e6-e5 Bh5-g6+ Kh7-h8) +5.34/4} 32.
Ng6 {(Nf4-g6) -1.12/4} Rde8 {(Rd8-e8 Ng6xf8+ Re8xf8 Rd1-e1 Nc8-e7) +4.25/4}
33. h4 {(h3-h4) -1.01/4} Rg8 {(Rf8-g8 h4xg5 Rg8xg6 Rf1xf5) +2.25/4} 34.
Rxf5 {(Rf1xf5) -1.04/4} Rxg6 {(Rg8xg6 h4xg5 h6xg5 Rf5-f7+ Kh7-h6) +0.99/4}
35. hxg5 {(h4xg5) -1.01/4} Reg8 {(Re8-g8 Bb2xe5 Bd6xe5 Bh5xg6+ Kh7xg6)
+1.18/4} 36. Bxe5 {(Bb2xe5) -0.34/4} Bxe5 {(Bd6xe5 Bh5xg6+ Kh7xg6 Rf5xe5
h6xg5) +1.71/4} 37. Bxg6+ {(Bh5xg6+) -0.04/4} Kxg6 {(Kh7xg6 Rf5xe5 h6xg5
Rd1-f1) +1.42/4} 38. Rxe5 {(Rf5xe5) +0.16/4} hxg5 {(h6xg5 Rd1-f1 Nc8-d6
Re5-e6+ Kg6-h5) +0.97/4} 39. Rf1 {(Rd1-f1) +0.10/4} Rh8+ {(Rg8-h8+ Kh2-g1
Nc8-d6 Re5-e6+ Kg6-h5 Rf1-f6) -0.14/4} 40. Kg2 {(Kh2-g2) +0.12/4} Rh6
{(Rh8-h6 Re5-e6+ Kg6-g7 Re6xh6 Kg7xh6) -0.98/4} 41. Re6+ {(Re5-e6+)
+1.02/4} Kg7 {(Kg6-g7 Re6xh6 Kg7xh6 Rf1-f7) -1.33/4} 42. Rxh6 {(Re6xh6)
+1.49/4} Kxh6 {(Kg7xh6 Rf1-f7 Kh6-h5 Rf7xc7) -2.27/4} 43. Rf7 {(Rf1-f7)
+1.86/4} Nd6 {(Nc8-d6 Rf7xc7 Kh6-h5 Rc7-d7) -1.78/4} 44. Rxc7 {(Rf7xc7)
+2.04/4} Ba8 {(Bb7-a8) -1.89/4} 45. Kf3 {(Kg2-f3) +2.16/4} Kg6 {(Kh6-g6
Rc7-d7 Nd6-b7 e3-e4) -2.92/4} 46. Rd7 {(Rc7-d7) +2.12/4} Nf7 {(Nd6-f7
Rd7-a7 Nf7-e5+ Kf3-e2 Kg6-f5 Ra7xa8) -5.25/4} 47. Ra7 {(Rd7-a7) +4.40/4}
Ne5+ {(Nf7-e5+ Kf3-e2 Kg6-f6 Ra7xa8) -5.11/4} 48. Ke2 {(Kf3-e2) +4.42/4}
Kf5 {(Kg6-f5 Ra7xa8 Ne5-d7 Ra8-d8 Kf5-e6) -5.57/4} 49. Rxa8 {(Ra7xa8)
+4.51/4} Kg4 {(Kf5-g4 Ra8-d8 Ne5-f7 Rd8xd5 Kg4xg3) -5.75/4} 50. Rd8
{(Ra8-d8) +5.41/4} Nf7 {(Ne5-f7 Rd8-b8 Kg4-h3 Rb8xb6) -6.21/4} 51. Rxd5
{(Rd8xd5) +5.77/4} Kxg3 {(Kg4xg3 c2-c4 g5-g4 c4-c5) -7.09/4} 52. Rf5
{(Rd5-f5) +7.16/4} Nd6 {(Nf7-d6 Rf5xg5+ Kg3-h4 Rg5-g1 Kh4-h5) -8.03/4} 53.
Rxg5+ {(Rf5xg5+) +7.27/4} Kh4 {(Kg3-h4 Rg5-d5 Kh4-g4 Rd5xd6) -10.01/4} 54.
Rg6 {(Rg5-g6) +7.46/4} Nf5 {(Nd6-f5 c2-c4 Nf5-d4+ e3xd4) -8.78/4} 55. Rxb6
{(Rg6xb6) +8.25/4} Nxe3 {(Nf5xe3 Ke2xe3 Kh4-h5 c2-c4 Kh5-g5) -8.81/4} 56.
Kxe3 {(Ke2xe3) +11.66/4} Kh5 {(Kh4-h5 Rb6-f6 Kh5-g4 Rf6-a6) -58.81/4} 57.
Kf4 {(Ke3-f4) +M2/3} Kh4 {(Kh5-h4 Rb6-h6+) -M1/4} 58. Rh6# {(Rb6-h6+)
+M1/3} 1-0
[/pgn]
User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 4889
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by MikeB »

Uri Blass wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:52 pm <snip>

Is there some interface that support it so I get only games when engines A,B,C play without queen d1 against engines D,E,F at some time control without resigning

<snip>
relatively simple using the cutechess client ...
Image
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12541
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: what is the maximal engine rating that you can win without a queen?

Post by Dann Corbit »

I do not think that the question has an answer.
Suppose I play only one game, or suppose I play a thousand. The chances of winning a game are not the same.
In any case, for any given Elo pair, the answer is probability based and is also a function of the game count and not just the Elo difference.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.